"George Kittle is the best TE in the NFL"

[ChiefsFanatic]

I love Kelce, and his expanded route tree trumps Kittle's blocking by a mile.

But, Tony Gonzalez is currently number 3 on the All-Time Receptions list. Not for Tight Ends, but for every position. In the history of the NFL.

He was number 2 behind Jerry Rice, and now he is number 3 behind Rice and Larry Fitzgerald. Even though TG did play in Dick Vermeil's offense, he also played in Marty's offense too. Teams were not nearly as pass happy as they are now, and he still made it as high as number 2 All-Time.

If Kelce puts up a few more 1000 yard seasons, and racks up a couple more all-pro awards and another ring or two, he could be the best ever. But, it's not a done deal like so many seem to think.

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[JD10367]

Tony G: 270 games, 1325 rec, 15127 yds, 11.4 ypc 111 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs: 5 rec, 56 yds, 0.4 TDs.

Rob Gronkowski: 115 games, 521 rec, 7861 yds, 15.1 ypc, 79 TDs. Average per game with one of the GOAT QBs: 4.5 rec, 68 yds, 0.4 TDs.

George Kittle: 45 games, 216 rec, 2945 yds, 13.6 ypc, 12 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs: 4.8 rec, 65.4 yds, 0.25 TDs.

Travis Kelce: 96 games, 507 rec, 6465 yds, 12.8 ypc, 37 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs until recently: 5.28 rec, 67.3 yds, 0.385 TDs.

Average receptions per game, in order: Kelce, Tony G, Kittle, Gronk

Average yards per game, in order: Gronk, Kelce, Kittle, Tony G (but Gronk played with a GOAT and the others didn't)

Average yards per catch, in order: Gronk, Kittle, Kelce, Tony G

Average TDs per game, in order: Gronk/Tony G, Kelce, Kittle (last by a wide margin, which is worse because guys like Gronk and Kelce have to share the ball with other great pass-catchers)

Putting them in finishing order per category, where your total is "lowest is best":

Gronk's positioning: 4, 1, 1, 1T -- total of 7
Kelce's positioning: 1, 2, 3, 3 -- total of 9
Tony G's positioning: 2, 4, 4, 1T -- total of 11
Kittle's positioning: 3, 3, 2, 4 -- total of 12

But we have to knock Gronk down a bit for playing his whole career with Brady. Although he and Kittle do get some extra credit for blocking--Gronk more so, in my opinion.

So what does all this mean? Personally, to me it means that Kelce is better than people give him credit for. A lot better. I think in his career, if he can stay healthy, he's going to be right up there with Gronk and above Tony G as one of the GOATs. Kittle? He's good but, honestly, there are a lot of good young TEs in the league right now. Kittle didn't even finish #1 in any of those average categories, and only had one #2 spot (YPC).

[SAGA45]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Tony G: 270 games, 1325 rec, 15127 yds, 11.4 ypc 111 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs: 5 rec, 56 yds, 0.4 TDs.

Rob Gronkowski: 115 games, 521 rec, 7861 yds, 15.1 ypc, 79 TDs. Average per game with one of the GOAT QBs: 4.5 rec, 68 yds, 0.4 TDs.

George Kittle: 45 games, 216 rec, 2945 yds, 13.6 ypc, 12 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs: 4.8 rec, 65.4 yds, 0.25 TDs.

Travis Kelce: 96 games, 507 rec, 6465 yds, 12.8 ypc, 37 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs until recently: 5.28 rec, 67.3 yds, 0.385 TDs.

Average receptions per game, in order: Kelce, Tony G, Kittle, Gronk

Average yards per game, in order: Gronk, Kelce, Kittle, Tony G (but Gronk played with a GOAT and the others didn't)

Average yards per catch, in order: Gronk, Kittle, Kelce, Tony G

Average TDs per game, in order: Gronk/Tony G, Kelce, Kittle (last by a wide margin, which is worse because guys like Gronk and Kelce have to share the ball with other great pass-catchers)

Putting them in finishing order per category, where your total is "lowest is best":

Gronk's positioning: 4, 1, 1, 1T -- total of 7
Kelce's positioning: 1, 2, 3, 3 -- total of 9
Tony G's positioning: 2, 4, 4, 1T -- total of 11
Kittle's positioning: 3, 3, 2, 4 -- total of 12

But we have to knock Gronk down a bit for playing his whole career with Brady. Although he and Kittle do get some extra credit for blocking--Gronk more so, in my opinion.

