***Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread ***

[BigRedChief]

2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

Donovan 2B
Nootbar RF
Goldschmidt 1B
Arenado 3B
Wilson Contreras C
Tyler O'Neill LF
Gorman DH
Jordan Walker RF
Tommy Edman SS

2022 Opening Day roster.

Spoiler!

The Cardinals anticipated 26-player Opening Day roster projects as follows, but will not become official until Thursday, March 30:
PITCHERS (13): Jack Flaherty-RHP, Giovanny Gallegos-RHP, Ryan Helsley-RHP, Jordan Hicks-RHP, Steven Matz-LHP, Miles Mikolas-RHP, Jordan Montgomery-LHP, Packy Naughton-LHP, Andre Pallante-RHP, Chris Stratton-RHP, Zack Thompson-LHP, Drew VerHagen-RHP, and Jake Woodford-RHP;
CATCHERS (2): Willson Contreras and Andrew Knizner;
INFIELDERS (6): Nolan Arenado, Brendan Donovan, Tommy Edman, Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Gorman and Taylor Motter;
OUTFIELDERS (5): Alec Burleson, Dylan Carlson, Lars Nootbaar, Tyler O’Neill and Jordan Walker;
INJURED LIST (3): Paul DeJong-INF, Wilking Rodríguez-RHP, Adam Wainwright-RHP.

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

2022 thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...8#post16877588
2021 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124
2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd have kept Cabrera. We got precisely dick for him and he's been very good in Toronto. Y'know, because he's a lefty with ferocious stuff who's gotten jerked around every year here.

We got some never will be late-round catch and throw catcher who last I checked was batting below .200 in A ball for him. That kids gonna be out of baseball in 24 months. We should've kept Genesis. A major league coaching staff's JOB is to turn guys that throw 98 mph with the wrong arm into viable contributors. The organization failed Genesis in a big way.

Relievers are so volatile though that I’m not shedding a tear losing him.

Hope he works out in Toronto but he wasn’t working in STL.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Not expecting much from him, but it's not impossible or unheard of for relievers to debut at 25 and be acceptable.

Gallegos was 25 when he debuted with the Yankees. If Svanson came close to being like Gallegos, I'd consider that a win.

No question - I'm saying 25 in AA is a real problem. So he needs to be in AAA and have pushed his way onto the short list for promotion next season to be any sort of prospective asset long-term.

And like you, I don't think it's impossible; relievers like him come up late and flame out quickly but give you a solid 3-4 years all the time. That's fine. But the time to slow-play the kid is over. And realistically he's a single arm injury from being shot outright. He's working without a net. He can't afford to lose any more development time.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I agree they need to clear a spot for Wynn. What is the date if they call him
Up that it doesn’t start his 6 years of control?

Sounds better than the bag of sunflower seeds I was willing to accept.

Comes and goes about 3 weeks into the season. They can call him up this year (or back in May) and still have had him for 6 years after this one. And they're well past Super 2 status (usually mid-June).

The question is playing time. Edman was activated today. If you're not going to move Edman over to 2b to make a full-time role for Winn, you don't call Winn up. Edman shouldn't play another damn inning in the OF. And you can't move him to 2b either because that puts Gorman at DH (where Walker should be) and they can't put Gorman at DH because they broke Donovan's elbow pretending he's an OFer.

This organization has just ****ed EVERYTHING up this year. It's impossible to manage a roster worse than they have.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No question - I'm saying 25 in AA is a real problem. So he needs to be in AAA and have pushed his way onto the short list for promotion next season to be any sort of prospective asset long-term.

And like you, I don't think it's impossible; relievers like him come up late and flame out quickly but give you a solid 3-4 years all the time. That's fine. But the time to slow-play the kid is over. And realistically he's a single arm injury from being shot outright. He's working without a net. He can't afford to lose any more development time.

I think with all the guys they’ve acquired this week they’ll be fast tracked to Memphis in 2024, so I don’t see him lingering in Springfield unless he’s ass.

[bdj23]

Have they traded Mozeliak to the unemployment line yet?

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by bdj23

Have they traded Mozeliak to the unemployment line yet?

