StarTrek: "Undiscovered Country" - best Trek movie of all time?

[Megatron96]

Is it possible that "Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country" is the best Star Trek Original Series movie, and not "Star Trek: Wrath of Khan," as most people have always thought?

Seriously important stuff we're thinking about over here . . .

[Hammock Parties]

Directed by the same guy, Nick Meyer.

He knows his shit. And Shakespeare.

And he wrote the screenplay for Star Trek IV.

Basically, Nick is a genius.

[mnchiefsguy]

I like both Star Trek II and Star Trek VI, but I would have to give the edge to Wrath of Khan...too many classic moments.

[Frazod]

Star Trek II. VI is really good, as is First Contact, but II is pretty much untouchable. Best villain, great special effects that still hold up today, and it also saved the franchise; another outing like the first movie would pretty much been the end of it, at least for a long time. Imagine a world where there was no Next Generation or Deep Space Nine, and instead we went straight into the Jar Jar Abrams reboot. *shudder*

[Deberg_1990]

Khan beats it, but Undiscovered Country is still very, very good.

Christopher Plummer created a pretty good villain too.

[Frazod]

What would have been the best part of Undiscovered County sadly never happened. Meyer wanted the Valeris character to be Saavik, but Roddenberry shot it down. That would have made her betrayal of Kirk and Spock far more poignant.

[Drexl Spivey]

Originally Posted by Frazod

What would have been the best part of Undiscovered County sadly never happened. Meyer wanted the Valeris character to be Saavik, but Roddenberry shot it down. That would have made her betrayal of Kirk and Spock far more poignant.

Interesting......never heard that before. II is my favorite but VI is definitely my #2. I loved the space battle at the end of VI and always preferred the Klingons as bad guys!

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Frazod

What would have been the best part of Undiscovered County sadly never happened. Meyer wanted the Valeris character to be Saavik, but Roddenberry shot it down. That would have made her betrayal of Kirk and Spock far more poignant.

I did not know that. That would've been really good. Wonder why GRod shot the idea down?

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I did not know that. That would've been really good. Wonder why GRod shot the idea down?

It seems like towards the end of his life, Roddenberry was far more of a hindrance than a help; a sick, cranky old man trying to hold onto all the creative power of his baby even as his ability do to continued to slip away.

From Wikipedia:

Star Trek's creator, Gene Roddenberry, who wielded significant influence despite his ill health, hated the script. Meyer's first meeting with Roddenberry resulted in Meyer storming out of the room within five minutes. As with Meyer's previous Star Trek film (The Wrath of Khan), the script had strong military overtones, with a naval theme present throughout. Far from being idealized, the characters were shown as bigoted and flawed. In contrast to Roddenberry's vision of the future, Meyer thought there was no evidence that bigotry would disappear by the 23rd century. When Roddenberry protested about the villainization of Saavik, Meyer replied that "I created Saavik. She was not Gene's. If he doesn't like what I plan on doing with her, maybe he should give back the money he's made off my films. Maybe then I'll care what he has to say." After the stormy first meeting, a group including Meyer, Roddenberry, and producer Ralph Winter discussed the revised draft. Roddenberry would voice his disapproval of elements of the script line by line, and he and Meyer would square off about them while Winter took notes. Overall, the tone of the meeting was conciliatory, but the producers ultimately ignored many of Roddenberry's concerns. By February 13, 1991, the film was officially put into production with the agreement it would be in theaters by the end of the year.

From the IMDb trivia page:

Nicholas Meyer met with Gene Roddenberry following a rough cut screening, to fulfill Roddenberry's role as creative consultant. Roddenberry, who was in failing health at the time, was bound to a wheelchair, and had to be hooked up to an oxygen tank. Despite his frailty, Roddenberry demanded certain cuts to the film and, according to Meyer, engaged him in a heated argument. Roddenberry died several days after the meeting, and Meyer has expressed deep regret over his behavior in the meeting, not realizing just how sick Roddenberry really was at the time.

Valeris was originally written to be Saavik, Spock's trainee from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982), Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (1984) and Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986) lending greater impact to her character's betrayal. However, Gene Roddenberry objected to the character's actions, ending up in a battle with Nicholas Meyer (who believed the character Saavik was his to do with as he pleased). Roddenberry won the dispute and the character was rewritten into Valeris, who is played by Kim Cattrall. Cattrall wanted to play a different character rather than be the third incarnation of Saavik, following Kirstie Alley and Robin Curtis. Meyer had originally wanted Cattrall to play Saavik back in 1982, but scheduling conflicts prevented her from working on Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (1984), as she was filming Police Academy (1984) at the time. She initially turned down the role of Valeris, thinking she was to play Saavik. Upon finding out she was to play a new character, she agreed. Cattrall also designed her own hairstyle for the role of Valeris, and also came up with the idea to completely shave off her sideburns in order to more prominently show her Vulcan ears.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Frazod

It seems like towards the end of his life, Roddenberry was far more of a hindrance than a help; a sick, cranky old man trying to hold onto all the creative power of his baby even as his ability do to continued to slip away.

From Wikipedia:



From the IMDb trivia page:

Thanks. Great stuff. Gfy.

[Jamie]

1. II - The Wrath of Khan
2. VI - The Undiscovered Country
3. IV - The Voyage Home
4. Beyond
5. First Contact
6. Star Trek (2009)
7. III - The Search for Spock
8. I - TMP
----shit line----
9. Insurrection
10. Generations
11. Nemesis
12. Into Darkness
13. V - The Final Frontier

[alpha_omega]

I have to admit i haven't even seen all of those, but the whale one was definitely the worst one i have seen.

That being said, i haven't seen one better than II.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by alpha_omega

I have to admit i haven't even seen all of those, but the whale one was definitely the worst one i have seen.

That being said, i haven't seen one better than II.

I'm not a big fan of IV either. I mean, it's a fun, well-made movie, but to me it's not really Star Trek; it's more like Star Trek vacations in San Francisco.

Star Trek needs a good villain. A mindless alien probe trying to talk to whales just doesn't cut it.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by Frazod

I'm not a big fan of IV either. I mean, it's a fun, well-made movie, but to me it's not really Star Trek; it's more like Star Trek vacations in San Francisco.

Star Trek needs a good villain. A mindless alien probe trying to talk to whales just doesn't cut it.

Well double dumbass on you!

[Fishpicker]

Originally Posted by Frazod

I'm not a big fan of IV either. I mean, it's a fun, well-made movie, but to me it's not really Star Trek; it's more like Star Trek vacations in San Francisco.

Star Trek needs a good villain. A mindless alien probe trying to talk to whales just doesn't cut it.

my favorite part of IV... as soon as Sulu gets some cash, he decides to split off from his team and go to the docks to talk to sailors.