Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[VAChief]

I guess I'm missing the fascination with Yelich. He is a nice player, but considering what he will cost will he change our lineup much? I don't think so, unless you are adding another bat. To me he is an Andy Van Slyke, when we need a Jack Clark.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I guess I'm missing the fascination with Yelich. He is a nice player, but considering what he will cost will he change our lineup much? I don't think so, unless you are adding another bat. To me he is an Andy Van Slyke, when we need a Jack Clark.

Holy shit you're old. and so am I.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Holy shit you're old. and so am I.

I prefer "seasoned."

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I guess I'm missing the fascination with Yelich. He is a nice player, but considering what he will cost will he change our lineup much? I don't think so, unless you are adding another bat. To me he is an Andy Van Slyke, when we need a Jack Clark.

Depends a little on how you view Yelich.

If you get Yelich out of Miami, can he be a 25 HR hitter? That's not an impossible argument to make. His batted ball data and basic H/R splits suggest a guy that just isn't a great fit for his home park. Put him in a more neutral environment and could he find another 5 HRs/season?

If you think he can, then you're looking at a .290/.375/.480 kind of hitter who sprays balls around the park and gets his HRs via liners that just keep going.

That sound like anyone we've had manning the corners lately? You don't have to squint all that hard to see a young Matt Holliday in Christian Yelich. Now Yelich is unlikely to be the raw power specimen that Holliday is but he's gotten bigger as he's aged, for sure. And his frame can still carry more weight.

Take Holliday, make him a plus OFer and 15 SB threat and I'd say you have a damn valuable player on your hands. Now that's obviously a best case scenario, but it's also not what I would call an impossible one.

Personally I'm inclined to agree with you to an extent - I believe Yelich is put to his best use as the 2nd or even 3rd best hitter on a team that features a true run-producer. But I think you're selling him just a touch short, or at least you're selling his potential a bit short.

He could be the best player on a 90 win team fairly easily. Now if that teams going to win in the post-season it will have to have a good, deep staff and a powerful 'pen because it's not going to go all 2011 Cardinals and slug its way through October. But you could build around him.

But personally I'd want to expand on that trade and try desperately to find a way to get Ozuna in it as well. Seems damn near impossible to swing it absent a true crown jewel of a prospect (and with Reyes TJ, we don't have that anymore), but the Marlins are weird; maybe they'd prefer prospect depth and we can offer that in spades.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Depends a little on how you view Yelich.

If you get Yelich out of Miami, can he be a 25 HR hitter? That's not an impossible argument to make. His batted ball data and basic H/R splits suggest a guy that just isn't a great fit for his home park. Put him in a more neutral environment and could he find another 5 HRs/season?

If you think he can, then you're looking at a .290/.375/.480 kind of hitter who sprays balls around the park and gets his HRs via liners that just keep going.

That sound like anyone we've had manning the corners lately? You don't have to squint all that hard to see a young Matt Holliday in Christian Yelich. Now Yelich is unlikely to be the raw power specimen that Holliday is but he's gotten bigger as he's aged, for sure. And his frame can still carry more weight.

Take Holliday, make him a plus OFer and 15 SB threat and I'd say you have a damn valuable player on your hands. Now that's obviously a best case scenario, but it's also not what I would call an impossible one.

Personally I'm inclined to agree with you to an extent - I believe Yelich is put to his best use as the 2nd or even 3rd best hitter on a team that features a true run-producer. But I think you're selling him just a touch short, or at least you're selling his potential a bit short.

He could be the best player on a 90 win team fairly easily. Now if that teams going to win in the post-season it will have to have a good, deep staff and a powerful 'pen because it's not going to go all 2011 Cardinals and slug its way through October. But you could build around him.

But personally I'd want to expand on that trade and try desperately to find a way to get Ozuna in it as well. Seems damn near impossible to swing it absent a true crown jewel of a prospect (and with Reyes TJ, we don't have that anymore), but the Marlins are weird; maybe they'd prefer prospect depth and we can offer that in spades.

I'm fine with adding him, I just don't want to overvalue him because we have this gaping hole in the middle of our lineup. Of the two I would rather have Ozuna if that is all they are going to add. The thing I do like about Yelich is that he gives us more balance (left vs. right).

He is a good player that could be even better. It all comes down to who they give up for him for me. As you pointed out a week or so ago, the way to go for us is probably multiple deals. Playing around the edge will probably just swap out WAR results for us. We haven't proven to be very adept at trading for pieces that actually set us up for improving areas of need (at least lately).

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Depends a little on how you view Yelich.

If you get Yelich out of Miami, can he be a 25 HR hitter? That's not an impossible argument to make. His batted ball data and basic H/R splits suggest a guy that just isn't a great fit for his home park. Put him in a more neutral environment and could he find another 5 HRs/season?

If you think he can, then you're looking at a .290/.375/.480 kind of hitter who sprays balls around the park and gets his HRs via liners that just keep going.

That sound like anyone we've had manning the corners lately? You don't have to squint all that hard to see a young Matt Holliday in Christian Yelich. Now Yelich is unlikely to be the raw power specimen that Holliday is but he's gotten bigger as he's aged, for sure. And his frame can still carry more weight.

Take Holliday, make him a plus OFer and 15 SB threat and I'd say you have a damn valuable player on your hands. Now that's obviously a best case scenario, but it's also not what I would call an impossible one.

Personally I'm inclined to agree with you to an extent - I believe Yelich is put to his best use as the 2nd or even 3rd best hitter on a team that features a true run-producer. But I think you're selling him just a touch short, or at least you're selling his potential a bit short.

