Where does Simone Biles rank?

[Mizzou_8541]

Where does Simone Biles rank among the best American athletes ever? She’s literally reset the bar for the entire sport. Mahomes level except she’s done it for over a decade and against the world. Who is better? She has multiple routines named after her. Largest margin of victory. She jumps like 12 feet over routine. The oldest to win the all around in 72 years. I don’t know how to do polls, but even if I did what choices would he in the poll? I have two daughters in gymnastics and they both want to be her (obviously not relevant to my question but it’s nice as a dad to see them strive to beat her).

[A8bil]

Some thoughts -- coming from the father of a once elite gymnast:

Those comparing what Biles went through to the "yips" don't get it. There is danger in everything gymnasts do and when things are off in their head, it's severe injury they're risking. Swimmers, runners, etc. face none of that.

All gymnasts go through phases where their body won't do what their mind wants it to do. I've spent hundreds of hours at the gym watching girls standing trying to start a tumble routine, or balance beam routine, and they just can't. They stand there for hours, never moving...entire practices...until they can overcome the block.

I've also seen girls on the beam do flips and split the beam...yes, land right on their crotch, and the rule is always -- get up and do it again within 5 seconds or it will become a mental thing. Same with the bars...girls hit their faces on the bars all the time (just like the girl from Brazil just did). Bandage the cut and get back on the bars.

At least one a month, ambulances were at the gym taking someone away with a broken leg, broken arm, etc. It is literally one of the most brutal sports there is, but the gymnasts are trained to ignore the risks and push forward.

For context, my daughter broke her arm 3 times, her wrists 4 times, and tore her acl...before she was 14 years old.

Biles pulled out of the olympics not just because her disorientation issue came up right at the wrong time, but because if she continued, her entire team would lose. At least by dropping, it gave another girl a chance to compete, and a chance for the team to win.

As for how great SB is? She is far more dominant in gymnastics than Phelps was in swimming, and I say that as a person who swam for an NCAA national championship team (I sucked, BTW). Her margin of victory by scores are insane. While Phelps had many individual world records, he would beat existing times by incremental improvements, and I don't believe any of those records stand any longer. Some of his records fell in the same meet he set them.

That said, what made Phelps great was his ability to go into the Olympics and beat others who were only swimming one event, and then proceed to the next event where he beat more guys who were swimming just one event. And, he did it over and over, including semi-finals and finals. His stamina and recovery were amazing, but there were and are others who were similar swimmers (if not quite as great), including for example Leon Marchand for France right now.

So, I would put SB over Phelps. Ledecky has a better claim given her dominance in her main event...she holds the 15 fastest times in history.

As great as SB is, Mayweather has to be in the conversation. Never lost. Only once touched the canvas during a bout, but that was reportedly because he hurt his hand hitting Hernandez.

[Otter]

10/10

I want to see any of you do flips in mid air. Girl is gold!

[LoneWolf]

Originally Posted by Otter

10/10

I want to see any of you do flips in mid air. Girl is gold!

Do them all the time off the diving board at the pool.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by A8bil

Some thoughts -- coming from the father of a once elite gymnast:

Those comparing what Biles went through to the "yips" don't get it. There is danger in everything gymnasts do and when things are off in their head, it's severe injury they're risking. Swimmers, runners, etc. face none of that.

All gymnasts go through phases where their body won't do what their mind wants it to do. I've spent hundreds of hours at the gym watching girls standing trying to start a tumble routine, or balance beam routine, and they just can't. They stand there for hours, never moving...entire practices...until they can overcome the block.

I've also seen girls on the beam do flips and split the beam...yes, land right on their crotch, and the rule is always -- get up and do it again within 5 seconds or it will become a mental thing. Same with the bars...girls hit their faces on the bars all the time (just like the girl from Brazil just did). Bandage the cut and get back on the bars.

At least one a month, ambulances were at the gym taking someone away with a broken leg, broken arm, etc. It is literally one of the most brutal sports there is, but the gymnasts are trained to ignore the risks and push forward.

For context, my daughter broke her arm 3 times, her wrists 4 times, and tore her acl...before she was 14 years old.

Biles pulled out of the olympics not just because her disorientation issue came up right at the wrong time, but because if she continued, her entire team would lose. At least by dropping, it gave another girl a chance to compete, and a chance for the team to win.

As for how great SB is? She is far more dominant in gymnastics than Phelps was in swimming, and I say that as a person who swam for an NCAA national championship team (I sucked, BTW). Her margin of victory by scores are insane. While Phelps had many individual world records, he would beat existing times by incremental improvements, and I don't believe any of those records stand any longer. Some of his records fell in the same meet he set them.

That said, what made Phelps great was his ability to go into the Olympics and beat others who were only swimming one event, and then proceed to the next event where he beat more guys who were swimming just one event. And, he did it over and over, including semi-finals and finals. His stamina and recovery were amazing, but there were and are others who were similar swimmers (if not quite as great), including for example Leon Marchand for France right now.

So, I would put SB over Phelps. Ledecky has a better claim given her dominance in her main event...she holds the 15 fastest times in history.

As great as SB is, Mayweather has to be in the conversation. Never lost. Only once touched the canvas during a bout, but that was reportedly because he hurt his hand hitting Hernandez.

I must have completely missed the 'twisties' thing 4 years ago as I just remember a lot of 'mental issues' talk.... read an article this morning given the comments here about 'she could break her neck', which definitely gives some good context to it.

And I wasn't judging the 'mental issues' stuff 4 years ago, because what the **** do I know about what she was going through, just that it must have been an impossibly difficult decision.

I assume for Biles, it's not like she'd drop out weeks before the Olympics if she was having issues... it would just be something you hope goes away. And if it was more acute and started happening once/after you got there, I'm sure every fiber of her being was wanting to power through it.

[A8bil]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I must have completely missed the 'twisties' thing 4 years ago as I just remember a lot of 'mental issues' talk.... read an article this morning given the comments here about 'she could break her neck', which definitely gives some good context to it.

And I wasn't judging the 'mental issues' stuff 4 years ago, because what the **** do I know about what she was going through, just that it must have been an impossibly difficult decision.

I assume for Biles, it's not like she'd drop out weeks before the Olympics if she was having issues... it would just be something you hope goes away. And if it was more acute and started happening once/after you got there, I'm sure every fiber of her being was wanting to power through it.

100%. That's the mentality of a gymnast...power through it. It will pass, they think.

[kysirsoze]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf

Surely you can understand the difference between retiring before the season starts and quitting in the middle of the biggest competition your sport has. Let me know when Jordan walked out on the Bulls in the middle of the NBA finals.

That's one difference, yeah. Another is Jordan's issues never put him at serious risk of bodily harm. If you were ignorant of what she was going through before this thread, that's understandable. It's now been discussed at length so if you'd care to make a case that she's a quitter because she didn't risk life and limb to compete in a sporting event, I'm all ears.