StarTrek: "Undiscovered Country" - best Trek movie of all time?

[Megatron96]

Is it possible that "Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country" is the best Star Trek Original Series movie, and not "Star Trek: Wrath of Khan," as most people have always thought?

Seriously important stuff we're thinking about over here . . .

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Watch at your risk.

No way am I watching that!

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Frazod

What would have been the best part of Undiscovered County sadly never happened. Meyer wanted the Valeris character to be Saavik, but Roddenberry shot it down. That would have made her betrayal of Kirk and Spock far more poignant.

I did not know that. That would've been really good. Wonder why GRod shot the idea down?

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I did not know that. That would've been really good. Wonder why GRod shot the idea down?

It seems like towards the end of his life, Roddenberry was far more of a hindrance than a help; a sick, cranky old man trying to hold onto all the creative power of his baby even as his ability do to continued to slip away.

From Wikipedia:

Star Trek's creator, Gene Roddenberry, who wielded significant influence despite his ill health, hated the script. Meyer's first meeting with Roddenberry resulted in Meyer storming out of the room within five minutes. As with Meyer's previous Star Trek film (The Wrath of Khan), the script had strong military overtones, with a naval theme present throughout. Far from being idealized, the characters were shown as bigoted and flawed. In contrast to Roddenberry's vision of the future, Meyer thought there was no evidence that bigotry would disappear by the 23rd century. When Roddenberry protested about the villainization of Saavik, Meyer replied that "I created Saavik. She was not Gene's. If he doesn't like what I plan on doing with her, maybe he should give back the money he's made off my films. Maybe then I'll care what he has to say." After the stormy first meeting, a group including Meyer, Roddenberry, and producer Ralph Winter discussed the revised draft. Roddenberry would voice his disapproval of elements of the script line by line, and he and Meyer would square off about them while Winter took notes. Overall, the tone of the meeting was conciliatory, but the producers ultimately ignored many of Roddenberry's concerns. By February 13, 1991, the film was officially put into production with the agreement it would be in theaters by the end of the year.

From the IMDb trivia page:

Nicholas Meyer met with Gene Roddenberry following a rough cut screening, to fulfill Roddenberry's role as creative consultant. Roddenberry, who was in failing health at the time, was bound to a wheelchair, and had to be hooked up to an oxygen tank. Despite his frailty, Roddenberry demanded certain cuts to the film and, according to Meyer, engaged him in a heated argument. Roddenberry died several days after the meeting, and Meyer has expressed deep regret over his behavior in the meeting, not realizing just how sick Roddenberry really was at the time.

Valeris was originally written to be Saavik, Spock's trainee from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982), Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (1984) and Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986) lending greater impact to her character's betrayal. However, Gene Roddenberry objected to the character's actions, ending up in a battle with Nicholas Meyer (who believed the character Saavik was his to do with as he pleased). Roddenberry won the dispute and the character was rewritten into Valeris, who is played by Kim Cattrall. Cattrall wanted to play a different character rather than be the third incarnation of Saavik, following Kirstie Alley and Robin Curtis. Meyer had originally wanted Cattrall to play Saavik back in 1982, but scheduling conflicts prevented her from working on Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (1984), as she was filming Police Academy (1984) at the time. She initially turned down the role of Valeris, thinking she was to play Saavik. Upon finding out she was to play a new character, she agreed. Cattrall also designed her own hairstyle for the role of Valeris, and also came up with the idea to completely shave off her sideburns in order to more prominently show her Vulcan ears.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Frazod

It seems like towards the end of his life, Roddenberry was far more of a hindrance than a help; a sick, cranky old man trying to hold onto all the creative power of his baby even as his ability do to continued to slip away.

From Wikipedia:



From the IMDb trivia page:

Thanks. Great stuff. Gfy.

