Frank Clark ****ing sucks

[RealSNR]

Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by RunKC

We would have won with Houston? This is some dumbass logic. Jesus

I think if you could magically swap Houston and Clark for that playoff run, we still win that Super Bowl.

I'll give Clark is flowers for delivering that postseason run, but this board seriously underrates Houston.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by RunKC

We would have won with Houston? This is some dumbass logic. Jesus

We win all those games if you take out the sacks, so yes we would have won with Justin Houston instead of Frank Clark. Not really that hard to understand.

[rocknrolla]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

So-not arguing anything either way on Frank Clark, but the reality of a defensive gameplan against Kyler Murray is similar to Lamar. You're probably not going to get a lot of sacks from your edge rushers unless they're coverage sacks. You try to keep him contained and IN the pocket because you're probably more concerned with his ability to run than pass and you need to keep him corralled.

So, while I'm not bullish on some great Clark resurgence, this isn't really the game to point to as evidence of anything.

The pass rush as a whole looked pretty good; Murray was mostly made uncomfortable and did not have running lanes for the most part. That's what you do against that guy, just like Lamar. You're not going to get a ton of sacks.

Goddamn, this mother****er is sooooo right!

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

I think if you could magically swap Houston and Clark for that playoff run, we still win that Super Bowl.

I'll give Clark is flowers for delivering that postseason run, but this board seriously underrates Houston.

You could have swapped any DE/EDGE and we still win.

[ThaVirus]

I'm not going to go that far lol

We don't really know how much Clark's shit talking juiced up the squad, which was necessary in shutting down Derrick Henry in the Championship Game.

Plus I really enjoyed him running his mouth.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

No he didn't and I'm not going to stop debunking this outright lie. I've posted this before in this thread and I will post it again.

There is literally not one sack that entire postseason from him that isn't caused by either the QB holding the ball way too long or where he's not benefitting from his teammates dominating on the D line.

Wait a minute. We just don’t count sacks where the QB evades the initial rush/holds the ball too long and the DE keeps motoring and eventually chases the guy down? Did that not prevent a pass or a run that would prolong the drive?

When Karlaftis got a sack in the preseason game against the Bears because of a second and third effort, it’s a mark of his high motor and potential. But if Clark sacks Watson after he dances around the pocket and is potentially about to make a back-breaking run or pass, it doesn’t count.

Please explain how that works.

And why are we comparing Houston and Clark? Shouldn’t we be discussing Clark vs Ford seeing as how we traded for one and traded the other?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

I think if you could magically swap Houston and Clark for that playoff run, we still win that Super Bowl.

I'll give Clark is flowers for delivering that postseason run, but this board seriously underrates Houston.

Yes swap out Clark for the DE that did nothing for us in the playoff game against NE. Good idea.

Sorry but Houston did Jack shit when we needed him most. Clark tied the most sacks in history for a post season run and held the edge vs the run against 2 teams (Titans/Niners) that based their entire offense on running the ball.

And Clark’s leadership (along with Matheiu) actually changed this defense unlike its last leader (Houston).

Sorry dude but Houston was pissy. Probably bc of Eric Berry or maybe Patrick Mahomes but he didn’t do shit for us against Brady.

And yes this is 2019 Clark. After that he wasn’t good. But he was then…

[RunKC]

Also can’t wait for the “Frank Clark set the edge? Who ****ing cares?” Argument.

I care. Bc with Justin Houston’s fat ****ing ass we gave up 177 ****ing yards on the ground to the Patriots which was a part of why we lost.

Maybe if that mother****er could stop the run like Frank did we would have won.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Yes swap out Clark for the DE that did nothing for us in the playoff game against NE. Good idea.

Sorry but Houston did Jack shit when we needed him most. Clark tied the most sacks in history for a post season run and held the edge vs the run against 2 teams (Titans/Niners) that based their entire offense on running the ball.

And Clark’s leadership (along with Matheiu) actually changed this defense unlike its last leader (Houston).

Sorry dude but Houston was pissy. Probably bc of Eric Berry or maybe Patrick Mahomes but he didn’t do shit for us against Brady.

And yes this is 2019 Clark. After that he wasn’t good. But he was then…

We should have won that game against NE. If not for the flukiest offsides from Dee Ford, we advance and get another shot at the Rams in the Super Bowl.

