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**BigRedChief** · 03-29-2023, 08:39 AM

2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

2022 Opening Day roster.

Spoiler!

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

DJ's left nut · 07-30-2023, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I’m just not sure how much stock I’d put into his 2nd go around in AA, even at his age. We will find out soon enough what he is though.

Which is why I'm hopeful they'll move him to Memphis to finish up the season. Give him a little AAA and jump start his progression into next season. Get him accustomed to advanced hitters.

I just think you're holding a HS pitcher who developed during COVID to a College Pitcher's development standard. 2 years in AA isn't uncommon for a HS pitcher at all. What's uncommon is how quickly he got to full season ball. For a lot of guys, he'd have not seen AA until his age 22 season because he had a season in RK ball before short season and then A+.

He's on track.

DJ's left nut · 07-30-2023, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Genesis Cabrera has looked dominant so far for us btw. I’m waiting for the disaster outing to happen.

Don't joke about that sort of thing.

Cabrera's 'disaster outings' put people in the hospital. Haven't the Jays had enough of that this week?

KC_Connection · 07-30-2023, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Don't joke about that sort of thing.

Cabrera's 'disaster outings' put people in the hospital. Haven't the Jays had enough of that this week?

Well he got a head start on that hitting Thaiss on the Angels today in the elbow and knocking him out of the game.

DJ's left nut · 07-30-2023, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Well he got a head start on that hitting Thaiss on the Angels today in the elbow and knocking him out of the game.

That's pretty low for a Genesis HBP.

When he gets out of sorts, he's a real safety hazard out there. He doesn't miss in the middle or in the dirt - that balls going high.

DJ's left nut · 07-30-2023, 04:05 PM

Rumors are that both Kloffenstein and Robberse will be assigned to Memphis.

Have to think that means Graceffo is going to get called up to fill one of the rotation spots Montgomery and (eventually) Flaherty are vacating. Liberatore probably gets first crack at the other.

I like being aggressive with both of them.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 07-30-2023, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdj23

Get rid of Flaherty and Mo next please

What would it cost the orioles you think for Flaherty

DJ's left nut · 07-30-2023, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShowtimeSBMVP

What would it cost the orioles you think for Flaherty

I'd gladly take Dylan Beavers for him.

If not him, Hudson Haskin as a true CFer with an advanced approach.

The Orioles have more OF prospects (and IF prospects) than they know what to do with. I'd be happy to grab one of those for Flaherty and I don't think they'd even notice he was gone...

ChiefsCountry · 07-30-2023, 05:23 PM

Cardinals getting the two turds that ran like bitches posting in their thread now.

**BigRedChief** · 07-30-2023, 10:22 PM

Keith Law liked the trades.

The Cardinals were clearly going to sell at the deadline, and they finally began that process on Sunday with a pair of trades, sending left-hander Jordan Montgomery to Texas for two prospects and a relief pitcher, and right-handed Jordan Hicks to Toronto for two prospects. It’s a big deal for a team that rarely finds itself in the position of seller on deadline day, and they did well in both trades, especially the Montgomery swap

Montgomery ranks 17th among all MLB starters and third among lefties in fWAR this year at 2.4, working primarily with three pitches highlighted by a 55 sinker and a changeup that helps the sinker be more effective. He does a lot of things well even though there’s nothing plus here, with low walk rates and enough strikeouts to limit the effect of the hard contact he does surrender. He can be a little homer-prone, which in a small sample — like the two months he’ll give the Rangers — can contribute to short-term volatility, but I’d rather have him than Martín Pérez or Andrew Heaney at the back of my rotation.

Montgomery was one of the best starting pitchers on the trade market, and as a result he netted the Cardinals two very good prospects plus a big-league reliever. Infielder Thomas Saggese has taken a significant step forward at the plate this year with a .314/.380/.514 line for Double-A Frisco as a 21-year-old, already matching his career high in homers. He’s split his time almost evenly between second base and third base and should be able to play either position at an average level. He’s aggressive at the plate but doesn’t miss too often, having some trouble with breaking stuff since he got to Double A. I wrote this winter that I thought he’d peak around 45/50 power, but it looks like I was wrong as he’s already there and should get to at least 55 power. I think he’s a solid regular with a chance to be something like a 4-WAR guy in his best years.

