****Official 2017 Missouri Tigers Football Thread****

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Year two of the Barry Odom era begins in a little over a month.

2017 Schedule:

Spoiler!

9/2: vs Southwest Missouri State
9/9: vs South Carolina
9/16: vs Purdue
9/23: vs Auburn
10/7: @Kentucky
10/14: @Georgia
10/21: vs Idaho
10/28 @UConn
11/4: vs Florida
11/11: vs Tennessee
11/18: @Vanderbilt
11/24: @Arkansas

Hamas' Crystal ball says 6-6 w/ two SEC wins (SC @ home and @Vandy).

Recruiting:

Bold=Signed LOI

Spoiler!

Commitments:


Daniel Parker Jr, DE: **** 5.8 RR, Blue Springs, MO
Antar Thompson, DT: *** 5.7 RR, Highland C.C. (JUCO), KS
Mike Ruth, OL: *** 5.6 RR, Coppell, TX
Danny Gray, WR: ***, 5.7 RR, Dallas, TX
Harry Ballard III, WR: ***, 5.5 RR, Ellisville, MS
Jalen Knox, RB: ***, 5.7 RR, Arlington, TX
Tyrone Collins, DB, ***, 5.5 RR, Bradenton, FL
Kam Scott, WR: ***, 5.7 RR, Manvel, TX
Chad Bailey, LB: ****, 5.8 RR, Missouri City, TX
Cameron Wilkins, LB: ***, 5.6 RR, Del Valle, TX
Jarvis Ware, CB: **, 5.3 RR, Apopka, FL
Trajan Jeffcoat, DE: ***, 5.5 RR, Columbia, SC
Gerald Nathan Jr., LB: ***, 5.5 RR, Charlotte, NC
Chris Mills, DB: ***, 5.5 RR, Converse, TX
Dominic Gicinto, WR: **, 5.3 RR, Raytown, MO
Javon Foster, OL: **, 5.3 RR, West Bloomfield, MI
Khmari Thompson, WR: ***, 5.5 RR, Lawrenceville, GA
Sami Bakare, RB: **, 5.4 RR, Austin, TX
Nick Bolton, LB, ***, 5.6 RR, Frisco, TX
Xavier Delgado, OT, ***, 5.5 RR, Glendale, AZ
Bobby Lawrence, OL, **, 5.4 RR, St. Joseph, MO
Lindsey Scott Jr. QB, ***, 5.7 RR, Scooby MS (JUCO)
Jatorian Hansford, LB, ***, 5.6 RR, Forsyth, GA
Tyler Badie, RB, **, 5.3 RR, Memphis, TN

There are several key recruits in state this year, and Missouri is not off to a promising start. There are seven 4* players within the state and thus far Missouri has no commitments. Texas and Nebraska both have one. If Odom cannot lock down a good portion of this in-state talent crop, it's unlikely he sees his second recruiting class graduate.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Stanley Nickels

I'd agree with you if we were in any other conference, save maybe the Big 10. Throwing a guy into the SEC to learn is like throwing a blue-chip rookie pitcher into the majors because "he'll get there one day anyway"-- the wallopings just hurt confidence, and the competition is too many steps ahead to truly learn any lessons.

Also, Sterk is not in the position of being able to wait around while Odom learns-- there's just too many impatient rich folks with too much clout to let that go on, and money drives everything. Would that we could pack the house every week regardless of record; we just aren't that type of program.

Sure he is - Sterk has earned a shitload of rope with the rich guys through the Martin hire and basketball momentum and the speed at which he got the south end zone project done.

Remember - facilities races are as important in the long-term success of a program as any single season record (or several seasons). Sterk getting the South End Zone done so suddenly is going to get him plenty of time. He's going to get at least one football hire - firing Odom now or in '18 won't make a difference.

Perhaps you're right - maybe being in the SEC is just so far over his ability right now that he's not learning anything. But people would've said that about Danny Duffy, no? But he was learning even if he was woefully overmatched early on. And even if it turns out that you're right, I just don't see much harm in letting him prove it fully and finally.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Jerm

Greg Schiano is the first call I'm making...I'm sure he'll have a better offer though.

**** that.

I'll root for 2 win football teams before I root for Greg ****ing Schiano. If you want that asshole coaching this team then it's quite apparent that you're little more than a bumper sticker fan.

I will drop my football tickets in a heartbeat if they hire that mother****er.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

You have to be ****ing high to give Odom a third year after going what's likely to be 2-10.