Houston in that playoff run against the Colts in the Divisional Round had 2 sacks, 2 QB hits, 2 TFLs, 1 PD, and 1 FR. In our matchup in the regular season that year with the Rams Houston had that huge sack/strip that led to a go-ahead TD late in the 4th quarter.

Who knows how things play out if Ford lines up correctly?

Houston only got one playoff run with Pat and we should have gone to the Super Bowl. He definitely wasn't the problem and Frank Clark for damned sure wasn't the solution.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Wait a minute. We just don’t count sacks where the QB evades the initial rush/holds the ball too long and the DE keeps motoring and eventually chases the guy down? Did that not prevent a pass or a run that would prolong the drive?

When Karlaftis got a sack in the preseason game against the Bears because of a second and third effort, it’s a mark of his high motor and potential. But if Clark sacks Watson after he dances around the pocket and is potentially about to make a back-breaking run or pass, it doesn’t count.

Please explain how that works.

And why are we comparing Houston and Clark? Shouldn’t we be discussing Clark vs Ford seeing as how we traded for one and traded the other?

You're saying without Clark that we don't win and I'm showing why that's not true at all. Houston was released in the off-season that we traded for Clark. I'm using Houston, because I would have been completely happy if we kept him and not wasted resources.

[Sassy Squatch]

Wait, are you suggesting we should've kept Houston after we dumped his worthless BFF Haglunds?!? There's no ****ing way that would've been fine.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

You're saying without Clark that we don't win and I'm showing why that's not true at all. Houston was released in the off-season that we traded for Clark. I'm using Houston, because I would have been completely happy if we kept him and not wasted resources.

First, please don’t skip over the rest of my post. Address that.

Second, Clark and Matthieu counted 13mm against the salary cap in 2019 (source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffed...s-revenge/amp/ ) while Houston would’ve counted 14mm alone. So nice comparison. But I’ll play along.

Do we win a Super Bowl with Houston and a first round pick instead of Clark and Matthieu?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Also can’t wait for the “Frank Clark set the edge? Who ****ing cares?” Argument.

I care. Bc with Justin Houston’s fat ****ing ass we gave up 177 ****ing yards on the ground to the Patriots which was a part of why we lost.

Maybe if that mother****er could stop the run like Frank did we would have won.

Frank Clark never set the edge worth a shit. And in fact, for the VAST majority of Houston's career, his ability to stop the run was positively elite. It was the last thing to go for him here in KC. I'd acknowledge value in run defense if Frank Clark was actually good at it. He wasn't - it was just some gray area that his last supporters could glom onto that wasn't easily and obviously disproven (though large numbers have certainly done so).

Yeah, Houston played like hot garbage against NE. So did Chris Jones - what's that have to do with 2019? The DL as a whole should've been fired into the sun after that game and yet Chris Jones was very possibly our best defender in the SB. I believe you're getting a little tunnel vision as it relates to Justin Houston specifically moreover you're using the absolute worst example of him as your placeholder.

A 'replacement level' performance is not what we got from Justin Houston vs. NE. That said, we've gotten sub-replacement level from Frank Clark about 80% of his games here, including in the '19 season. Bad games happen to everyone and using Houston's worst game as a proxy (especially after he obliterated the Colts the week prior) is hardly a reasonable approach.

There are literally dozens of guys capable of doing what Frank Clark did during that run. And yeah - Justin Houston is one of them. But not the only one. That's hardly a rousing argument in favor of Frank Clark.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Also can’t wait for the “Frank Clark set the edge? Who ****ing cares?” Argument.

I care. Bc with Justin Houston’s fat ****ing ass we gave up 177 ****ing yards on the ground to the Patriots which was a part of why we lost.

Maybe if that mother****er could stop the run like Frank did we would have won.

Please show me the plays in which Frank Clark was instrumental in stopping the run during our SB run.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Please show me the plays in which Frank Clark was instrumental in stopping the run during our SB run.

They probably look like all those other plays where he was 'just doing his job' or 'the opponent was running away from him...'

Again - I really felt like we'd gotten beyond this "Frank Clark sets the edge" nonsense. There's literally nothing to support it. It wasn't a strength of his in Seattle and frankly NOTHING has been a strength of his in KC.

It's just something that's hard enough to loudly disprove that his supporters claimed he did it at a superlative level - lack of evidence be damned.