2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Just how we practice! pic.twitter.com/d4DFd4KWKC

— Cafe jr (@Cafejr40) August 5, 2018

Just a reminder of one of the most telling Mike Matheny quotes of all time:

"I don’t know how ‘fun’ and ‘compete’ work together. It makes no sense to me..."

For all the stuff he said after getting fired about how much he loved managing and how he never thought he could enjoy something more than playing until he got that job, I don't buy it for a second. That miserable bastard looked by all outward appearances to HATE that job.

And it was evident in the Bataan Death March manner in which the guys played the game.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Would you settle for a Kris Bryant?

Because my sweet baboo, Nolan Gorman, is kicking some ass right now in rookie ball

Except if he pans out we might get our version by age 21 instead of 23.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Would you settle for a Kris Bryant?

Because my sweet baboo, Nolan Gorman, is kicking some ass right now in rookie ball

Four HRs in the last week alone

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Would you settle for a Kris Bryant?

Kris Bryant didnt really fall, though. The Cubs tanked to rebuild at the top of the draft when they were in the same position the Cardinals are in now, something the Cardinals are to prideful to do... Cardinals way and all.

You'll need more than a Kris Bryant though. As good as he is, he is not very clutch. The last 2 seasons he's been at best a league average hitter with RISP while posting sub .700 OPS numbers with 2 outs and RISP or when the game is late and close.

I guess you could make the argument that teams are pitching around him, if you believe teams want to put men on for Rizzo, but then you compare him to the truly great hitters and they still carry very good numbers in those situations.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Kris Bryant didnt really fall, though. The Cubs tanked to rebuild at the top of the draft when they were in the same position the Cardinals are in now, something the Cardinals are to prideful to do... Cardinals way and all.

It is a bit of stretch even for a Cubbie fan to say the Cards are in the same position as the Cubs were.

The Cubs were 75-87, 71-91, and 61-91 (a .426 "winning percentage") in the 3 years prior to drafting Bryant. The Cards had a combined .553 winning percentage (no losing years) the past 3 seasons prior to drafting Gorman.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by VAChief

It is a bit of stretch even for a Cubbie fan to say the Cards are in the same position as the Cubs were.

The Cubs were 75-87, 71-91, and 61-91 (a .426 "winning percentage") in the 3 years prior to drafting Bryant. The Cards had a combined .553 winning percentage (no losing years) the past 3 seasons prior to drafting Gorman.

You fail to understand that prior to drafting Kris Bryant the Cubs began selling off the aging core they carried through the 2000's. Something the Cards wont do, as I already explained.

The Cardinals are trying to board up a leaky hull. The Cubs blew it up with dynamite.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

You fail to understand that prior to drafting Kris Bryant the Cubs began selling off the aging core they carried through the 2000's. Something the Cards wont do, as I already explained.

The Cardinals are trying to board up a leaky hull. The Cubs blew it up with dynamite.

The Cards have been to 10 World Series in my lifetime or roughly once every 5 years. I'm guessing that is a tad more frequent than your experience.

Talk about an aging core. Your starting pitchers are not only mediocre their average age is now 31. The youngest is 29. You no longer have any real prospects on the farm of any real value to turn over in trades. Your best hope in the next few years of replacing the codgers you have on the hill right now is choosing wisely in the free agent market and hoping you don't land another Yu debacle.

We have 9 young pitchers to chose from as starters (not counting Tyson Ross, because we don't know how they will use him and likely not a piece moving forward anyway). Our AVERAGE age of our starters is 25...and we still have a shot at the wild card. The future is hardly a dim one. Mo could still mess it up, but no reason to blow it up yet.

[BigRedChief]

O’Neill to the 10 day DL with a groin.

The Cuban born Adonis Garcia up from AAA. I thought he wasn’t doing very good this year but the google machine tells us that in July he started hitting good. After a visit from Budaska to fix his swing.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

O’Neill to the 10 day DL with a groin.

The Cuban born Garcia up from AAA. I thought he wasn’t doing very good this year but the google machine tells us that in July he started hitting good. After a visit from Budaska to fix his swing.