[RINGLEADER]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Wrath of Khan was an amazing film and what was even more amazing was doing a Q&A with Nicholas Meyer after the first screening of the film back in 1982. The VFX weren't finished and there were a few scenes that needed to be re-shot but it was a really incredible experience.

My second favorite is First Contact. That movie took Trek lore to 11 and was a super fun movie to boot. Great casting all around, especially Zefram Cochrane.

I probably enjoyed IV and VI about the same although they're completely different in terms of tone.

The rest are "okay" although Generations is completely unwatchable for me, as are the other two TNG movies. The way they killed off Kirk was ridiculous and in no way, shape or form, honored the character, IMO.

I agree with this post 100%.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

I agree with this post 100%.

Hey, by chance, were you there at the Metcalf theater in 1982 when Nicholas Meyer screened the nearly completed Wrath of Khan?

I remember that it was in the larger of the two theaters there.

[eDave]

Of the Kirk era, Undiscovered Country is my least favorite. Generations is not included in the survey.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by eDave

Of the Kirk era, Undiscovered Country is my least favorite.

Seriously? You're gonna have to explain that at some point. It's obviously better than "Voyage Home," and "Final Frontier."

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Hey, by chance, were you there at the Metcalf theater in 1982 when Nicholas Meyer screened the nearly completed Wrath of Khan?

I remember that it was in the larger of the two theaters there.

Was that the old Glenwood theater? That screen was great.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Was that the old Glenwood theater? That screen was great.

No, the Glenwood was off of 91st and Metcalf while Metcalf Theater was on the backside of Metcalf Mall, where The Jones Store was the anchor tenant.

[Stryker]

Ok, ST II is the ultimate hands down. #2 is Undiscovered Country and #3 is The Search for Spock. My .02

[MMXcalibur]

Originally Posted by Frazod

You won't like First Contact nearly as much as you once did if you watch this:



Plinkett makes some excellent points, too.

Watch at your risk.

You are of high quality to have posted a Mr. Plinkett review.
I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[RINGLEADER]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Hey, by chance, were you there at the Metcalf theater in 1982 when Nicholas Meyer screened the nearly completed Wrath of Khan?

I remember that it was in the larger of the two theaters there.

No I was still in KC then but would get to see early screenings of The Karate Kid, Gremlins, and Ghostbusters at local KC theaters. Coincidentally, I watched a series of interviews and Q&As with Meyer on YouTube last weekend and learned that the original title for TWoK was The Undiscovered Country.

Edit: I see you are referencing KC theater. I didn’t see this but it was great loving movies in KC in the 80s. All the major film companies screened movies months in advance in KC back then.

[Fishpicker]

Originally Posted by Frazod

I'm not a big fan of IV either. I mean, it's a fun, well-made movie, but to me it's not really Star Trek; it's more like Star Trek vacations in San Francisco.

Star Trek needs a good villain. A mindless alien probe trying to talk to whales just doesn't cut it.

my favorite part of IV... as soon as Sulu gets some cash, he decides to split off from his team and go to the docks to talk to sailors.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

No I was still in KC then but would get to see early screenings of The Karate Kid, Gremlins, and Ghostbusters at local KC theaters. Coincidentally, I watched a series of interviews and Q&As with Meyer on YouTube last weekend and learned that the original title for TWoK was The Undiscovered Country.

That's cool! I'll have to check that out.

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

Edit: I see you are referencing KC theater. I didn’t see this but it was great loving movies in KC in the 80s. All the major film companies screened movies months in advance in KC back then.

I was fortunate in that my Dad LOVED taking us to movies all the time, from the Glenwood to Metcalf Theaters to Ranch Mart and Oak Park. The Trailridge Theater on 75th and Nieman in Shawnee became a $1 dollar theater in my early teens so we'd often go there during the school week to catch a movie.

I realize that movie theaters are far nicer, have much better sound systems, larger screens, reclining chairs and so on but there was just something special about seeing movies in the 70's and 80's - probably because there was more anticipation and 90% less content available than today.