Joe Montana is still the greatest ever....

[milkman]

....and nothing that Peyton Manning does will ever change that.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon

as were the Knicks, Pacers, 1996 Sonics, and the Jazz team in 1998 was clearly the superior team...but Jordan single-handedly won that series with Pippen playing with a terrible back injury and being totally ineffective...

Again, Milkman read this piece of literature and get back to me:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/199...IBRY_000017085

Goosebumps.

The 1997-1998 Jazz are an awful example. They only made it to the finals because the Suns, Sonics, Lakers, Blazers, and Rockets fell apart.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by milkman

Good, but not great.

The Lakers, Celtics and 76ers, not to mention the Rockets, were all very good to great at times during the Magic-Bird era.

Sikma, Ellis, The X Man, and Chambers. Those guys pushed the Lakers during their prime of Show Time basketball.

[Hootie]

that Jazz team was still CLEARLY better than the Bulls that year...

they were even favorites to win against the Bulls because of Pippen's back injury...

and Jordan single-handedly won game 6...

if that goes to game 7...

the Bulls lose.

[smittysbar]

Originally Posted by milkman

And as far as I'm concerned, you can go **** yourself in the ass to probe for your brains.

, You let hootie get under your skin, so you start a thread showing your butt hurt. Then you say some pretty foolish shit within the thread.

Let me put it this way, if someone else were to make a thread like this, or post some of the shit you have, you would be one of the first in calling them every belittling word you could think of.

Matter of fact I think someone made a Peyton manning thread and you jumped their ass.

I respect you as a poster but COME ON MAN

[Pioli Zombie]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Wow.

Wilt, the guy who cared so much about stats he decided one year he wanted to lead the league in assists, who asked out of crunch time in Game 7 of the Finals, whose teams were routinely destroyed by Bill Russell's Celtics despite having equivalent talent.

And Magic Johnson was a horrible defensive player. Jordan is probably...no check, is definitely the greatest defensive guard ever in addition to holding the all-time mark for career scoring.

Dude...just, no.

Wilts teams had equivilant talent? Are you insane? Russell had like 6 Hall of Famers playing with him. The only times Wilt had talent around him equal to the Celtics was in 66-67 with the Sixers and he went 68-13 and with the Lakers,where he went 69-13.
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[Hootie]

like I said...

I could post a 50/20 stat line if I played a team of 5th graders.

[Hootie]

Scoonie Penn would be unstoppable in the WNBA.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Oscar Robinson was not as good as Magic.

You cannot take the stats of guys who played in the late 50's to early 60's seriously. No one played defense, teams jacked up shots nonstop (hence huge rebounding numbers), and teams could not have more than 2 black guys...literally.

I honestly would rate them 1a and 1b. Oscar was the first big PG and really started that trend. It is hard to discount averaging a triple double for a whole season.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by milkman

Good, but not great.

The Lakers, Celtics and 76ers, not to mention the Rockets, were all very good to great at times during the Magic-Bird era.

The Rockets made two finals, winning 0. Same thing the Blazers did.

The Celtics and the 76ers were unquestionably great teams.

Let's not forget the ass kicking that Jordan's 90 Bulls laid on the Pistons, or the Lakers.

That Suns team had Kevin Johnson, Charles Barkley, Tom Chambers, Dan Majerle, Cedric Ceballos, Danny Ainge, and a skinny Oliver Miller.

That's a damned good 1-7.

Again, they weren't winning 55 games and ekeing it out against a diluted league, They won 65+ games 3 times.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I honestly would rate them 1a and 1b. Oscar was the first big PG and really started that trend. It is hard to discount averaging a triple double for a whole season.

It is when teams shoot the ball 40 times more a game than they do now.

Read The Book of Basketball.

An example: Chamberlain and Russell, in seasons where they averaged well over 20 RPG, had a lower percentage of their teams rebounds than did Dennis Rodman when getting 15.

You cannot compare eras in basketball.

[Pioli Zombie]

Originally Posted by milkman

You know why I believe these things.

It's because I actually saw these guys play.

You are making judgements on things your dumb ass never ****ing saw. so excuse me if I think your opinion is ****ing useless.

Wait a minute. He never SAW Montana play? How old is this guy?

Some guys you had to see play to appreciate instead of relying on stats. A lot of younger fans only know the Larry Bird fromn the later years when he got bulkier and had the short hair. But if you never saw the younger Larry night after night you would never appreciate how truly great he was.
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['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

Wilts teams had equivilant talent? Are you insane? Russell had like 6 Hall of Famers playing with him. The only times Wilt had talent around him equal to the Celtics was in 66-67 with the Sixers and he went 68-13 and with the Lakers,where he went 69-13.
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Again, like I told Dirk, read The Book of Basketball. There is an entire chapter devoted to Wilt vs. Russell, including an entire section debunking the myth that Russell had better surrounding talent.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Sikma, Ellis, The X Man, and Chambers. Those guys pushed the Lakers during their prime of Show Time basketball.

You guys were geniuses for trading Olden Polynice for Pippen, BTW.

However, Sikma's blonde afroperm is the definition of win.

[tk13]

Hamas just revealed it, but I was about to say I can tell who's read Bill Simmons book in this argument...

[rolstrol]

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

Wilts teams had equivilant talent? Are you insane? Russell had like 6 Hall of Famers playing with him. The only times Wilt had talent around him equal to the Celtics was in 66-67 with the Sixers and he went 68-13 and with the Lakers,where he went 69-13.
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some of the guys who made it into the HoF... made it because of the amount of rings they had... its like they gave congrats to the whole team because of there success they had during that time period..but the one constant was Bill Russell

KC Jones never even average 10 points (the closest was a little over 9)...never made an allstar team... yet made it into the Hall as a player...

Russell even outdid Wilt in college despite playing for an unknown college team... while Wilt played for a big time college... Russell just knew what it took to win...