If you're trying to be a football power house, 2-10 can never ever ever be tolerated. Ever.

Eh, fanspeak. Change for the sake of change doesn't impress me, nor does aggrandizing or 'tough talk'.

As for a locker room split, we had like one "anonymous" player from 2015 saying that? I'm not sure if that's a thing 2 years later, but hey who knows.

Um....no. I suspect you need to brush up a bit. No, this wasn't one 'anonymous' player.

From what I can see, I don't see a whole lot of active coaching. Guys are just standing around bullshitting or sittinf with a finger in their ass. I can't recall much live teaching taking place.

Sadly, I'm there every week and no, they're working at it. But ultimately what the hell kind of 'coaching' do you think ever happens mid-game? They aren't working on the finer points of technique and no, they aren't just letting guys suck and ignoring it. The staff is constantly talking to them but for whatever reason it isn't working.

To be a force in the SEC with a so-so recruiting result, you have to be fundamentally sound top to bottom. Odom's squad can't stop steppingon their own dicks.

Correct. They aren't playing cohesively. You can offer truisms "you have to be fundamentally sound" or you can try to root source it. "ODOM SUCKS!!!" isn't much of a root source. I mean we know this guy can coach a defense - his D set SEC records as a coordinator. Yet the defense is failing badly. He didn't forget how to coach defense but there's something underlying this whole thing. To me, that almost has to be a team that's not playing for each other and yes, the '2nd year coach' thing can help explain that.

And finally, coaches go to places all the time not expecting to stay with a better job offer down the line and end up staying. I'd be amazed if Pinkel wasn't aiming for higher.

You pay the guy you want to keep really well, along with his staff and give him the beat resources to win. Sure that's not going to fend off a Bama or a Ohio State, but blueblood jobs don't come open often.

True. But mid-major coaches with success are available every single season. There will always be another Bobo. There will always be another Wittingham. I just don't see anyone worth falling ourselves over to go get. If someone opened up that I thought was a unique situation - sure, pull the trigger on Odom and get him.

But I just don't see the upshot on those guys - they're just this year's hot target. There will be another one next year. The guy MIGHT be another Gunther Cunningham (and he might be; I didn't care for the number of 'I statements' in that post-game presser where he seemed largely unhinged), but I'm not completely convinced of it yet and I see little actual harm in establishing that.

This team isn't going to get further away than where it is now.

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Sure he is - Sterk has earned a shitload of rope with the rich guys through the Martin hire and basketball momentum and the speed at which he got the south end zone project done.

Agree on both points, but it could also be said that the boosters now know the results this guy can produce when tasked with a big hire/undertaking like finding a new coach. If I'm a booster, the Martin hire just makes me salivate harder for a similar hire and hopefully a similar aggressive turnaround. On the other hand, your point is also well taken in that, if Sterk voices confidence in Odom, those same boosters trust his judgment and intuition.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Perhaps you're right - maybe being in the SEC is just so far over his ability right now that he's not learning anything. But people would've said that about Danny Duffy, no? But he was learning even if he was woefully overmatched early on. And even if it turns out that you're right, I just don't see much harm in letting him prove it fully and finally.

A good example, but anecdotal-- Duffy was an exception, and there are plenty of Royals pitchers who didn't make it in similar situations. Fair point, though. Probably also a bad analogy on my end, as the consequences of being overmatched are completely different for a single pitcher than the veritable CEO of a football team.

FTR, I do hope Odom exceeds, and I don't see him as Kim Anderson 2.0. With Anderson, I got no sense of an underlying, true winner's mentality like I do with Odom. I think ultimately his future rests completely in the hands of Sterk for the reasons above-- if Sterk thinks he can right this ship, the boosters will likely support him.

[BryanBusby]

I think its been well-established that MU is aiming to be a football power house. Fan speak? You're not changing for the sake of change, you're changing because the program has bottomed out and the team has quit on the guy in charge. I have no idea where you are going here.

To put another stiff on the sideline? No. You got a really good AD on campus, let him do his magic. He knows what the **** he is doing and can absolutely get things turned around.

Your logic is completely baffling and is quite parallel to the batshit reasoning for keeping Kim Anderson for as long as they did.

You make the move asap because you've got to make ****ing money and there isn't money to be had with empty seats.

