****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

THIS is the only point many of us have been trying to make. We don't think our offense looks great either, but they've been able to win a SB with a group that looks remarkably like the one we have now.

I'm all for ways to improve it through trades, scheme, rotations, etc, but I'm willing to trust that the organization sees what we do and will have things in a better place by the playoffs.

Yeah.....same.

Like I said earlier, the Toney injury just really derailed this thing. It's obvious they had big plans for the kid and you can see why.

Now they're kinda having to figure it out on the fly.

But in the grand scheme of things, they probably realize more than we do that they have time. Most of this is just mental masturbation for us.

Win games, get to January healthy. That's their goal now with this group. It's what Bill and Tom did so well for so long.

Once the calendar turns to November, start ramping things up where you want them to be. Win games, but that's really all that matters.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't understand the MVS part. Dude has made some really tough catches for them this year. Just kinda weird.

Last night was the typical "Chiefs against a good defense with a bad offense" game. After that first pick he threw, it was a tale as old as time with Andy.

He had that first touch catch that I thought he could've brought in but he didn't maintain it through contact.

Once that happen he kinda got the Moore treatment.

But like you, when I make a specific point to watch the WRs, MVS is the guy I see who is out there looking like an NFL receiver. And he's a guy who's willing to take contact to make the play.

I don't really understand the way they've pigeonholed him into a clearout guy. He seems to be used primarily to draw safety attention rather than as a real part of the progression. And given what we're getting elsewhere {cough}Moorestillsucks{coughcough} then I think we should get away from that and have him actually used as part of the progression.

He can be more than we're treating him has, IMO.

[Kman34]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I don't see how you can watch this team right now and think anything of than it's Kelce + a bunch of dudes.

Skyy is simply not giving us enough. Gray makes a play occasionally but he is not the 3rd rounder we invested in him. Toney looks very good, but the guy is Mr. Glass.

There are some things the Chiefs can do to fix this, that being said.

They aren't doing enough to get MVS involved, and eventually they're going to have to shelve Skyy for Rice. They're going to need to get Montrell Washington involved some as the Z this team desperately needs. And Clyde is getting carries right now to save Pacheco + McKinnon. I imagine that, if at full strength, the RB snaps will be 50/50 Pacheco/McKinnon. And of course, if Toney is healthy, I think this WR room slots in nicely.

The nice thing about having a depth chart this stout, is that you can continue to tinker as the season goes along.

And I think, if I had to predict the depth chart in December, Kelce is getting a lot more snaps, MVS leads the WRs in snaps, Toney is hopefully healthy, and Rice is getting a lot more action with Skyy benched, with Watson rotating in occasionally between the 20s, and Justyn Ross rotating in occasionally in the red zone.

Clyde will get benched, and Pacheco dominates the early down touches while McKinnon dominates the 3rd down touches.

Right now, the Chiefs are tinkering with a group that isn't giving them a lot, but they're throwing them out there against inferior opponents early to see what translates.

But Skyy, Clyde, and Richie James are early candidates for riding the pine in December.

Things aren’t really any different than last year…

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Eh, I think he has plenty of trust in his OTs. He's not consistently bailing.

I mean sure, he may be worried about a flag being thrown, but I'm not seeing him typically being concerned about being hit.

But yeah, he doesn't seem to have much confidence in his WRs at all. And I still say he just needs to get over that - throw them the ball. If they **** it up, it's on them and sooner or later they'll get replaced.

But hero ball isn't going forward. You're not gonna win 3 playoff games doing that. You need to develop some chemistry with them and the only way to do that is to battle through the rough spots.

He appears content to do that with Rice - he keeps throwing him the ball even after his inevitable first target drop. But he ignores Moore almost immediately and seems to even get down on MVS pretty quickly.

The guys he seems comfortable throwing to are Kelce, Toney and Rice and that's even after Toney's historically bad week 1. So there must be things happening in practice that explain a lot of it.

Before we ever drafted Rice, I thought he and Toney would be a fantastic 1-2 punch. They both play angry, are outstanding after the catch. Toney gives you a little more wiggle and Rice gives you a little more physical. I think they both have Pro Bowl upside.