So what does all this mean? Personally, to me it means that Kelce is better than people give him credit for. A lot better. I think in his career, if he can stay healthy, he's going to be right up there with Gronk and above Tony G as one of the GOATs. Kittle? He's good but, honestly, there are a lot of good young TEs in the league right now. Kittle didn't even finish #1 in any of those average categories, and only had one #2 spot (YPC).

What about YAC?

[Shaid]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Tony G: 270 games, 1325 rec, 15127 yds, 11.4 ypc 111 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs: 5 rec, 56 yds, 0.4 TDs.

Rob Gronkowski: 115 games, 521 rec, 7861 yds, 15.1 ypc, 79 TDs. Average per game with one of the GOAT QBs: 4.5 rec, 68 yds, 0.4 TDs.

George Kittle: 45 games, 216 rec, 2945 yds, 13.6 ypc, 12 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs: 4.8 rec, 65.4 yds, 0.25 TDs.

Travis Kelce: 96 games, 507 rec, 6465 yds, 12.8 ypc, 37 TDs. Average per game with mostly crap QBs until recently: 5.28 rec, 67.3 yds, 0.385 TDs.

Average receptions per game, in order: Kelce, Tony G, Kittle, Gronk

Average yards per game, in order: Gronk, Kelce, Kittle, Tony G (but Gronk played with a GOAT and the others didn't)

Average yards per catch, in order: Gronk, Kittle, Kelce, Tony G

Average TDs per game, in order: Gronk/Tony G, Kelce, Kittle (last by a wide margin, which is worse because guys like Gronk and Kelce have to share the ball with other great pass-catchers)

Putting them in finishing order per category, where your total is "lowest is best":

Gronk's positioning: 4, 1, 1, 1T -- total of 7
Kelce's positioning: 1, 2, 3, 3 -- total of 9
Tony G's positioning: 2, 4, 4, 1T -- total of 11
Kittle's positioning: 3, 3, 2, 4 -- total of 12

But we have to knock Gronk down a bit for playing his whole career with Brady. Although he and Kittle do get some extra credit for blocking--Gronk more so, in my opinion.

So what does all this mean? Personally, to me it means that Kelce is better than people give him credit for. A lot better. I think in his career, if he can stay healthy, he's going to be right up there with Gronk and above Tony G as one of the GOATs. Kittle? He's good but, honestly, there are a lot of good young TEs in the league right now. Kittle didn't even finish #1 in any of those average categories, and only had one #2 spot (YPC).

Longevity matters. Tony has more than twice the games of Gronk and still averaged as high as he did. Undisputed best ever. Kelce has years left but started later. He most likely doesn't catch Tony because of that. Kittle is young and good but you've got to put in multiple years before you get into these conversations. Gronk had injuries really catch up to him and Kittle is much more baby Gronk than Kelce ever was. We'll see how it all plays out.

For right now, which is really what the OP is about, Kittle is damn good and probably a better blocker than Kelce. He's still not as good a receiver as Kelce. If they ran a pass heavy offense and he was getting doubled up constantly, the route running would be more apparent.

[neech]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

If Kelce puts up a few more 1000 yard seasons, and racks up a couple more all-pro awards and another ring or two, he could be the best ever. But, it's not a done deal like so many seem to think.

That’s all he has to do.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by neech

That’s all he has to do.

So, yeah. Look at these career stats, because it's not even close. Like I said in my post, I love Travis Kelce, but TG is so far above him it's not even close. There are only 2 players in the history of the NFL that caught more passes than Tony Gonzalez, and those are wide receivers Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald.

People who believe that Kelce is better than TG are welcome to their opinion, but the stats say otherwise, and in my opinion, there is no rational argument to be made for Travis being better than Tony.

Tony Gonzalez
1325 receptions
15,127 yards
111 Touchdowns
14 Pro Bowls
6 Time First Team All-Pro

Travis Kelce
565 receptions
7,234 yards
43 touchdowns
5 Pro Bowls
2 Times First Team All-Pro

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[MeaTy The Pimp]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

So, yeah. Look at these career stats, because it's not even close. Like I said in my post, I love Travis Kelce, but TG is so far above him it's not even close. There are only 2 players in the history of the NFL that caught more passes than Tony Gonzalez, and those are wide receivers Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald.

