Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

We've all seen this show before, by the time the 2018 season rolls around they'll add some back of the bus pieces and tell everyone they were >< this close to getting a star.

No no no no no.

Because that suggests they won't sell the piece they DO manage to get as a star in his own right. I mean shit, you'd have thought Dexter Fowler was a HoFer during the victory parades Mo and Co threw for themselves.

Just you wait - they'll have Greg Holland introduced alongside an artists rendition of his Cooperstown bust.

I said it was a dumb organization but I sold them a little bit short - they're dumb AND predictable.

[oldandslow]

Oh, it's gonna be Holland/Davis and Donaldson, DJ.

Just is.

BTW - if I were running things and Bill would open the wallet --

Stanton
Nicasio
Anthony Swarzack
Tyler Chatwood

...but that is just me.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by oldandslow

Oh, it's gonna be Holland/Davis and Donaldson, DJ.

Just is.

BTW - if I were running things and Bill would open the wallet --

Stanton
Nicasio
Anthony Swarzack
Tyler Chatwood

...but that is just me.

Let's hope they learned their lesson on Brett Cecil. I like trying to sign Nicasio to something friendly with upside performance options that pay him nicely if he succeeds. If you are in contention in July, and if you still need help you can usually get something then as well. I also like taking a chance on the Swarzack and Chatwood. If you can't get Stanton interested in coming to St. Louis, I would prefer Martinez over Donaldson.

[DJ's left nut]

Reports are that Roy Halladay's plane went down in the gulf; identity of the deceased not confirmed but it looks to me like a single-seat ultralight.

Sure would be surprising if someone else was flying his plane. Doesn't look great for Halladay fans/family.

[duncan_idaho]

Cardinals are in line for Comp B picks because they don't draw revenue sharing, right?

If I were the Cardinals, I'd probably focus on the JD Martinez FA race rather than trading for Stanton, and twirl those pieces you're considering moving for Stanton for relievers instead, if you want to maximize return.


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[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Cardinals are in line for Comp B picks because they don't draw revenue sharing, right?

If I were the Cardinals, I'd probably focus on the JD Martinez FA race rather than trading for Stanton, and twirl those pieces you're considering moving for Stanton for relievers instead, if you want to maximize return.

Last year they did not get revenue sharing so correct, Comp B.

Regarding the Stanton/Martinez question, remember that DeWitt is a businessman first. Stanton will sell tickets and Martinez...well he probably won't.

If Martinez doesn't put the Cardinals past the Cubs, the return on the 6/$150 they'll probably have to give him is pretty diminished. Meanwhile if they get Stanton, even if it's not enough to push them past Chicago, the re-creation of the McGwire circus will generate a fair amount of revenue in its own right.

As for purchasing relievers; too volatile in a market that's too focused on them. Middle relievers require 3-4 year deals at $8-10 million/season now and they're only marginally more likely to be truly good than some failed starter you sign for a year and convert. You want to talk market inefficiencies, well relief pitching damn sure ain't it right now.

This organization has done ****-all to re-stock its lineup and has spent the last 5-6 years throwing ridiculous amounts of draft capital and international money at pitching. If they STILL have to go out there and pay retail for bullpen help, they really should just fire everyone. And if they are so gutless that they'd rather trade their high pedigree arms in the high minors for 'known quantities' with 1 or 2 years of control left...well I reiterate, they really should just fire everyone.

If this team can't produce relief pitchers from within the system, then what the hell should we expect them to be able to produce given the amount of resources they've allocated to arms?

And ultimately you could give Matheny a bullpen of Jansen, Kimbrel, Eckersley, Rivera, Gossage, Wagner and Franco and he'd still find a way to have Wacha out there pitching with the bases loaded and nobody out at 105 pitches in October. Because he's a moron.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Last year they did not get revenue sharing so correct, Comp B.



Regarding the Stanton/Martinez question, remember that DeWitt is a businessman first. Stanton will sell tickets and Martinez...well he probably won't.



