Mad Men

[Reaper16]

Season 4 premiered tonight. I would have bumped the season three thread but I titled it "season 3," which no longer seems appropriate.

Who saw it? It was a stupendous hour of television. All sorts of shit has happened in the eleven months that have passed (in-story) between the formation of Sterling Cooper Draper Price and the beginning of season 4. The premeir was stepped in the juices of the sexual revolution. It also had a lot to say about the increasing role of the media in the success or failure of things. It was great to see Don fail a little bit, and it was exciting to consider the future implications at the end of Don crafting a public/media persona that is completely unlike his actual personality.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Episode was okay. But holy shit... I actually got this since of nostalgic well being when the opening music came on. It was so weird.

Yup. It was great to be back.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by NewChief

My main issue with both Peggy and Joan (and I'm playing off memory here because I haven't gone back and rewatched all the seasons) is that they both showed a remarkable lack of loyalty toward Don. That being said, I'm not sure that Don is really worthy of that much loyalty, and I think it's also meant to emphasize that a woman has to be double Machiavellian to succeed in this world... but that just made me dislike both of them at certain points in the series.

That being said, I generally like both of the characters now. I just remember being pissed at them a couple of times.

Joan is kind of a dumbass. She's a millionaire who became one by ****ing a whale client, so when she judges Draper, it's pretty humorous. When she stood there clueless about what to do about the topaz account, it took Draper all of 5 seconds to formulate a strategy. She should go back to herding secretaries.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by Brock

Joan is kind of a dumbass. She's a millionaire who became one by ****ing a whale client, so when she judges Draper, it's pretty humorous. When she stood there clueless about what to do about the topaz account, it took Draper all of 5 seconds to formulate a strategy. She should go back to herding secretaries.

I think Joan's character is supposed to make us feel sympathetic toward the limited options available to the women in that era. No matter how high she rises, she always knows that at the end, she got there thanks to prostitution. That's the irony of Peggy's line about her wealth. Peggy means it as a reminder that she doesn't have to do this, but for Joan its a reminder of her inability to rise in the corporate structure through any means other than sex. She's smart as hell, but her abilities lie in operations, not in accounts.

[SLAG]

Originally Posted by NewChief

I think Joan's character is supposed to make us feel sympathetic toward the limited options available to the women in that era. No matter how high she rises, she always knows that at the end, she got there thanks to prostitution. That's the irony of Peggy's line about her wealth. Peggy means it as a reminder that she doesn't have to do this, but for Joan its a reminder of her inability to rise in the corporate structure through any means other than sex. She's smart as hell, but her abilities lie in operations, not in accounts.

Excellent Post!

I also feel that they spoon fed us so much of the "Life not otherwise lived" theme - like we got it already and then they had to go and vocalize it.

The Joan /Peggy / Mcann scene was so cartoonish I have just been laughing thinking as if I could say those things to women today - would be awesome (and is awesome in the context of anonymous posting apps)

Overall Happy to be back, but also ready to wrap this ship up - Don't disappoint me weiner

[Red Brooklyn]

Jesus.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

I think we will lose 2 main characters before it's over, not including Don. I think Don ends up washed up somewhere. But I bet Roger kicks the bucket - car crash? And Pete suicide?

Don is worth millions in an era where millions actually meant something.

Outside of Don's demons, he could live anywhere in world very comfortably so if he washes up anywhere, it's on a tropical beach,

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by NewChief

Speaking of misogyny: the scene with Peggy and Joan meeting with the guys was ridiculously over the top and heavy handed.

I think it was typical of that era. I saw it as a child when I was five in 1970 and it's stuck with me ever since.

If anything, I think the scene was understated.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Don is worth millions in an era where millions actually meant something.

Outside of Don's demons, he could live anywhere in world very comfortably so if he washes up anywhere, it's on a tropical beach,

But Don doesn't want to retire. He needs to work. He'll end up on the Pollo Hermanos account in Albuquerque.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think it was typical of that era. I saw it as a child when I was five in 1970 and it's stuck with me ever since.

If anything, I think the scene was understated.

I just can't imagine the constant sexual innuendo to women. Maybe it's because I'm southern and was raised in a conservative christian household, but damn... we might have made off color jokes and had a locker room humor with the boys, but certainly not right to a lady's face.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by NewChief

I just can't imagine the constant sexual innuendo to women. Maybe it's because I'm southern and was raised in a conservative christian household, but damn... we might have made off color jokes and had a locker room humor with the boys, but certainly not right to a lady's face.

I get it. I couldn't believe it when I saw and heard it with my own eyes. Fortunately, times have changed.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by SLAG

Overall Happy to be back, but also ready to wrap this ship up

Yep. IMO, they've stretched out too far already. As I've probably stated earlier, I didn't need to see Betty, her weigh battle, her husband and his overbearing mother, nor did I really need to see Don's relationship with his daughter (while his relationship with his sons isn't even a footnote).

Six more episodes. Hope it doesn't disappoint.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yep. IMO, they've stretched out too far already. As I've probably stated earlier, I didn't need to see Betty, her weigh battle, her husband and his overbearing mother, nor did I really need to see Don's relationship with his daughter (while his relationship with his sons isn't even a footnote).

Six more episodes. Hope it doesn't disappoint.

Betty and the kids have always been the worst part of the show.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Betty and the kids have always been the worst part of the show.

Agreed. I never understood the reason for their participation in the show, especially since Don is almost never shown with his boys.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Betty and the kids have always been the worst part of the show.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Agreed. I never understood the reason for their participation in the show, especially since Don is almost never shown with his boys.

I think Weiner has a large deal of empathy for the kids since he's said in early interviews that the show is inspired in part on experiences of him & his parents. So he continues to write scenes for them even though his story outgrew that particular household.

Personally, I've always found Sally's storyline throughout the series (and Kiernan Shipka's performance, of a different energy than most of the other cast members') to be one of the parts of Mad Men that I'm most drawn to.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I think Weiner has a large deal of empathy for the kids since he's said in early interviews that the show is inspired in part on experiences of him & his parents. So he continues to write scenes for them even though his story outgrew that particular household.

Personally, I've always found Sally's storyline throughout the series (and Kiernan Shipka's performance, of a different energy than most of the other cast members') to be one of the parts of Mad Men that I'm most drawn to.

I think she's a phenomenal actress with an incredibly bright future, but I can't help but "sigh" every time they shift to her, Betty and her new husband. I'd rather see more of Pete, Joan, Don, Roger and most of all, Harry.

The "Media Guy" is essential to ad agencies beginning in the late 60's (and of course, indispensable today), so for me, I'd have liked to see more of his character as opposed to Don's former family.