Saggese alone would be a nice return for two months of Montgomery, but the Cards also got right-hander Tekoah Roby, who was pushing to become the Rangers’ top pitching prospect until he hit the injury list in early June with a shoulder issue. Prior to that, he was 92-96 mph with a plus changeup, 50/55 slider, and a yakker of a curveball that he started throwing way more often than the slider, presumably because it was so effective. It’s better control than command right now, although his control keeps improving and he didn’t walk more than one batter in any of his last seven outings. He projects as a No. 2 starter, although there’s a ton of variance here with his shoulder issue this year and an elbow injury in 2021 that didn’t require surgery. He should return before the end of August. The Cardinals also got left-handed reliever John King, who has pitched in the major leagues.

There was talk about the Cardinals working out a long-term extension with Hicks, which would have been incredibly misguided for a reliever who’s already had Tommy John surgery and has consistently had walk rates far worse than the league average, including this year where he’s walked 12.7 percent of batters faced (NL average for relievers: 9.6 percent). Yes, Hicks sits 100-plus mph on his sinker and his sweeper/slider/dojigger gets a ton of whiffs, and that gives him some value because he gets groundballs and misses bats. He also walks too many guys and when he gives up contact it’s generally very hard contact, which is why he’s only been worth a win above replacement in 215 career innings. The Jays did just place closer Jordan Romano on the IL with a back injury, and their right-handed relief corps has been solid but unspectacular. Hicks gives them a different look and someone beyond Trevor Richards who comes into a game with a high probability that he’ll strike out the next batter.

Right-hander Sem Robberse is the better of the two prospects coming to the Cardinals in this trade, although he’s had a disappointing 2023 where his stuff hasn’t progressed at all from last year and is sliding even as the season has gone along. He was signed at 16 out of the Netherlands as a highly projectable pitcher with a great delivery and command for his age, but who was working in the mid-80s. He’s still mostly just 90-92 mph, topping out at 94 mph, with a 55 slider and curveball as well as a solid-average changeup, which should make him a back-end starter … but hitters get on his fastball, hitting nine of the 14 homers he’s allowed this year off the heater, and that propensity for hard contact keeps him from projecting as a starter right now. He won’t turn 22 until October so he’s young enough to find another 2-3 mph somewhere. That might make him a mid-rotation starter, whereas now he might just be an emergency call-up.

Right-hander Adam Kloffenstein repeated Double A this year and had improved results, although his stuff is still average at best and he’s going to have a harder time against even slightly more disciplined hitters. His best pitch, and his most-used one, is his slider, which was below-average last year but is solid-average now with a little better break and more velocity. He’s 90-94 mph now, up a little from 90-92 last year, although the pitch still doesn’t miss any bats and he has below-average command. His changeup is a distant third among his pitches and as a result, he’s had enough of a platoon split to question whether he could start even if his fastball and slider were better. I think he’s got a reliever ceiling, although that could work if moving to shorter outings boosts the velocity and effectiveness of the slider, but the most likely outcome is that he’s an up-and-down guy. For Hicks, who’s been wild when he hasn’t been hurt, this seems like a fair return as well.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2023, 09:40 AM

Cardinals made offers to Montgomery and Flaherty in spring, Hicks recently, but failed to complete any contracts. Flaherty should be the next one dealt.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) July 30, 2023

Marco Polo · 07-31-2023, 02:09 PM

So far I'm digging these trades. Hope they can unload Flaherty, DeJong, clear up some of the OF (not named Walker), Kinzer, and a middle infielder (not named Gorman).

raybec 4 · 07-31-2023, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Cardinals made offers to Montgomery and Flaherty in spring, Hicks recently, but failed to complete any contracts. Flaherty should be the next one dealt.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) July 30, 2023

We shall see, I hope they are able to unload DeJong in the process.

Megatron96 · 07-31-2023, 03:13 PM

They should just go all in and trade for Ohtani.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-31-2023, 03:45 PM

I feel like DeJong has held on longer than Castro at this point. I expect him to die after the 7th inning of some game in 2078.