I haven't seen anything official about a rift beyond one article from around the time the team threatened to strike, so you're welcome to link articles that would say otherwise.

What I'm saying is a locker room rift doesn't suddenly make a guy forget basic fundamentals of playing football. This team can't do the most basic of shit.

I think you're dismissing the amount of coaching you can do on the sidelnes an awful lot.

Being a successful Head Coach takes more than being able to coach a Defense. It's the difference of being a bean counter and an executive.

Coaching depends a lot on having the right underlings in place to do the job right, which is something he failed spectacularly at. I don't think he's a detail orientated guy anywhere close to what Pinkel was.

Pinkel came in with a plan and a vision and sold it to the program top to bottom. Odom came in trying to copy that plan as well as he could.

The best and arguably only great move you could say Odom made was getting rid of the Offensive Line coach, which was a no ****in brainer.

And to cap, ah yeah this team can get further away. The longer Barry is around the more shit the next guy will have to shovel out.

[BryanBusby]

Barry Odom is on a level equivalent to Herm Edwards, Kim Anderson and Romeo Crennel.

Romeo Crennel had some amazing Defenses too. But hey, who ****ing cares?

Sometimes you just have to be willing to flush the ****ing turd before the whole room begins to stink.

[DJ's left nut]

All three of those guys were past their prime, established mediocrity.

Anderson, in particular, was a guy that would've been hired by NOBODY at the Division I level apart from the University of Missouri. That's the critical question - was this person hired because he was a good coaching candidate or was he hired because he was a True Son?

Anderson was an old red-ass with no upside and no resume. His only job experience in D1 was a clear and unqualified failure as Norm's 2nd in command. There was never any reason to expect he would succeed and there was never any reason to think he might improve.

That's a different animal than Odom, who would've been hired by a D1 school, though admittedly not likely a Power 5 program (though I do believe he'd have earned a P5 job within 5 years).

Yes, this is all damning with faint praise, but I still think there's ability and potential there with Odom. And IF that ability and potential can be realized here, it's better than anything we're likely to do as an alternative to Odom.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

**** that.

I'll root for 2 win football teams before I root for Greg ****ing Schiano. If you want that asshole coaching this team then it's quite apparent that you're little more than a bumper sticker fan.

I will drop my football tickets in a heartbeat if they hire that mother****er.

[BryanBusby]

I don't think Odom is a total lost cause, but he's not going to rebound here at Mizzou. Once he's lost the locker room it's gone and I think it's a fair bet to say he has lost it.

He still has a shot, but needs to step down and reflect on what he did wrong, what wasn't his fault and take a low pressure gig to try and find his own method that works.

Sterk has made progress here already and has a good track record at SDSU. He should get his shot at getting his own guy in place for football.

I'm confident he knows what he's doimg and having successful major sports programs will go a long way to get the University back to where it should be.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

I don't think Odom is a total lost cause, but he's not going to rebound here at Mizzou. Once he's lost the locker room it's gone and I think it's a fair bet to say he has lost it.

He still has a shot, but needs to step down and reflect on what he did wrong, what wasn't his fault and take a low pressure gig to try and find his own method that works.

Sterk has made progress here already and has a good track record at SDSU. He should get his shot at getting his own guy in place for football.

I'm confident he knows what he's doimg and having successful major sports programs will go a long way to get the University back to where it should be.

If I were confident that he's truly lost the room, I'd agree with you. I agree that it's damn near impossible to recapture a team. And prior to really thinking about it, I'd have probably said the same thing.

But I really did like Barnett's explanation and it made a ton of sense, especially when combined with the fact that the football team wasn't exactly one big happy family when he took it over. Then you combine that with Kuligowski shitting in the well on his way out the door (and the fact that he blamed Odom for his leaving), Steck's popularity with the squad and his subsequent departure AND the whole Pat Ivey mess plus the fact that there are still folks on this team that didn't really sign up to play for Odom....damn man, I just can't get to 'this guy's completely hopeless' yet.

There are some odd circumstances that surrounded his arrival, his promotion, his SECOND promotion and finally the departure of other guys that were here like Kuligowski, Steck and Ivey. Combine with his noob status and it's just hard to act like this team should be as good as I expected it to be. Again - I thought these damn guys would win 8-9 and could take the East. I'm as flummoxed by this as anyone. But I also have to consider the possibility that I was just a wild-eyed optimist.

