Conspiracy, the Paranormal, the Unexplained and the Esoteric

[keg in kc]

Figure this would have a better chance of surviving in the Media Center than on the main page, and I'll be adding youtube and podcast links from time to time as I come across them, so it fits.

This has been something that's interested me from a very young age, all aspects of mysterious stuff, whether we're talking forgotten or forbidden archeology or civilization (Atlantis, pre-colombian exploration of america, etc), unexplained events (like Tunguska in 1908, the lost Roanoke Island colony, etc), paranormal events like ghosts, the study of ESP and that sort of thing, conspiracy (ranging from JFK to stuff like the perpetration of the drug war and the infilitration of the media by US intelligence) and, of course, UFOs (which to me means "unexplained" not "extraterrestrial" but that's a whole other topic).

Anything could show up, and everybody should feel free to add whatever they like. Just try to keep it as civil and respectful as possible. This is not intended to be a DC thread; it's as much for entertainment purposes as it is to solve all the world's mysteries.

**Although if anybody posts anything from Third Phase of Moon they should probably expect me to kick them in the balls.**

Few things I like to watch or listen to in no particular order (most of this can be found on itunes as well...):

The Paracast
Binall of America
The Gralian Report
The Paranormal Report
Dark City
Radio Misterioso
Open Minds (mostly their podcast)

That's it for now, just wanted to get this started. Been thinking about doing it for a while...

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by frankotank

you've got some very interesting posts in here....some interesting ideas. one could make an argument that entertaining the idea of ufo's being real while at the same time discounting the possibility that after life, angels and demons could be real as well......one could argue that this seems illogical?

I never dismissed the possibility.

Stating what my personal beliefs are about anything should never be construed as either an argument for or against what anyone else believes, it's simply a statement about what I at the time (and those beliefs can and do change over time). I'm not trying to convince or convert or dismiss or really to do anything but attempt to understand and verbalize the things that I myself believe.

As far as the afterlife goes, I actually do think it's possible that there is one. I just don't happen to believe in the concept of God as Santa Claus, keeping track of how naughty and nice you are moment-by-moment and sending you to paradise or brimstone based on your marks in the eternal notebook. I don't know if we have a 'soul' in the christian sense. Maybe yes maybe no. I do think it's possible that there's more to human consciousness than what happens between birth and death. Now, whether that can be proven one way or another is another question. Maybe when we die it all fades to black and we're done. Maybe when we die we wake up somewhere else. I have no way of knowing...

Basically just take anything in terms of belief as coming with a caveat that I openly acknowledge that what I believe could be wrong...

And keep in mind that when we're talking about things like religion and what happens after we die we're talking about belief structures that can't really be logical.

I should also clarify that I wasn't as much saying I don't believe non-human spirits or entities can exist. I'm saying I don't believe the Bible is anything more than a collection of stories written by people, I don't think it's representative of any kind of esoteric reality about the universe and I don't believe that the Judeo-Christian interpretation of the paranormal carries any more weight than any other mythology.

In any case, this kind of stuff is hard to express, and people tend to get very defensive about it whichever side of the religious spectrum they land on, which is the main reason I tend to try to keep religion out of the discussion.

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I never dismissed the possibility.

Stating what my personal beliefs are about anything should never be construed as either an argument for or against what anyone else believes, it's simply a statement about what I at the time (and those beliefs can and do change over time). I'm not trying to convince or convert or dismiss or really to do anything but attempt to understand and verbalize the things that I myself believe.

As far as the afterlife goes, I actually do think it's possible that there is one. I just don't happen to believe in the concept of God as Santa Claus, keeping track of how naughty and nice you are moment-by-moment and sending you to paradise or brimstone based on your marks in the eternal notebook. I don't know if we have a 'soul' in the christian sense. Maybe yes maybe no. I do think it's possible that there's more to human consciousness than what happens between birth and death. Now, whether that can be proven one way or another is another question. Maybe when we die it all fades to black and we're done. Maybe when we die we wake up somewhere else. I have no way of knowing...

Basically just take anything in terms of belief as coming with a caveat that I openly acknowledge that what I believe could be wrong...

And keep in mind that when we're talking about things like religion and what happens after we die we're talking about belief structures that can't really be logical.

I should also clarify that I wasn't as much saying I don't believe non-human spirits or entities can exist. I'm saying I don't believe the Bible is anything more than a collection of stories written by people, I don't think it's representative of any kind of esoteric reality about the universe and I don't believe that the Judeo-Christian interpretation of the paranormal carries any more weight than any other mythology.

well said my good sir.
religion aside...I've viewed shows and read some very intriguing near death experiences.
I've read many suggestions that aliens/ghosts/heaven/hell could simply be glimpses of another dimension.

one of your posts got me thinking about this. what if....when we die and our sight is taken from us....our "eyeball" sight....we are still there in a different form and we see with new eyes in a different way. we see....across dimensions.... we see MORE.

DUN DUN DUN!

[Easy 6]

So frankotank, you got the info and I assume you've watched that show on Bentwaters by now... what are your thoughts?

For me, everyone involved is incredibly credible, but its the man that was in charge of the airstrip control tower -not just some private- but the guy in charge of it coming right out and saying... "yes, this huge craft came and hovered right in front of the windows of the control tower", that really gets me.