But, yeah, they got some developing (and healing) to do.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

The team doesn't have a Z, and Washington is a natural for the role.

I bet he gets some there by November.

I bet this goes about as well as your "McDuffie isn't ready" take.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Not my fault that you're completely oblivious that this is OKchiefs schtick.

He only posts if the Chiefs lose or struggle. He bitches specifically about one position group non-stop. It's used to be corners for a while, but now it's WRs. His entire purpose here is to bitch.

I'd block him, if he bothered me that much. I'm not your boss but you don't need to act like an orangutan because a troll trolls.

Just block him.

[O.city]

Yeah, Rice and Toney are your 1,2 guys going forward long term. Ross is the package guy, but I'm guessing that may ramp up some here pretty soon.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I'd block him, if he bothered me that much. I'm not your boss but you don't need to act like an orangutan because a troll trolls.

Just block him.

How about you lick my ass instead?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Perfect example of why nobody takes anything Direckshun says seriously.

Who is the dynamic speed threat that the Chiefs can throw out for gadget plays?

Do you have any recollection of how important that position is to an Andy Reid offense?

Who would you pick as the #1 person to take that slot on this team right now, if you absolutely had to?

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

The team doesn't have a Z, and Washington is a natural for the role.

I bet he gets some there by November.

I'll do an offseason ban bet with you on this.

[Sassy Squatch]

According to PFR, so far the WR snaps for the season (rounded to nearest 1%) are:

MVS 66%
Moore 64%

This is a pretty massive part of the problem. Moore has fifteen targets on the season. MVS has NINE.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think that's fair -- but I do think if you stack up

2022 Kelce
JuJu
MVS
Skyy
Watson
Toney

against

2023 Kelce
MVS
Skyy
Rice
Watson
Toney

Then your 2022 depth chart is probably better.

Really, all of this gets fixed if Toney can just stay healthy for like 6 games in a row. Toney is a legit #1 talent, a true separator down the field.

Once that happens, MVS and Rice start taking #2 and #3 snaps, and Skyy can be rotated in a little bit.

There's something to be said for having 1s play 1 snaps, and 2s and 3s playing role player snaps.

Exactly.

I'm giving up on Moore. He's just bad. So instead of saying Moore replaces JJSS and Rice provides an upgrade at WR3, I'm going to say that by the end of the year, Rice will be better than what JJSS was at the end of last season. And Toney will be more experienced and hopefully healthy.

So at that point your December 2022 depth chart is:

Kelce
JJSS (gimpy as ****)
Toney (Still green and also gimpy)
MVS (Trying to develop chemistry)
Watson
Moore (sucks)

Vs 2023:

Kelce (a year older than 2022)
Rice (ideally an upgrade on JJSS to offset the age related decline of Kelce)
Toney (Ideally healthier and more comfortable in the offense)
MVS (maybe he's finally developed chemistry?)
Watson
Moore (still sucks)


I mean I wouldn't even say it's unlikely that we're better at WR by the end of the season than we were at the end of last season. I'd say it's more likely than not that we are because Rice seems like a gimme to be better than what JJSS ended up.

Man Moore has created some headaches. Guy just hasn't shown a damn thing out there.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah.....same.

Like I said earlier, the Toney injury just really derailed this thing. It's obvious they had big plans for the kid and you can see why.

Now they're kinda having to figure it out on the fly.

But in the grand scheme of things, they probably realize more than we do that they have time. Most of this is just mental masturbation for us.

Win games, get to January healthy. That's their goal now with this group. It's what Bill and Tom did so well for so long.

Once the calendar turns to November, start ramping things up where you want them to be. Win games, but that's really all that matters.

A toney injury shouldn't derail anything. There was no way they went into the season expecting him to stay healthy. That's something they should/would have taken into account and planned for.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

I'll do an offseason ban bet with you on this.

I'd rather not. I'm not certain, I'm just confident.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

How about you lick my ass instead?

You're really testing my "I'll try anything once" approach to the boudoir...