**BigRedChief** · 07-31-2023, 08:18 PM

Cardinals are actively shopping Edman, Donovan, Carlson, and DeJong. Per Nightengale.

03-29-2023, 08:39 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills BigRedChief's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water	*Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread * 2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official 2023 Opening Day Lineup Spoiler! Donovan 2B Nootbar RF Goldschmidt 1B Arenado 3B Wilson Contreras C Tyler O'Neill LF Gorman DH Jordan Walker RF Tommy Edman SS 2022 Opening Day roster. Spoiler! The Cardinals anticipated 26-player Opening Day roster projects as follows, but will not become official until Thursday, March 30: PITCHERS (13): Jack Flaherty-RHP, Giovanny Gallegos-RHP, Ryan Helsley-RHP, Jordan Hicks-RHP, Steven Matz-LHP, Miles Mikolas-RHP, Jordan Montgomery-LHP, Packy Naughton-LHP, Andre Pallante-RHP, Chris Stratton-RHP, Zack Thompson-LHP, Drew VerHagen-RHP, and Jake Woodford-RHP; CATCHERS (2): Willson Contreras and Andrew Knizner; INFIELDERS (6): Nolan Arenado, Brendan Donovan, Tommy Edman, Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Gorman and Taylor Motter; OUTFIELDERS (5): Alec Burleson, Dylan Carlson, Lars Nootbaar, Tyler O’Neill and Jordan Walker; INJURED LIST (3): Paul DeJong-INF, Wilking Rodríguez-RHP, Adam Wainwright-RHP. For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006. Spoiler! 2022 thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...8#post16877588 2021 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124 2020 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273 2019 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239 2018 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 2012 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619 etc. All the way back to 2006 WS https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 Last edited by BigRedChief; 03-30-2023 at 10:48 AM..
Posts: 79,209

07-30-2023, 04:05 PM	#1055
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards DJ's left nut's Avatar Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo	Rumors are that both Kloffenstein and Robberse will be assigned to Memphis. Have to think that means Graceffo is going to get called up to fill one of the rotation spots Montgomery and (eventually) Flaherty are vacating. Liberatore probably gets first crack at the other. I like being aggressive with both of them.
Posts: 60,762

07-30-2023, 05:23 PM	#1058
ChiefsCountry The Insider ChiefsCountry's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks	Cardinals getting the two turds that ran like bitches posting in their thread now.
Posts: 49,750