I was high on him going into this year. He has tools you can't teach (arm, speed). As you said he got off to a rough start, but apparently has found it again and really took off the last month. He is hitting for power and not striking out as much. The dude can flat fly and gives you versatility in that he is another one that can play center or either corner.

I anxious to see if he can translate up here.

[VAChief]

I'm surprised in some regards it wasn't Lane Thomas because I think they have to add him to the 40 man or lose him after the season. I could be wrong, but I think that was the case. It could just mean they will do that later, and want to see him get regular reps at AAA. He is another possible sleeper who could be a keeper.

[DJ's left nut]

He's been murdering the ball lately; PCL player of the month in July.

That said - he didn't need to be added to the 40 man to stay out of the Rule 5 this offseason and the Cardinals will have yet another roster crunch heading into the Rule 5 draft.

Lane Thomas, OTOH, would have needed to be added to be protected. So they were likely to add him to the 40 man in the off-season anyway - why not do it now and call him up instead? Then you get JAG through the offseason and past the Rule 5 without worrying about losing him. If you need to add him to the 40 next spring because he's played his way onto the team, you do it then.

They essentially just undid the roster flexibility they gained through the Mercado trade. They replaced Mercado with 2 guys who didn't need to be on the 40 and it appeared to be planning for the '18 offseason and Rule 5 draft. Now they've used that spot up again.

That sends a loud signal to me that they're cutting Fowler outright or trading him for whatever salary relief they can get. Gregerson as well. There's just not a way for them to protect guys like Helsley, Fernandez and Schrock if they keep those 2. They're going to be tight against it either way and I suspect that could lead to them leaving Fernandez and Wadye Infante exposed. Thomas will be a close call but I think that's why they sent him to AAA - they need to know if he's worth protecting.

They won't take any chances with Cabrera or Helsley; unlikely with Schrock either given the lack of middle-infield depth and advanced lefty sticks in the high minors. For the life of me I cannot figure out of Montero or Urias need to be protected but I think Montero does; he'll definitely get added if so. Derian Gonzalez may end up out-righted to clear the spot after he struggled in the AAA this year and had to be sent down.

I just feel like they put themselves back into a numbers crunch come December when the Rule 5 starts up...

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I was high on him going into this year. He has tools you can't teach (arm, speed). As you said he got off to a rough start, but apparently has found it again and really took off the last month. He is hitting for power and not striking out as much. The dude can flat fly and gives you versatility in that he is another one that can play center or either corner.

I anxious to see if he can translate up here.

You sure you're thinking of the right guy?

JAG isn't a burner by any stretch. He has a CANNON in right, but if you're putting him in center you done ****ed up, IMO...

Among our 'high level' OFers, he was probably the least athletic. Bader, O'Neill, Arozarena, Mercado and Thomas are all better runners than he is. Moreover, he absolutely has some strikeout issues; chases too many pitches (though he punishes strikes).

He's probably an average runner at this level. Nothing like watching Martinez try to play RF or anything like that, but defense isn't a strength either.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I'm surprised in some regards it wasn't Lane Thomas because I think they have to add him to the 40 man or lose him after the season. I could be wrong, but I think that was the case. It could just mean they will do that later, and want to see him get regular reps at AAA. He is another possible sleeper who could be a keeper.

**** you - I started my post first, you just typed less.

Like you, I'm almost certain Thomas will need to be added and I'd have just gone ahead and called him up.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by jd1020

. The last 2 seasons he's been at best a league average hitter with RISP while posting sub .700 OPS numbers with 2 outs and RISP or when the game is late and close.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You sure you're thinking of the right guy?

JAG isn't a burner by any stretch. He has a CANNON in right, but if you're putting him in center you done ****ed up, IMO...

Among our 'high level' OFers, he was probably the least athletic. Bader, O'Neill, Arozarena, Mercado and Thomas are all better runners than he is. Moreover, he absolutely has some strikeout issues; chases too many pitches (though he punishes strikes).

He's probably an average runner at this level. Nothing like watching Martinez try to play RF or anything like that, but defense isn't a strength either.

I saw him run at spring training, he looked very quick getting down the line and going first to third. I guess it could have been an illusion, but he looked quicker and faster than Bader. Maybe I had my "Wong" glasses on that make you look faster than you really are.