***Official 2023 STL Cardinals Thread ***

[BigRedChief]

2023 thread. Walker makes the roster. I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its official

2023 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

Donovan 2B
Nootbar RF
Goldschmidt 1B
Arenado 3B
Wilson Contreras C
Tyler O'Neill LF
Gorman DH
Jordan Walker RF
Tommy Edman SS

2022 Opening Day roster.

Spoiler!

The Cardinals anticipated 26-player Opening Day roster projects as follows, but will not become official until Thursday, March 30:
PITCHERS (13): Jack Flaherty-RHP, Giovanny Gallegos-RHP, Ryan Helsley-RHP, Jordan Hicks-RHP, Steven Matz-LHP, Miles Mikolas-RHP, Jordan Montgomery-LHP, Packy Naughton-LHP, Andre Pallante-RHP, Chris Stratton-RHP, Zack Thompson-LHP, Drew VerHagen-RHP, and Jake Woodford-RHP;
CATCHERS (2): Willson Contreras and Andrew Knizner;
INFIELDERS (6): Nolan Arenado, Brendan Donovan, Tommy Edman, Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Gorman and Taylor Motter;
OUTFIELDERS (5): Alec Burleson, Dylan Carlson, Lars Nootbaar, Tyler O’Neill and Jordan Walker;
INJURED LIST (3): Paul DeJong-INF, Wilking Rodríguez-RHP, Adam Wainwright-RHP.

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

2022 thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...8#post16877588
2021 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124
2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Contreras getting thrown under the bus for being who he is by the front office, seeing pieces of his media today and his attitude at the game tonight…… I’m starting to like the guy….

Agree 100%. Sad that he is the only one who is showing any kind of class at the moment. I'm cringing at the PR failures of the Cardinals organization right now.

I didn't go to the game last night so of course we won. Going to the game tonight and tomorrow so my apologies for bringing my bad luck to Wrigley.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Agree 100%. Sad that he is the only one who is showing any kind of class at the moment. I'm cringing at the PR failures of the Cardinals organization right now.

I didn't go to the game last night so of course we won. Going to the game tonight and tomorrow so my apologies for bringing my bad luck to Wrigley.

You think we're hoping for wins??

I was cussing the Cubs out for stranding so damn many baserunners last night. God dammit, Chicago - can't you do ANYTHING right?

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother

Then why the **** did Mo sign the turd? More proof that it's not just ownership that's the problem

Signing Contreras in itself was/is fine.

Doing nothing else and blaming the one guy you signed due to the shortcomings of a shit rotation that was assembled due to stingy ownership/decision making is bullshit.

Small sample, but his offense is in-line with his career norms.

Team has played like ass and FO wanted to act like they did something by blaming the new guy instead of acknowledging their mistake of going with a horrible rotation.

[DJ's left nut]

Signing the NL version of Gary Sanchez to an $87 million deal is by no means 'fine'.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Signing the NL version of Gary Sanchez to an $87 million deal is by no means 'fine'.

Depends on how you view the signing.

If you view it to upgrade the blackhole Molina/Kinzer was offensively, then yes, he’s been doing exactly that, which is fine.

If you view the signing to being the only attempt at improving the team, without getting someone who can be competent defensively and hit at least replacement level to split time with Contreras so his offensive and defensive production doesn’t drop off with a heavier load, than no, it was not fine.

I thought signing Contreras was a step in the right direction at solving some of the issues the team had last season, and still do. Not doing anything else though negates the benefit of having Contreras.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Depends on how you view the signing.

If you view it to upgrade the blackhole Molina/Kinzer was offensively, then yes, he’s been doing exactly that, which is fine.

If you view the signing to being the only attempt at improving the team, without getting someone who can be competent defensively and hit at least replacement level to split time with Contreras so his offensive and defensive production doesn’t drop off with a heavier load, than no, it was not fine.

I thought signing Contreras was a step in the right direction at solving some of the issues the team had last season, and still do. Not doing anything else though negates the benefit of having Contreras.

If you were only going to find a catching replacement this deal makes zero sense. If you made this deal and were going after pitching upgrades (using your prospects that would have gone to a Sean Murphy type trade) then it makes more sense.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by VAChief

If you were only going to find a catching replacement this deal makes zero sense. If you made this deal and were going after pitching upgrades (using your prospects that would have gone to a Sean Murphy type trade) then it makes more sense.

That's what I'm trying to get at.

The Contreras signing isn't bad.

Only signing him and otherwise doing jack shit via FA or trade is.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Depends on how you view the signing.

If you view it to upgrade the blackhole Molina/Kinzer was offensively, then yes, he’s been doing exactly that, which is fine.