Would rather have a new owner if it meant Mo would still be POBO.

[Rams Fan]

Verlander back to Houston

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd have kept Cabrera. We got precisely dick for him and he's been very good in Toronto. Y'know, because he's a lefty with ferocious stuff who's gotten jerked around every year here.

We got some never will be late-round catch and throw catcher who last I checked was batting below .200 in A ball for him. That kids gonna be out of baseball in 24 months. We should've kept Genesis. A major league coaching staff's JOB is to turn guys that throw 98 mph with the wrong arm into viable contributors. The organization failed Genesis in a big way.

Mo can’t sell his players for shit. DeJong is better than average defensive shortstop with power. He couldn’t sell that better to a team who just likely lost their starting shortstop? Hw would have done just as well to DFA him and signed Mitchell Boggs to a comeback contract. Hope I’m wrong, but this guy seems like a turd.

[Mecca]

It's funny to watch the Mets just give up.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Verlander back to Houston

That needed to fall into place before Flaherty could get moved.

We're down to Flaherty, E-Rod and some guys that are really unlikely to be traded (Snell, Stroman, Cease).

Teams that are shopping for Cease aren't also shopping for Flaherty. The Padres and Cubs added today - they're not moving those two.

So you have 2 or 3 rental pitchers that might also have the stuff to take the ball in a post-season series. And there are still FAR more than 2-3 teams that need at least one of those.

I think the O's will try to get E-Rod where their changes in the park dimensions can help him play up (it's hard to get one out to LF out there) but if they can't, Flaherty's a really sensible fallback.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Mo can’t sell his players for shit. DeJong is better than average defensive shortstop with power. He couldn’t sell that better to a team who just likely lost their starting shortstop? Hw would have done just as well to DFA him and signed Mitchell Boggs to a comeback contract. Hope I’m wrong, but this guy seems like a turd.

I don’t think DeJong has much value beyond possibly getting a meddling reliever at best who is currently on a MLB roster.

He’s too inconsistent.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I don’t think DeJong has much value beyond possibly getting a meddling reliever at best who is currently on a MLB roster.

He’s too inconsistent.

A starting shortstop should at least bring back a top 30 (team) prospect.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

A starting shortstop should at least bring back a top 30 (team) prospect.

Eh. He's about a 2 WAR player over a full season. So over the maybe 30 games that Bichette misses, that's good for maybe a half win.

That's not gonna get you much of anything. Just don't fall in love with prospect lists. A 24 yr old reliever isn't going to be on ANY of those but that doesn't mean he won't have big league value.

His skill set makes him more likely to be a big leaguer at some point than probably 20 guys on that top 30 list. An impact big leaguer? Nope - but fringe middle relievers cost $2 million/season on the open market right now. If you get a guy who pitches 150 big league innings in his entire career, you've won that trade going away.

There just isn't much 'there' here. And Mozeliak has already stated that he's looking for guys who can help in 2024. I hate that, but it's what he's clearly doing. This guy might be a guy who can do that. He's no less likely to help the big club next season than Jake Woodford is next year at least. That's cold comfort, but again, we're talking about 2 months of a guy who's flaws are WELL established.

That's what they cost.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by VAChief

A starting shortstop should at least bring back a top 30 (team) prospect.

His contract has him at negative value; the Cardinals sending cash to the Blue Jays is why the trade was made and the team got anything. Players are viewed at by the dollars they are worth, not the talent they possess.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by VAChief

A starting shortstop should at least bring back a top 30 (team) prospect.

DeJong is playing like a starting shortstop currently but he has proven over the course of 2-3 years that he shouldn't be relied on every day to be that.

Good IF depth to have when he's on and hitting as he also plays good defense, but when he's lost at the plate, it's bad.

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

His contract has him at negative value; the Cardinals sending cash to the Blue Jays is why the trade was made and the team got anything. Players are viewed at by the dollars they are worth, not the talent they possess.

He's provided $85 mil. worth of value on his contract so far, but I guess he's viewed as a liability due to his inconsistency and how great he was at the beginning.

The $ Cardinals gave is probably going to a buyout.