07-30-2023, 10:22 PM	#1059
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills BigRedChief's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water	Keith Law liked the trades. The Cardinals were clearly going to sell at the deadline, and they finally began that process on Sunday with a pair of trades, sending left-hander Jordan Montgomery to Texas for two prospects and a relief pitcher, and right-handed Jordan Hicks to Toronto for two prospects. It’s a big deal for a team that rarely finds itself in the position of seller on deadline day, and they did well in both trades, especially the Montgomery swap Montgomery ranks 17th among all MLB starters and third among lefties in fWAR this year at 2.4, working primarily with three pitches highlighted by a 55 sinker and a changeup that helps the sinker be more effective. He does a lot of things well even though there’s nothing plus here, with low walk rates and enough strikeouts to limit the effect of the hard contact he does surrender. He can be a little homer-prone, which in a small sample — like the two months he’ll give the Rangers — can contribute to short-term volatility, but I’d rather have him than Martín Pérez or Andrew Heaney at the back of my rotation. Montgomery was one of the best starting pitchers on the trade market, and as a result he netted the Cardinals two very good prospects plus a big-league reliever. Infielder Thomas Saggese has taken a significant step forward at the plate this year with a .314/.380/.514 line for Double-A Frisco as a 21-year-old, already matching his career high in homers. He’s split his time almost evenly between second base and third base and should be able to play either position at an average level. He’s aggressive at the plate but doesn’t miss too often, having some trouble with breaking stuff since he got to Double A. I wrote this winter that I thought he’d peak around 45/50 power, but it looks like I was wrong as he’s already there and should get to at least 55 power. I think he’s a solid regular with a chance to be something like a 4-WAR guy in his best years. Saggese alone would be a nice return for two months of Montgomery, but the Cards also got right-hander Tekoah Roby, who was pushing to become the Rangers’ top pitching prospect until he hit the injury list in early June with a shoulder issue. Prior to that, he was 92-96 mph with a plus changeup, 50/55 slider, and a yakker of a curveball that he started throwing way more often than the slider, presumably because it was so effective. It’s better control than command right now, although his control keeps improving and he didn’t walk more than one batter in any of his last seven outings. He projects as a No. 2 starter, although there’s a ton of variance here with his shoulder issue this year and an elbow injury in 2021 that didn’t require surgery. He should return before the end of August. The Cardinals also got left-handed reliever John King, who has pitched in the major leagues. There was talk about the Cardinals working out a long-term extension with Hicks, which would have been incredibly misguided for a reliever who’s already had Tommy John surgery and has consistently had walk rates far worse than the league average, including this year where he’s walked 12.7 percent of batters faced (NL average for relievers: 9.6 percent). Yes, Hicks sits 100-plus mph on his sinker and his sweeper/slider/dojigger gets a ton of whiffs, and that gives him some value because he gets groundballs and misses bats. He also walks too many guys and when he gives up contact it’s generally very hard contact, which is why he’s only been worth a win above replacement in 215 career innings. The Jays did just place closer Jordan Romano on the IL with a back injury, and their right-handed relief corps has been solid but unspectacular. Hicks gives them a different look and someone beyond Trevor Richards who comes into a game with a high probability that he’ll strike out the next batter. Right-hander Sem Robberse is the better of the two prospects coming to the Cardinals in this trade, although he’s had a disappointing 2023 where his stuff hasn’t progressed at all from last year and is sliding even as the season has gone along. He was signed at 16 out of the Netherlands as a highly projectable pitcher with a great delivery and command for his age, but who was working in the mid-80s. He’s still mostly just 90-92 mph, topping out at 94 mph, with a 55 slider and curveball as well as a solid-average changeup, which should make him a back-end starter … but hitters get on his fastball, hitting nine of the 14 homers he’s allowed this year off the heater, and that propensity for hard contact keeps him from projecting as a starter right now. He won’t turn 22 until October so he’s young enough to find another 2-3 mph somewhere. That might make him a mid-rotation starter, whereas now he might just be an emergency call-up. Right-hander Adam Kloffenstein repeated Double A this year and had improved results, although his stuff is still average at best and he’s going to have a harder time against even slightly more disciplined hitters. His best pitch, and his most-used one, is his slider, which was below-average last year but is solid-average now with a little better break and more velocity. He’s 90-94 mph now, up a little from 90-92 last year, although the pitch still doesn’t miss any bats and he has below-average command. His changeup is a distant third among his pitches and as a result, he’s had enough of a platoon split to question whether he could start even if his fastball and slider were better. I think he’s got a reliever ceiling, although that could work if moving to shorter outings boosts the velocity and effectiveness of the slider, but the most likely outcome is that he’s an up-and-down guy. For Hicks, who’s been wild when he hasn’t been hurt, this seems like a fair return as well.
Posts: 79,209

07-31-2023, 09:40 AM	#1060
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills BigRedChief's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water	Cardinals made offers to Montgomery and Flaherty in spring, Hicks recently, but failed to complete any contracts. Flaherty should be the next one dealt. — Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) July 30, 2023
Posts: 79,209

07-31-2023, 02:09 PM	#1061
Marco Polo Veteran Marco Polo's Avatar Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W	So far I'm digging these trades. Hope they can unload Flaherty, DeJong, clear up some of the OF (not named Walker), Kinzer, and a middle infielder (not named Gorman).
Posts: 2,508

07-31-2023, 03:13 PM	#1063
Megatron96 Suupraa Geniuuusss Megatron96's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Phoenix, AZ	They should just go all in and trade for Ohtani.
Posts: 30,212

07-31-2023, 03:45 PM	#1064
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! 'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2006	I feel like DeJong has held on longer than Castro at this point. I expect him to die after the 7th inning of some game in 2078.
Posts: 74,848

07-31-2023, 08:18 PM	#1065
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills BigRedChief's Avatar Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water	Cardinals are actively shopping Edman, Donovan, Carlson, and DeJong. Per Nightengale.
Posts: 79,209