Yeesh - Alec Baldwin just plopped into a world of hurt

[Baby Lee]

Breaking - details forthcoming

Discharged a 'prop' weapon that resulted in a death and another severe injury.

https://www.santafenewmexican.com/ne...c47b69ce5.html

[GabyKeepsMeWarm]

Originally Posted by Kiimo

Meanwhile John Landis personally sets up a situation where heads get chopped off by helicopter blades where was the righteous indignation then

Yeah... now that was some shit. So many rules broken in that case, and I'm not sure anyone involved did any time. I know Landis sure didn't, though again, I'm not entirely sure it should've been Landis's place to take all the blame for that. On a film set, there's a lot of ways to pass the buck.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Originally Posted by Kiimo

Meanwhile John Landis personally sets up a situation where heads get chopped off by helicopter blades where was the righteous indignation then

Oh man.. That was the Vic Morrow death, yes? And at least two others? **** that was nasty.

[GabyKeepsMeWarm]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

Oh man.. That was the Vic Morrow death, yes? And at least two others? **** that was nasty.

Yeah. And the kids who were killed were working after hours, breaking all kinds of child labor laws while doing a big stunt piece with helicopters and charges going off. Crazy. That shit wouldn't fly now in a million ****ing years, at least not in this country on any union show.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by PHOG

I didn't know fake guns shoot real bullets. Sounds like a real gun to me.

Maybe it's a fake gun until you can prove that it shoots real bullets. So Alec picked up a fake gun and put down a real gun.

[Otter]

Wasn't there an incident in 'The Crow' where there was a projectile lodged in the barrel and a blank produced enough energy to convert it into a deadly projectile?

Does anyone know the prerequisites for a prop guy? Maybe they shouldn't be in charge of things that go boom.

And what happened to Baby Lee? Was he a stunt double on this set? Did Alec Baldwin get a hold of him as well?

[GabyKeepsMeWarm]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Where's the line though? My understanding is that he believed it was a prop gun that wasn't capable of firing real bullets. So should all fake guns be treated like real guns? Or just ones that feel realistic? High school plays sometimes use fake guns. Should everyone in those productions be required to take gun safety courses? How about young kids with pop guns?

It just seems far more straightforward to me to hire someone who is an expert in firearms to ensure everyone is safe. If Baldwin has any fault here, it seems to me that he hired a shitty armorer, not that he should have believed fake guns might shoot real bullets.

I just want this to be clear. Any firearm on a set is a prop, or set dressing. Sometimes these guns are rubber, wood, plastic, and if they're holstered with a background actor, you'd never know the difference if it was real or not. Sometimes the firearm might be "real", but the firing pin has been removed, or something else to make it inoperable of firing. There's no reason for training in any of these cases.

But I guarantee every actor who has actually had to fire their weapon, has had some modicum of training. Probably not some grueling boot camp thing or anything, but I guarantee the stunt coordinator, f/x guys, and armorer/props people have gotten together with that actor to make sure they are comfortable and safe.

And again, here's the rub... real bullets should NEVER be on a film set EVER. That to me is the biggest mistake here, and it's egregious that happened and downright pathetic. And I guarantee Baldwin didn't hire the armorer, or any hiring on this show. Not his role. He might've had a say on certain things here and there, and perhaps put in some input, but he was not in charge of anything day to day. Not his job.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Otter

Wasn't there an incident in 'The Crow' where there was a projectile lodged in the barrel and a blank produced enough energy to convert it into a deadly projectile?

Does anyone know they prerequisites for a prop guy? Maybe they should be in charge of things that go boom.

And what happened to Baby Lee? Was he a stunt double on this set? Did Alec Baldwin get a hold of him as well?

No, there was no projectile... its was basically just a chunk of brass from a previous blank that got lodged in the barrel, then the next blank turned it into a projectile

[Otter]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

No, there was no projectile... its was basically just a chunk of brass from a previous blank that got lodged in the barrel, then the next blank turned it into a projectile

I stand corrected.

Thank you kind sir.

[GabyKeepsMeWarm]

Originally Posted by Otter

Wasn't there an incident in 'The Crow' where there was a projectile lodged in the barrel and a blank produced enough energy to convert it into a deadly projectile?

Does anyone know the prerequisites for a prop guy? Maybe they should be in charge of things that go boom.

And what happened to Baby Lee? Was he a stunt double on this set? Did Alec Baldwin get a hold of him as well?

Yeah, the Brandon Lee thing was weird. I've heard differing stories from people in the business on exactly what happened. One story I heard, was that the pistol used, had a glued projectile/bullet in the barrel of the gun, and had been used for closeups/photos, then reused in the scene with blanks being used, and the projectile was dislodged from the pressure and exited the chamber as a "real bullet" would be fired.

Not sure how it works everywhere, but I know in New York, in order to get your union card as a props person, you have to have had worked a certain number of days on union shows and there's also a lengthy written test. The test isn't easy from what I've heard, and many people flunk it on their first try.

As far as things that go boom, that's the f/x guys, or if there are firearms, it's the armorers and f/x team that handle that. If the weapons aren't being fired, the props team will often share the load, or handle it entirely.

[GabyKeepsMeWarm]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

No, there was no projectile... its was basically just a chunk of brass from a previous blank that got lodged in the barrel, then the next blank turned it into a projectile

Yeah, I heard that story too. At any rate, whatever was in the barrel got dislodged and became a projectile hitting Brandon in the abdomen, and ultimately killing him.

[Otter]

Originally Posted by GabyKeepsMeWarm

Yeah, the Brandon Lee thing was weird. I've heard differing stories from people in the business on exactly what happened. One story I heard, was that the pistol used, had a glued projectile/bullet in the barrel of the gun, and had been used for closeups/photos, then reused in the scene with blanks being used, and the projectile was dislodged from the pressure and exited the chamber as a "real bullet" would be fired.

Not sure how it works everywhere, but I know in New York, in order to get your union card as a props person, you have to have had worked a certain number of days on union shows and there's also a lengthy written test. The test isn't easy from what I've heard, and many people flunk it on their first try.

As far as things that go boom, that's the f/x guys, or if there are firearms, it's the armorers and f/x team that handle that. If the weapons aren't being fired, the props team will often share the load, or handle it entirely.

I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and I was being a bit sarcastic with the 'props guy' dig.

Don't think I've ever met Alec and if I did it was so brief I can't remember but I have no skin in this fight however, I don't find him at fault from what little I know.

[Demonpenz]

I am not reading this thread good luck

[Chief Pagan]

As an actor, I'm not really seeing anything that Baldwin did morally wrong. He relied on the gun being 'cold'.

But there had already been a number of people quit over safety and working conditions. There seems to me that there was criminal mismanagement on somebody's part. And Baldwin seems a prime suspect in that.

[Smed1065]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Hey, war crimes are not technically murder.

I hope not cause well.....

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Smed1065

I hope not cause well.....

THAT's where I remember you from. I knew you looked familiar.