If you view the signing to being the only attempt at improving the team, without getting someone who can be competent defensively and hit at least replacement level to split time with Contreras so his offensive and defensive production doesn’t drop off with a heavier load, than no, it was not fine.

I thought signing Contreras was a step in the right direction at solving some of the issues the team had last season, and still do. Not doing anything else though negates the benefit of having Contreras.

Contreras brings little to no benefit. He's...fine on offense. He gives it all back on defense.

He's a slightly better than replacement level player. There are a half dozen veteran options that were available that would've been better and not required a 5 year, big money commitment.

He wasn't a step in the right direction - he was an indication of how clueless this front office is. Willson Contreras isn't a guy who'd ever backstop the Cardinals to meaningful accomplishment. Hell, the Cubs we're playing Ross when it mattered.

You don't build a champion with this guy handling your staff and his bat isn't worth $17 million/yr at DH. So no, nothing about the signing was fine.

It was bad. And in a way that exacerbated the REST of their bad decisions.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Contreras brings little to no benefit. He's...fine on offense. He gives it all back on defense.

He's a slightly better than replacement level player. There are a half dozen veteran options that were available that would've been better and not required a 5 year, big money commitment.

He wasn't a step in the right direction - he was an indication of how clueless this front office is. Willson Contreras isn't a guy who'd ever backstop the Cardinals to meaningful accomplishment. Hell, the Cubs we're playing Ross when it mattered.

You don't build a champion with this guy handling your staff and his bat isn't worth $17 million/yr at DH. So no, nothing about the signing was fine.

It was bad. And in a way that exacerbated the REST of their bad decisions.

His defense is slightly below average with the main issue for him historically being pitch framing that's also being exacerbated by a shit rotation.

He isn't the issue with this team and to have the FO scape-goat him as such is. I genuinely believe the overall view of the signing would be held in this negative of a light if the rotation wasn't as shitty as its been.

But maybe I'm biased and acknowledge that I thought going after a catcher upgrade (which I view(ed) Contreras to be in the off-season) was more of a meaningful impact on the team as a whole than going after another infielder who might be an upgrade over Edman offensively (aka Trea Turner) but not overall when considering defense and that Edman is at least an above average hitter in his own right while also wanting more pitching on top of that.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

So we passed on Murphy to hold on to a complete turd in Nootbar? Holy **** that is incredible

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Signing Contreras in itself was/is fine.

Doing nothing else and blaming the one guy you signed due to the shortcomings of a shit rotation that was assembled due to stingy ownership/decision making is bullshit.

Small sample, but his offense is in-line with his career norms.

Team has played like ass and FO wanted to act like they did something by blaming the new guy instead of acknowledging their mistake of going with a horrible rotation.

It was an abomination, so ya it wasn't "fine"

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother

It was an abomination, so ya it wasn't "fine"

I know tracking WAR for Catcher is harder compared to other positions, but he’s a +0.6 this season.

If you think he is the reason they’ve been dog shit to start the season, you have your right to your opinion.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother

So we passed on Murphy to hold on to a complete turd in Nootbar? Holy **** that is incredible

I can't understand your all out hate for Nootbar but he's actually pretty far from being a turd or a problem of any kind.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother

So we passed on Murphy to hold on to a complete turd in Nootbar? Holy **** that is incredible

Nootbaar is a good player. Probably our best outfielder and a guy who would help essentially every team in baseball.

He's a plus defender in the corners and credible in CF. Gets on base at an outstanding clip, is a smart baserunner. He's perfect in the 2 or 7 spots, IMO. And hell, you're probably in nice shape leading him off.

Brandon Nimmo just got 8/$162 to be almost the exact same player. Hell, Noot might be better than Nimmo.

No idea why you blast on the guy as much as you do. This team has 10-15 targets of genuine ire and Lars Nootbaar ain't one of 'em.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

His defense is slightly below average with the main issue for him historically being pitch framing that's also being exacerbated by a shit rotation.

He isn't the issue with this team and to have the FO scape-goat him as such is. I genuinely believe the overall view of the signing would be held in this negative of a light if the rotation wasn't as shitty as its been.

I don't disagree.

And yes, the FO is being wholly unfair to scapegoat him.

But he's part of the problem. Would people be as hard on him if the team were winning? No - but that's always the case. People defend Mozeliak when the Cardinals win despite mistake after mistake after mistake. Again, I've gone over his record on this and it's uuuuuuuugly.

But that doesn't mean Mozeliak is good at his job. Just as the fact that Contreras is being unfairly piled on doesn't mean he's a guy who should've been signed in the first place.