If Martinez doesn't put the Cardinals past the Cubs, the return on the 6/$150 they'll probably have to give him is pretty diminished. Meanwhile if they get Stanton, even if it's not enough to push them past Chicago, the re-creation of the McGwire circus will generate a fair amount of revenue in its own right.



As for purchasing relievers; too volatile in a market that's too focused on them. Middle relievers require 3-4 year deals at $8-10 million/season now and they're only marginally more likely to be truly good than some failed starter you sign for a year and convert. You want to talk market inefficiencies, well relief pitching damn sure ain't it right now.



This organization has done ****-all to re-stock its lineup and has spent the last 5-6 years throwing ridiculous amounts of draft capital and international money at pitching. If they STILL have to go out there and pay retail for bullpen help, they really should just fire everyone. And if they are so gutless that they'd rather trade their high pedigree arms in the high minors for 'known quantities' with 1 or 2 years of control left...well I reiterate, they really should just fire everyone.



If this team can't produce relief pitchers from within the system, then what the hell should we expect them to be able to produce given the amount of resources they've allocated to arms?



And ultimately you could give Matheny a bullpen of Jansen, Kimbrel, Eckersley, Rivera, Gossage, Wagner and Franco and he'd still find a way to have Wacha out there pitching with the bases loaded and nobody out at 105 pitches in October. Because he's a moron.

Too bad re: Stanton and Martinez. Martinez has proven more durable and offers similar production. Yay, roids . I mean... swing change.

I wouldn't think the Cardinals would use really valuable assets to acquire a reliever or two, but they wouldn't have to.

Shit, with the money they're saving on Stanton, they could do nicely in the second tier of RP.

Nicasio, Joe Smith, etc.

I expect Reyes to pitch some out of the pen, mostly to help control his innings ... but eventually claiming a rotation spot. Thoughts on that?


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[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Too bad re: Stanton and Martinez. Martinez has proven more durable and offers similar production. Yay, roids . I mean... swing change.

I wouldn't think the Cardinals would use really valuable assets to acquire a reliever or two, but they wouldn't have to.

Shit, with the money they're saving on Stanton, they could do nicely in the second tier of RP.

Nicasio, Joe Smith, etc.

I expect Reyes to pitch some out of the pen, mostly to help control his innings ... but eventually claiming a rotation spot. Thoughts on that?


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we are all waiting till 2019 for the new era to begin. Reyes and Flahtery will be ready for a full load. And maybe if we stink it up, meat head is gone?

[raybec 4]

I heard on 610 this morning that Stanton said he's veto a trade to the Cardinals

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

I heard on 610 this morning that Stanton said he's veto a trade to the Cardinals

Can't say I blame him. Who the hell wants to play for Matheny?

[O.city]

I read that and that he was open to coming to stl

Who the hell knows

Gotta keep the powder dry tho

[Pasta Little Brioni]

The local radio buffoons will not shut the **** up about acquiring Stanton. Literally ALL they are talking about.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Can't say I blame him. Who the hell wants to play for Matheny?

yeah, why would he come here to play for that dumb shit.

Then there is what it would take, some kind of Reyes/Diaz/Kelly plus fully take on that contract. And he can opt-out after 3 years. Or if he gets old quick, we are on the hook for $200 million.

I think Reyes should be untouchable. There is just not that many pitchers out there with a #1 pitching ceiling.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

yeah, why would he come here to play for that dumb shit.

Then there is what it would take, some kind of Reyes/Diaz/Kelly plus fully take on that contract. And he can opt-out after 3 years. Or if he gets old quick, we are on the hook for $200 million.

I think Reyes should be untouchable. There is just not that many pitchers out there with a #1 pitching ceiling.

It will not take anywhere approaching Reyes and Kelly to get Stanton and his whole contract. It won't take Reyes OR Kelly. If a team offers to take on his whole deal, there may be one 50-100 ranked prospect in there.

Don't let Mozeliak buffalo you. It is a money question and little more. The first team to volunteer to take on that entire deal will get him.

[VAChief]

Marlins also looking to dump Ziegler. Can you imagine handing Matheny Ryan Franklin 2.0?