I dont know how anyone could laugh that off, thats a guy used to seeing all manner of flying objects in his work area... he didnt mistake a damn thing, IMO.

Just curious what you thought about it.

[Simply Red]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Happy Friday the 13th

oh shit - I didn't even know that until I read this - or didn't 'realize' it anyway.

[keg in kc]

I haven't ever seen anyone laugh rendlesham off, at least not aside from debunkers who won't take any case seriously.

However... I don't think Jim Penniston did either himself or the case any favors coming out with that binary code 30 years after the fact. I question anything that comes from regression hypnosis and I question any witness whose story changes over time (Penniston's has changed several times - as I recall his original report does not even include a physical encounter with a craft). That's part of the reason I'm a fan of Travis Walton's encounter: none of their testimony has changed over time. Although with Penniston, I'm not sure that his change in testimony is even his own fault. There's some suspicion that both he and John Burroughs had their minds/memory tampered with during debriefing.

But while I have questions about Penniston, I think the rest of the case is extremely intriguing. In fact I heard the entire Halt recording a week or two ago and it's really interesting. I think Larry Warren, the original whistleblower on the case, is intriguing as well.

It's one of my favorite cases (obviously)...

[Jerm]

Rendledsham is 1a for me right before Roswell as far as alien/UFO stories go...incredible story.

[keg in kc]

I think I heard Nick Redfern tell a wacky story in an old interview when his deadly ufo encounter book came out about how the rendlesham craft was recovered, brought back via navy ship to somewhere on the Texas gulf coast, and while it was being unloaded something happened and it ended up crushing a little old lady.

I'd say I'd look it up but I don't own the book and he's done approximately 8 billion radio appearances.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I haven't ever seen anyone laugh rendlesham off, at least not aside from debunkers who won't take any case seriously.

However... I don't think Jim Penniston did either himself or the case any favors coming out with that binary code 30 years after the fact. I question anything that comes from regression hypnosis and I question any witness whose story changes over time (Penniston's has changed several times - as I recall his original report does not even include a physical encounter with a craft). That's part of the reason I'm a fan of Travis Walton's encounter: none of their testimony has changed over time. Although with Penniston, I'm not sure that his change in testimony is even his own fault. There's some suspicion that both he and John Burroughs had their minds/memory tampered with during debriefing.

But while I have questions about Penniston, I think the rest of the case is extremely intriguing. In fact I heard the entire Halt recording a week or two ago and it's really interesting. I think Larry Warren, the original whistleblower on the case, is intriguing as well.

It's one of my favorite cases (obviously)...

I've heard Pennistons name and know it well, yet it would seem that most of what I've read about him was long ago when I was just getting serious about researching this subject.

What is his connection to Bentwaters?

And yes, the Walton situation is just another ironclad brick in the wall... all those guys, all those chances to **** up in their testimony over all these years, all of the polygraphs passed etc etc etc.

This is one of those, just like the Bigelow Ranch, situations where I can only say... read the book, Waltons book is a mindblowing piece of truth. For those unwilling or unable to find and read the book, just google it and if that episode of Paranormal Witness doesnt come up, then watch whats available.

Although I did post that entire episode in another thread here a year or two ago... good luck finding it without the search function, though (man, how can we fix that search function problem mods, what do you need?).

The FBI, among many many others, tried to poke holes in their story and FAILED miserably.

[keg in kc]

John Burroughs and Jim Penniston were the first two sent into the forest to investigate the sighting on the first night. They're the initial two direct witnesses for the entire incident.

[Jerm]

The guys were crying in that episode...grown, old men crying about how it affected them. Yeah there was no bullshit there...

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

John Burroughs and Jim Penniston were the first two sent into the forest to investigate the sighting on the first night. They're the initial two direct witnesses for the entire incident.

Ah, well no wonder the names familiar lol... I just reintroduced myself to the case via the show Paranormal Witness the other day and it interviewed both of them.

You said earlier that maybe Pennistons testimony left you a little leary, without me going back to look, how so again? For me, theres no discounting one guys witness because the other was there as well... if either of those guys were even CLOSE to being frauds, the government would've long ago did a hackjob on them that would make even Leatherface blush.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Jerm

The guys were crying in that episode...grown, old men crying about how it affected them. Yeah there was no bullshit there...

Awe and fear is a potent combination, I know exactly what they're feeling.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Awe and fear is a potent combination, I know exactly what they're feeling.

I was very emtional after our investigstion the other night...not crying or anything but it takes a toll on you and you run through the gambit of everything when investigating, esp. a place that heavy.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Jerm

I was very emtional after our investigstion the other night...not crying or anything but it takes a toll on you and you run through the gambit of everything when investigating, esp. a place that heavy.

So glad to know that theres another open minded explorer of life out there, and I dont doubt you one little bit... without trying to define them, I will atleast say that there most certainly are forces in our world far beyond our understanding that can have profound effects on us.

Do you think that ghost encounters are atleast partially human oriented, or are you from the other school that believe there are no human spirits left wandering this earth, that they are all the work of evil entities?

I'm honestly not sure where I land, but I admit to leanings towards non-human entities playing a game.

[Jerm]

Human spirits and evil/demonic entities...I believe they all inhabit the same dimension or realm if you will that's between ours and being "fully gone" if that makes sense.

It's really cool to know in some of these locations the history that you're interacting with...