People who believe that Kelce is better than TG are welcome to their opinion, but the stats say otherwise, and in my opinion, there is no rational argument to be made for Travis being better than Tony.

Tony Gonzalez
1325 receptions
15,127 yards
111 Touchdowns
14 Pro Bowls
6 Time First Team All-Pro

Travis Kelce
565 receptions
7,234 yards
43 touchdowns
5 Pro Bowls
2 Times First Team All-Pro

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I think if you are going to compare them, compare the same number of years. Tony Gonzalez has played for more than twice the years than Kelce. I Think Kelce will have way better stats when he has been in the league as long as Gonzo (Especially with Mahomes pitching him the rock).

Looking at 'like' stats: (Kelce has been in the league for eight years including this year so I am only going to look at Gonzalez's first eight years. These numbers include playoffs as well)

Gonzalez:
Receptions: 600
Yards: 7191
TDs: 58

Kelce:
Receptions: 617
Yards: 7866
TDs: 49
Superbowls: 1


Gonzo still had more TDs, but Kelce killed him in yardage. Kelce also has a Superbowl ring.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by MeaTy The Pimp

I think if you are going to compare them, compare the same number of years. Tony Gonzalez has played for a lot longer than Kelce.



Looking at 'like' stats: (Kelce has been in the league for eight years including this year so I am only going to look at Gonzalez's first eight years. These numbers include playoffs as well)



Gonzalez:

Receptions: 600

Yards: 7191

TDs: 58



Kelce:

Receptions: 617

Yards: 7866

TDs: 49

Superbowls: 1





Gonzo still had more TDs, but Kelce killed him in yardage. Kelce also has a Superbowl ring.

When people use the word "ever" you have to look at the totality of a players career.

If you choose to compare the players through the same number of games, you can't say best ever. You can say player z has been better than player y through x number of games.

Or you can say player z is on pace to surpass player y's career stats, or that player z is on pace to become the best ever.

But using the comparison through the same number of games has no correlation to who is actually the best player at that position in NFL history.

Right now all those stats I listed for TG are FACTS.

Projecting Kelce's stats based on his current pace, times the length of Gonzalez's career, is just SPECULATION

I would love for Kelce to play as long as TG did, and I would love to crown Kelce the best ever when he retires, and when that time comes, hopefully he will have been a Kansas City Chief his entire career.

TG didn't actually have to retire, because he was still an effective tight end, and he had developed a great off-season plan for taking care of his body. Right now, Kelce's off-season plan consists of a lot of partying. And Kelce is going to make a lot more money that TG ever did, so he may not have the desire or need to play as long as Tony did.

Tony Gonzalez is the best tight end in the history of the NFL. I hope we can say that about Kelce in the future. And as a side note, those people who believe Gronk is the best ever can just FO.

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[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

People who believe that Kelce is better than TG are welcome to their opinion, but the stats say otherwise, and in my opinion, there is no rational argument to be made for Travis being better than Tony.

Travis is a few years older than Tony, relatively speaking, so it's very unlikely he'll play for as long as Tony did, but here are their statistics at this point in their respective careers:

127 games played
570 receptions
6915 yards
54 TD

105 games played
565 receptions
7234 yards
44 TD

(Games played discrepancy: Travis played only one game his rookie season, and obviously has 7 more to play this year.)

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

I can take or leave his corn

[IUsedToBeATightEnd]

I'd rather choose Bell over Kittle. I was kinda disappointed he was traded to Dallas.
Kittle is way overrated. He's just an average TE who fits quite nicely in the 49ers offense IMHO, hence his figures.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by IUsedToBeATightEnd

I'd rather choose Bell over Kittle. I was kinda disappointed he was traded to Dallas.
Kittle is way overrated. He's just an average TE who fits quite nicely in the 49ers offense IMHO, hence his figures.

Wow. This is the worst take I've read on this board in quite some time.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Wow. This is the worst take I've read on this board in quite some time.

Has to be a troll post. Check the username.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Wow. This is the worst take I've read on this board in quite some time.

Obviously ,missed the one where uchieffybutthead called Mahomes a coward . . .