EV Cars/Trucks

[notorious]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Offering one at $25k sounds like a good move in the right direction.

Back to the battery exchange thing.

I remember when I would not do that with propane tanks because my cylinders were pretty new (they have a date code) and didn't want an old piece of crap in exchange.

For the last few years I could care less and only care about it being full. The exchange is fully automated.

I can see that same attitude carrying over to EV batteries. You pull into a quick change place and snap, $20 and they swap in a fully charged battery in a few minutes.

This would make longer trips possible again without long charging delays.

It's the only way it will work.

Can't overcome the physics of charging with the current way of doing things.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by notorious

It's the only way it will work.

Can't overcome the physics of charging with the current way of doing things.

I agree, it makes so much sense.

If you are doing a regular daily commute the current system seems adequate, but anything too much beyond that seems like a gamble.

Read a story the other day about a guy that rented a Hyundai EV if I remember correctly. He had a heck of a time on a fairly short trip and the charger plug would not fit his vehicle once he found a place to charge it.

I would think they would make that universal, like the gas nozzles.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I agree, it makes so much sense.

If you are doing a regular daily commute the current system seems adequate, but anything too much beyond that seems like a gamble.

Read a story the other day about a guy that rented a Hyundai EV if I remember correctly. He had a heck of a time on a fairly short trip and the charger plug would not fit his vehicle once he found a place to charge it.

I would think they would make that universal, like the gas nozzles.

Who is they?



Elon Musk is going to play nice?

The Federal Government is going to dictate a standard?

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan

Who is they?



Elon Musk is going to play nice?

The Federal Government is going to dictate a standard?

Yes

[RedRaider56]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I agree, it makes so much sense.

If you are doing a regular daily commute the current system seems adequate, but anything too much beyond that seems like a gamble.

Read a story the other day about a guy that rented a Hyundai EV if I remember correctly. He had a heck of a time on a fairly short trip and the charger plug would not fit his vehicle once he found a place to charge it.

I would think they would make that universal, like the gas nozzles.

Most EV cars being sold in the US are now moving to the Tesla charging plug style. Today, customers are getting an adapter with their car, which will allow them to use Tesla charging stations.

In 2025, Ford & GM cars will be able to use the Tesla charging stations without an adapter.

If you're looking to buy an EV, hold off until 2025 if you can. Charging Life will get easier.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by RedRaider56

Most EV cars being sold in the US are now moving to the Tesla charging plug style. Today, customers are getting an adapter with their car, which will allow them to use Tesla charging stations.

In 2025, Ford & GM cars will be able to use the Tesla charging stations without an adapter.

If you're looking to buy an EV, hold off until 2025 if you can. Charging Life will get easier.

That sounds like progress!

In a few years the infrastructure will probably be refined much more than it is today.

I don't see an EV in my future as buying a Hybrid was a giant leap for me but it has been very rewarding with 52 mpg.

I would like to drive one someday though.

[ScareCrowe]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Offering one at $25k sounds like a good move in the right direction.

Back to the battery exchange thing.

I remember when I would not do that with propane tanks because my cylinders were pretty new (they have a date code) and didn't want an old piece of crap in exchange.

For the last few years I could care less and only care about it being full. The exchange is fully automated.

I can see that same attitude carrying over to EV batteries. You pull into a quick change place and snap, $20 and they swap in a fully charged battery in a few minutes.

This would make longer trips possible again without long charging delays.

Problem is a propane tank is a way different scenario than an EV battery. Hell you said you didn't want to trade in tanks because the ones you had were less scratched than the ones you were going to get back. They were going to work exactly the same, but just them looking nice made you want to hold on to them.

Batteries however, unlike tanks, degrade over time. The old scratched up propane tank you were going to get in return was going to hold just as much propane as the newer ones you traded in. And tanks tend to not really die like batteries do. Now you're trading in a brand new battery & could get one that may have been in use a while & down to 80% capacity of a new one.

