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**dirk digler** · 12-25-2011, 10:59 AM

Let's get it on... finally

Jim Jones · 03-03-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Buying into weak, oversimplied media narratives will get you nowhere. You can't ask for a better shot out of a double team than the one Haslem had. But if you guys want to fall back on those narratives like sheep to make some over-used, hackneyed argument that LeBron is somehow scared of success, go ahead. It will only make you look foolish when one of the teams that he leads inevitably wins a championship due to his own play (and that's not really a question of if, but when).

Oh please, spare me the drama. Udonis Haslem being a below average offensive player isn't any kind of "oversimplified media narrative". It's a fact in 2012. Maybe if this was still the University of Florida version of Haslem, or even the 2006 NBA Finals version of Haslem, your argument might hold some kind of water, but no. Haslem is nothing more than a role player at this point and his only role is to rebound and defend, because his offensive game, like his jump shot, are non-existent anymore.

So yes, LeBron passing the ball to him in that situation is sheer stupidity.

KC_Connection · 03-03-2012, 07:15 PM

Even an NBA role player should make a wide open 15 footer far more times than LeBron taking a contested shot. Especially when those shots have been the guy's bread and butter his entire career as a NBA player.

There was nothing wrong with the pass in that situation and anybody with any knowledge of the game at all would tell you the same thing. The people who are criticizing that decision either don't understand basketball or are just looking for any reason they can to hate LeBron (and I'm guessing for most it is the latter).

Jim Jones · 03-03-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Even an NBA role player should make a wide open 15 footer far more times than LeBron taking a contested shot. Especially when those shots have been the guy's bread and butter his entire career as a NBA player.

Haslem is shooting 42% from the field and 39% from 16-23 feet, which is where that shot was from. So statistically speaking, Haslem was more than likely going to miss that shot. I'd much rather take LeBron's chances of rising and hitting a mid-range jumper right there, or even trying to take the ball to the basket.

Once again, this is 2012. It's not six years ago. It's not even four years ago. Haslem is not a good offensive player at this point. He's probably the last person on the Heat that should be taking that shot.

KC_Connection · 03-03-2012, 07:43 PM

Now you are looking at stats put up over 30 games this season over Haslem's entire career when he's been an effective offensive player (particularly from the range that he shot the ball last night). Talk about reaching for a way to criticize LeBron. It doesn't get any more petty than complaining about him making effective passes out of double teams to wide open jump shooters.

kcxiv · 03-03-2012, 07:49 PM

Its a what have you done for me lately league, not what he has done in the last 6 years of his career. Hell, Ron Artest u8sed to be a damned decent offensive player, he's ****ing terrible now. So thats like saying, i rather have kobe pass it and Ron shooting the open shot right now. NOOOOO. If it was 3-4 years ago, maybe.

People leave players like Haslem so wide open for a damned reason. They want Lebron to pass the ball. We all know Lebron is capable of hitting the shot even if he's double teamed. Its just in his nature to pass, and ill tell you want EVERy single coach in the league loves it at the end of games. They will take it EVERY SINGEl time, thats why you double him.

Jim Jones · 03-03-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Now you are looking at stats put up over 30 games this season over Haslem's entire career when he's been an effective offensive player (particularly from the range that he shot the ball last night). Talk about reaching for a way to criticize LeBron. It doesn't get any more petty than complaining about him making effective passes out of double teams to wide open jump shooters.

Why should I care what he did five years ago? His entire career is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I fully acknowledge that at one point in his career, he had a very solid jumper. You need to acknowledge that time has passed. It's 2012 and right now he's a below average offensive player. He can't hit that shot with any sort of regularity anymore and certainly not consistently enough to warrant him getting the last shot over LeBron, who was red hot at the time.

KC_Connection · 03-03-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Why should I care what he did five years ago? His entire career is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I fully acknowledge that at one point in his career, he had a very solid jumper. You need to acknowledge that time has passed. It's 2012 and right now he's a below average offensive player. He can't hit that shot with any sort of regularity anymore and certainly not consistently enough to warrant him getting the last shot over LeBron, who was red hot at the time.

Five years ago?

Haslem was shooting his career averages in both 2009-2010 and 2010-2011: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...hasleud01.html

Again, though, even if he really has regressed completely from what he was doing last year (and 30 games of evidence certainly doesn't prove that), he's still more than capable of knocking down a wide open 15 foot jump shot with regularity. I'll easily take that over a contested, buzzer beater type shot from LeBron, a shot he's been known to miss frequently.

okcchief · 03-03-2012, 08:05 PM

Again, not a bad play but I want my best player taking the shot. The fact that you don't even make that a consideration is silly. I like how you stick to your guns though.

Every coach in the NBA wants Haslem taking the last shot.

You even draw up a play for Haslem. You don't question why LeBron would say **** no get me the ball here?

Jim Jones · 03-03-2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Five years ago?

Haslem was shooting his career averages in both 2009-2010 and 2010-2011: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...hasleud01.html

Again, though, even if he really has regressed completely from what he was doing last year (and 30 games of evidence certainly doesn't prove that), he's still more than capable of knocking down a wide open 15 foot jump shot with regularity. I'll easily take that over a contested, buzzer beater type shot from LeBron, a shot he's been known to miss frequently.