Like I said, you may well be right. And if they continue to just take dumps on the field every week I may have to give up as well. But again - I just don't see it as being so obvious or the alternatives so outstanding as to force Sterk's hand.

Though there is something to be said for your point that Sterk's track record suggests that he deserves a football hire. Those are legacy moves and at some point, especially if Martin is the home run that it appears to be, Sterk probably does deserve an opportunity to install his own guy. But man, I hate cutting a good man's throat to effectuate it.

In hindsight I guess you just promote Steckel and his relatively short shelf life then you tell Odom to take the Memphis job and call us in 5 years.

[BigCatDaddy]

Great story on the death spiral.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21480/...mpaign=dwbrand

[Stanley Nickels]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Great story on the death spiral.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21480/...mpaign=dwbrand

From a right-wing publication

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I think we can all agree that we want Odom to succeed, and I'm sure that it is often difficult for head coaches to administrate towards the second year. However, let's actually look at Gary Barnett's claim in greater detail with some of the great coaches in CFB.

Saban: after 7-5 his first year, wins the NC
Dabo Swinney: Got promoted mid-year, went 4-3 for the rest of the season. Went 9-5 the next year, but then slipped to 6-7 in year three.
Mark Dantonio: Went from 7-6 to 9-4, then slipped in year three
Jimbo Fisher: Went from 10-4 to 9-4
Les Miles: Went from 11-2 to 11-2.
Pete Carroll: Went from 6-6 to 11-2
Harbaugh: Went from 4-8 to 5-7, and 10-3 to 10-3
James Franklin: Went from 7-6 to 9-4 at Vandy and had the same 7-6 record at PSU as year one.
Urban Meyer: 8-3 to 9-3, 10-2 to 12-0, 9-3 to 13-1 and a NC, and 12-0 w/ a bowl ban to 12-2.

It would appear that while Barnett thinks that year two is the toughest, it certainly isn't borne out by the records of coaches that have won or competed at the highest levels.

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If I were confident that he's truly lost the room, I'd agree with you. I agree that it's damn near impossible to recapture a team. And prior to really thinking about it, I'd have probably said the same thing.

But I really did like Barnett's explanation and it made a ton of sense, especially when combined with the fact that the football team wasn't exactly one big happy family when he took it over. Then you combine that with Kuligowski shitting in the well on his way out the door (and the fact that he blamed Odom for his leaving), Steck's popularity with the squad and his subsequent departure AND the whole Pat Ivey mess plus the fact that there are still folks on this team that didn't really sign up to play for Odom....damn man, I just can't get to 'this guy's completely hopeless' yet.

There are some odd circumstances that surrounded his arrival, his promotion, his SECOND promotion and finally the departure of other guys that were here like Kuligowski, Steck and Ivey. Combine with his noob status and it's just hard to act like this team should be as good as I expected it to be. Again - I thought these damn guys would win 8-9 and could take the East. I'm as flummoxed by this as anyone. But I also have to consider the possibility that I was just a wild-eyed optimist.

Like I said, you may well be right. And if they continue to just take dumps on the field every week I may have to give up as well. But again - I just don't see it as being so obvious or the alternatives so outstanding as to force Sterk's hand.

Though there is something to be said for your point that Sterk's track record suggests that he deserves a football hire. Those are legacy moves and at some point, especially if Martin is the home run that it appears to be, Sterk probably does deserve an opportunity to install his own guy. But man, I hate cutting a good man's throat to effectuate it.

In hindsight I guess you just promote Steckel and his relatively short shelf life then you tell Odom to take the Memphis job and call us in 5 years.

I think taking the Memphis job would of been in his best interest, but considering the results I'm Memphis is thrilled with how things turned out.

As skeptical as I am, even from the start, I would of been thrilled to be sitting here now and have you all tell me I have no ****ing clue while we cruise at Atlanta.

I don't even blame the dude for taking his dream job. I would of done the same.

I do think we are in need of some fresh air and a new path and I don't think the talent is all that bad. Not great, but certainly not 0 conference wins.

I'm not deep in the program, so hell I could be wrong and the kids really are fighting like hell for Odom but dang if it don't look like they have. Not even the Offense is clicking anymore.

With that said, I think he deserves the chance to finish out this year no matter what. At least give him the opportunity to show a glimmer of hope.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Stanley Nickels

From a right-wing publication

And 100% accurate. The school as a whole has went toi.shit. How many more years before MIssouri State becomes our states premier school? 2 maybe 3?