He could be the best player on a 90 win team fairly easily. Now if that teams going to win in the post-season it will have to have a good, deep staff and a powerful 'pen because it's not going to go all 2011 Cardinals and slug its way through October. But you could build around him.

But personally I'd want to expand on that trade and try desperately to find a way to get Ozuna in it as well. Seems damn near impossible to swing it absent a true crown jewel of a prospect (and with Reyes TJ, we don't have that anymore), but the Marlins are weird; maybe they'd prefer prospect depth and we can offer that in spades.

yeah, I just don't see Yelich as a stand alone playmaker like Stanton. If Miami didn't want a team to take on $250 million, I'd consider some kind of combination of Reyes/Wacha/grichuk/Piscotty/Sierra/Bader/AA pitcher for Stanton but not Yelich. We would still need another "Yelich" type of player to make us legitmate contenders again. We trade all of our top pitching talent to fix our offense, we don't achieve that goal.

I just don't see how we can do more than one trade and keep enough talent for the future. We need to buy another bat in FA.

Look at our crap rotation without Reyes. How can Waino pitch in MLB with a 88 mph fastball and a curve that doesn't bite like it use to? Wacha can't be trusted after the 2nd time through the lineup. We bought a pitcher that we are hoping can pitch to potential to replace Leake. That leaves Martinez and Weaver. Pitching help is not arriving until 2019/20, correct? Flaherty will replace Waino or some other faltering pitcher but then that's it for 2018.

[DJ's left nut]

Can't count on Reyes in the rotation this year. I'd be surprised if he didn't spend most of the year in the bullpen.

Again, we have to stop viewing Reyes as a 101 mph sure thing. He can't be - the arm will explode again. I will be ****ing livid if he's still throwing 100 coming off this surgery - it's just stupid. His body isn't built to do it. And coming off the injury, he'll need time to regain his feel and stamina; all pitchers returning from TJ tend to spend the first year knocking off the rust.

Is a rusty Reyes with 97 mph heat really someone that you can say is an adequate lynchpin to this rotation? No, not at all.

I don't want to move the guy, but I think you're overvaluing based on what you wanted him to be rather than what you can realistically expect him to be going forward.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Can't count on Reyes in the rotation this year. I'd be surprised if he didn't spend most of the year in the bullpen.

Again, we have to stop viewing Reyes as a 101 mph sure thing. He can't be - the arm will explode again. I will be ****ing livid if he's still throwing 100 coming off this surgery - it's just stupid. His body isn't built to do it. And coming off the injury, he'll need time to regain his feel and stamina; all pitchers returning from TJ tend to spend the first year knocking off the rust.

Is a rusty Reyes with 97 mph heat really someone that you can say is an adequate lynchpin to this rotation? No, not at all.

I don't want to move the guy, but I think you're overvaluing based on what you wanted him to be rather than what you can realistically expect him to be going forward.

best option to me seems to be long relief in the bullpen to back up Waino or Wacha when they fail.

Maybe they bank innings for the end of the year.

There are no guarantees with TJ but >95% are real close to their old selfs after two years. For me, I'd like to see us compete in 2019.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

best option to me seems to be long relief in the bullpen to back up Waino or Wacha when they fail.

Maybe they bank innings for the end of the year.

There are no guarantees with TJ but >95% are real close to their old selfs after two years. For me, I'd like to see us compete in 2019.

Those guys didn't blow their arms out because their mechanics were overloading their back half.

Alex Reyes made a noticable mechanical change that took him from 96-97 mph to 101. And by bringing his arm through later to find more velocity, he put more strain on his elbow and blew it up.

When I speak to rust I speak generally. When I speak to his stuff I'm speaking directly to Alex Reyes. You can either get 3-4 years of him throwing 100 mph or you can get 10 of him throwing 96-97. The movement and the breaking stuff is good enough for him to work and thrive at 96-97 but he'll need to re-learn how to succeed at those speeds.

[The Franchise]

This can obviously change as it goes, but Giants expect a Stanton decision by the end of the week. I'm hearing they continue to view Dodgers, not Cardinals, as biggest threat.

— Alex Pavlovic (@PavlovicNBCS) December 6, 2017

[DJ's left nut]

If the Dodgers wanted to do it, it would be done by now. But they don't have a clear path to get under the luxury tax because their biggest contracts are either crap (Gonzalez, Kazmir) or Kershaw.

This whole deal would've taken 20 minutes if the Dodgers were really in the mix, IMO. They have the cash, they have the prospects and Stanton wants to be there. There's no 'lurking' Dodgers.

They gain nothing by slow-playing this. I think this is wishful thinking by the Stanton camp.

[The Franchise]

Oh I don't expect the Dodgers to end up with Stanton at all.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

It's a better possibility than STL. He doesn't want to be here and the rumoured players they have offered is a damn joke.

[Prison Bitch]

x-World Series star is fighting the California wildfires
12/7/2017, 2:22:15 PM · by DFG · 8 replies
Big League Stew via Yahoo ^ | 12/07/2017 | Liz Roscher

Baseball players don’t always go into broadcasting or managing after their MLB career is finished. Former St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Anthony Reyes took a different path, deciding to pick up a hose and become a firefighter in Los Angeles County. And as an L.A. County firefighter, he’s now reportedly on the front lines of the California wildfires, working with many others to try and contain them.



https://sports.yahoo.com/ex-world-se...175236439.html

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Oh I don't expect the Dodgers to end up with Stanton at all.

Rumors are LA is interested now.