Furthermore what happens when that battery completely dies & needs to be replaced, is it the responsibility of the car owner or the owner of the "battery changing station" to replace it? If it's on the shop, these shops are in essence providing EV owners with free battery replacements for life. If not you could trade in a brand new battery for one that dies on you & now you have to replace a battery in a brand new car. In the rare instance a tank would die, you just pull it out of your grill & reexchange it. The company won't notice it's not working until they go to refill it & then they will fix it. I'm thinking when you have to tow your EV back to get the dead battery replaced they're going to realize somethings wrong with it.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

Problem is a propane tank is a way different scenario than an EV battery. Hell you said you didn't want to trade in tanks because the ones you had were less scratched than the ones you were going to get back. They were going to work exactly the same, but just them looking nice made you want to hold on to them.

Batteries however, unlike tanks, degrade over time. The old scratched up propane tank you were going to get in return was going to hold just as much propane as the newer ones you traded in. And tanks tend to not really die like batteries do. Now you're trading in a brand new battery & could get one that may have been in use a while & down to 80% capacity of a new one.

Furthermore what happens when that battery completely dies & needs to be replaced, is it the responsibility of the car owner or the owner of the "battery changing station" to replace it? If it's on the shop, these shops are in essence providing EV owners with free battery replacements for life. If not you could trade in a brand new battery for one that dies on you & now you have to replace a battery in a brand new car. In the rare instance a tank would die, you just pull it out of your grill & reexchange it. The company won't notice it's not working until they go to refill it & then they will fix it. I'm thinking when you have to tow your EV back to get the dead battery replaced they're going to realize somethings wrong with it.

Batteries don't really "die" like that, the charge they can hold just keeps decreasing until the effective range makes the car less usable. So you could have a battery at the end of its life and just charge it enough to get to the battery swap station and leave them with a bad battery. The battery swap company would need to factor the cost of buying new batteries to replace bad ones into the prices they charge for the battery swap service.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Batteries don't really "die" like that, the charge they can hold just keeps decreasing until the effective range makes the car less usable. So you could have a battery at the end of its life and just charge it enough to get to the battery swap station and leave them with a bad battery. The battery swap company would need to factor the cost of buying new batteries to replace bad ones into the prices they charge for the battery swap service.

I can see them having a test system or analyzer to make this kind of swap fair to both parties. I know on lead/acid batteries it exists but am not familiar with the technology on these new batteries.
I recently bought a lithium battery for the Jetski and it is much different.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I can see them having a test system or analyzer to make this kind of swap fair to both parties. I know on lead/acid batteries it exists but am not familiar with the technology on these new batteries.
I recently bought a lithium battery for the Jetski and it is much different.

Yeah, you can test the health of batteries. On cars.com, they report the battery health for the used EVs.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I can see them having a test system or analyzer to make this kind of swap fair to both parties. I know on lead/acid batteries it exists but am not familiar with the technology on these new batteries.
I recently bought a lithium battery for the Jetski and it is much different.

For this system to work, the car owner would no longer own the batteries at all.

Either the battery swap company would have to own them. Or some third party would.

The car owner would pay a rental or lease on the batteries. So if they got bad batteries, it wouldn't matter as far as swapping. Now it would suck as far as not getting the range you were promised.

Maybe the lease could include a guarantee that the swapped in batteries will be so good, or so good on average over the course of the year.

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I can see them having a test system or analyzer to make this kind of swap fair to both parties. I know on lead/acid batteries it exists but am not familiar with the technology on these new batteries.
I recently bought a lithium battery for the Jetski and it is much different.

I can imagine the theft rings of people stealing batteries will pop up and sell them on the black market or swap n shops. Or people with evs renting a car and swapping batteries. I am sure more rental companies will keep getting rid of their stocks.

Will be interesting to see how they go about the battery issue and swapping.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by Valiant

I can imagine the theft rings of people stealing batteries will pop up and sell them on the black market or swap n shops. Or people with evs renting a car and swapping batteries. I am sure more rental companies will keep getting rid of their stocks.

Will be interesting to see how they go about the battery issue and swapping.

Yea, there would probably have to be a way to electronically scan to make sure the car owner returned the same batteries that were put in.

But I'm not very convinced battery swapping is ever going to be a thing. Super fast charging that gets you ~80% or something in a reasonable time strikes me as more likely.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan

Yea, there would probably have to be a way to electronically scan to make sure the car owner returned the same batteries that were put in.



But I'm not very convinced battery swapping is ever going to be a thing. Super fast charging that gets you ~80% or something in a reasonable time strikes me as more likely.

Agreed. Charging won't ever be as fast as fueling, but they're getting it fast enough to be bearable for most people.