Five years ago, last year..whatever. Either way, you're living in the past. He's proven this year that he's not that same player. He's missing that jumper with regularity. 39% from 16-23 feet is terrible. Once again, he's just about the last guy who should be taking that shot.

Also, Haslem wasn't even THAT wide open. It was a rushed shot and he had a hand in his face as he was putting it up. Hardly the clean, perfect shot you would hope to get with LeBron passing out of a double team.

**dirk digler** · 03-03-2012, 08:43 PM

I didn't get to watch the game but here is the replay. Holy crap what was Lebron thinking? He could have had a simple 5 foot jumper if he would have kept going and he passed the ball back, he was actually closer to the basket than Haslem.

KC_Connection · 03-03-2012, 08:46 PM

Sorry, but a small sample size of 30+ games doesn't take away from what a guy has done for his entire career or prove that he's somehow different now. Haslem should make a wide open 15 footer with regularity.

If you're going to try to criticize LeBron as a basketball player, you'll have to do better than knocking him for making an effective pass at the end of a game.

okcchief · 03-03-2012, 08:47 PM

The Thunder fell in love with the 3 again tonight. Oh well, I said I'd be happy with a 2-1 road trip.

Hammock Parties · 03-03-2012, 08:48 PM

okcchief · 03-03-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Sorry, but a small sample size of 30+ games doesn't take away from what a guy has done for his entire career or prove that he's somehow different now. Haslem should make a wide open 15 footer with regularity.

If you're going to try to criticize LeBron as a basketball player, you'll have to do better than knocking him for making an effective pass at the end of a game.

OK, let's criticize the coaching staff for not drawing up a play for him. Let's criticize him for not demanding the ball when he's on fire. Let's put the game on a guy that shoots 5 times a game over a guy that was 16/24 from the floor.

Hammock Parties · 03-03-2012, 08:56 PM

Oh my god, Dirk is having his best game of the year. 22 pts 4 minutes into the third.

12-25-2011, 10:59 AM
dirk digler Please squeeze dirk digler's Avatar Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO	**OFFICIAL NBA Regular Season Thread** Let's get it on... finally
Posts: 66,416

03-03-2012, 07:15 PM	#992
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity KC_Connection's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2006	Even an NBA role player should make a wide open 15 footer far more times than LeBron taking a contested shot. Especially when those shots have been the guy's bread and butter his entire career as a NBA player. There was nothing wrong with the pass in that situation and anybody with any knowledge of the game at all would tell you the same thing. The people who are criticizing that decision either don't understand basketball or are just looking for any reason they can to hate LeBron (and I'm guessing for most it is the latter).
Posts: 49,312

03-03-2012, 07:43 PM	#994
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity KC_Connection's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2006	Now you are looking at stats put up over 30 games this season over Haslem's entire career when he's been an effective offensive player (particularly from the range that he shot the ball last night). Talk about reaching for a way to criticize LeBron. It doesn't get any more petty than complaining about him making effective passes out of double teams to wide open jump shooters.
Posts: 49,312

03-03-2012, 07:49 PM	#995
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali	Its a what have you done for me lately league, not what he has done in the last 6 years of his career. Hell, Ron Artest u8sed to be a damned decent offensive player, he's ****ing terrible now. So thats like saying, i rather have kobe pass it and Ron shooting the open shot right now. NOOOOO. If it was 3-4 years ago, maybe. People leave players like Haslem so wide open for a damned reason. They want Lebron to pass the ball. We all know Lebron is capable of hitting the shot even if he's double teamed. Its just in his nature to pass, and ill tell you want EVERy single coach in the league loves it at the end of games. They will take it EVERY SINGEl time, thats why you double him.
Posts: 29,110

03-03-2012, 08:05 PM	#998
okcchief MVP okcchief's Avatar Join Date: Jul 2008	Again, not a bad play but I want my best player taking the shot. The fact that you don't even make that a consideration is silly. I like how you stick to your guns though. Every coach in the NBA wants Haslem taking the last shot. You even draw up a play for Haslem. You don't question why LeBron would say **** no get me the ball here?
Posts: 6,703

03-03-2012, 08:43 PM	#1000
dirk digler Please squeeze dirk digler's Avatar Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO	I didn't get to watch the game but here is the replay. Holy crap what was Lebron thinking? He could have had a simple 5 foot jumper if he would have kept going and he passed the ball back, he was actually closer to the basket than Haslem.
Posts: 66,416

03-03-2012, 08:46 PM	#1001
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity KC_Connection's Avatar Join Date: Jan 2006	Sorry, but a small sample size of 30+ games doesn't take away from what a guy has done for his entire career or prove that he's somehow different now. Haslem should make a wide open 15 footer with regularity. If you're going to try to criticize LeBron as a basketball player, you'll have to do better than knocking him for making an effective pass at the end of a game.
Posts: 49,312

03-03-2012, 08:47 PM	#1002
okcchief MVP okcchief's Avatar Join Date: Jul 2008	The Thunder fell in love with the 3 again tonight. Oh well, I said I'd be happy with a 2-1 road trip.
Posts: 6,703

03-03-2012, 08:48 PM	#1003
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Hammock Parties's Avatar Join Date: Nov 2002
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03-03-2012, 08:56 PM	#1005
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Hammock Parties's Avatar Join Date: Nov 2002	Oh my god, Dirk is having his best game of the year. 22 pts 4 minutes into the third.
Posts: 278,979