Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes?

[Deberg_1990]

We are starting to see some people saying Josh Allen is/will be better than Patrick Mahomes. I think it’s ridiculous, but there are people that feel that way. I was wondering if anyone here would choose Josh over Mahomes. So the choice is simple: who would you rather have as QB for the next 12 years? Allen Or Mahomes?

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by daquix

The Titans dropped 5 guys in coverage deep and he was taken what was given to him.

He is not on Mahomes level. I dont understand how that comparison ever came up.

But tight window throws ARE his wheel house. Its what he excels in (with running).

I've seen so many of his throws that are inaccurate and they're almost always on open guys. It's crazy.

He has a big arm so he can gun it in. Watch the NE, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh games last year. When there is pressure and his first read is taken away he looks low end.

Tenny plays zone which he likes but at least they also bracketed the primary receivers (Diggs) which made him uncomfortable.

His best game last year was against Dallas (soft zone).

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by daquix

I agree that Allen is not on Mahomes level.

But what exactly are you referring to in the game the other night?

Allen was 63% for 260 yards, 2 TD's and 2 INT's (one was a tipped pass, not his fault).

He didn't exactly shit the bed or anything.

And this season:

Allen: 69% for 1,589 yards, 17 TD's and 3 INT's
Mahomes: 64% for 1,474 yards, 15 TD's, and 1 INT's

I don't think I'll ever understand the disrespect some have for Allen.

Did I disrespect Allen? Not sure that I did.

We could argue about the tipped pass and whose fault that was, but let's skip that for now.

My point was simply that Josh Allen isn't on the same level as Mahomes when it comes to pre-snap and post-snap reads.

For instance;

He's not making any/good adjustments or at the line pre-snap, so apparently he isn't seeing the blitz before the snap much of the time. Fortunately for him, the Titans don't have a very good pass rush.

Then once the ball was snapped, when the pressure did come, he seemed surprised by it, which was when he tended to make bad decisions.

He also showed a tendency to lock onto receivers from the snap, which would've have been catastrophic for him against a better secondary.

Again, I don't believe I'm being disrespectful as much as just brutally honest about what I saw. Do I think that was his best game? No.

Do I think he can and will improve? Sure, probably.

But the issues I described above aren't from just the Titans game. These are issues he had last year in the game against the Texans. And the same issues he showed against the Rams a couple weeks ago. MccDermott is doing a great job this season hiding these issues for the most part, but they're obviously still there, and Josh is going to have to grow past those issues at some point to really be seriously considered a top tier QB, much less compared with Patrick.

[diqlix]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Did I disrespect Allen? Not sure that I did.

We could argue about the tipped pass and whose fault that was, but let's skip that for now.

My point was simply that Josh Allen isn't on the same level as Mahomes when it comes to pre-snap and post-snap reads.

For instance;

He's not making any/good adjustments or at the line pre-snap, so apparently he isn't seeing the blitz before the snap much of the time. Fortunately for him, the Titans don't have a very good pass rush.

Then once the ball was snapped, when the pressure did come, he seemed surprised by it, which was when he tended to make bad decisions.

He also showed a tendency to lock onto receivers from the snap, which would've have been catastrophic for him against a better secondary.

Again, I don't believe I'm being disrespectful as much as just brutally honest about what I saw. Do I think that was his best game? No.

Do I think he can and will improve? Sure, probably.

But the issues I described above aren't from just the Titans game. These are issues he had last year in the game against the Texans. And the same issues he showed against the Rams a couple weeks ago. MccDermott is doing a great job this season hiding these issues for the most part, but they're obviously still there, and Josh is going to have to grow past those issues at some point to really be seriously considered a top tier QB, much less compared with Patrick.

Yeah he's not on Mahomes level and thats for dang sure.

Though someone could make some of the same arguments about Mahomes if they only watched last weeks game. He was 51% passing for goodness sake.

[Mr. Kotter]

Is this a rhetorical question?

Right now, no. Down the line, who knows?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by daquix

Yeah he's not on Mahomes level and thats for dang sure.

Though someone could make some of the same arguments about Mahomes if they only watched last weeks game. He was 51% passing for goodness sake.

Just so it's clear, you're talking to a group of people here that watches 4-5 (or more) games a weekend.

There's no "only watched last week's game" about it. A lot of us watch every game televised in our area. There's people here who watch the All 22 for every game, every week.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by daquix

Yeah he's not on Mahomes level and thats for dang sure.

Though someone could make some of the same arguments about Mahomes if they only watched last weeks game. He was 51% passing for goodness sake.

First of all, one stat line does not a player make. Especially if we're talking about just one game. Anyone can have a bad game, just as anyone can have a really great game.

But the real difference here is that Patrick's completion rate last week was the outlier, not even close to the norm.

Meanwhile, Josh Allen's issues that I noted and described above, those have been his issues since Day 1, and continue to be his issues now.

So while Mahomes had a below average-for-him completion rate one time in the last 13 or 14 games, Allen continues to struggle with his pre-snap reads, making adjustments at the line, post-snap reads, and staring down receivers, which are the same issues he had as a rookie.

So apples vs. oranges . . .

[diqlix]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

First of all, one stat line does not a player make. Especially if we're talking about just one game. Anyone can have a bad game, just as anyone can have a really great game.

But the real difference here is that Patrick's completion rate last week was the outlier, not even close to the norm.

Meanwhile, Josh Allen's issues that I noted and described above, those have been his issues since Day 1, and continue to be his issues now.

So while Mahomes had a below average-for-him completion rate one time in the last 13 or 14 games, Allen continues to struggle with his pre-snap reads, making adjustments at the line, post-snap reads, and staring down receivers, which are the same issues he had as a rookie.

So apples vs. oranges . . .

Agreed.

[keg in kc]

Mahomes has an inherent advantage in intelligence and recognition, which is why he's reached the stratosphere so quickly, and why guys like Lamar or Allen, with remarkable athletic attributes of their own, just aren't on his level, and likely won't ever be, because Mahomes' level isn't going to remain static.

It's also telling that an 'off' day for mahomes is pretty much an average to above day for anybody else.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

I still can't believe this is a legitimate thread

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

I still can't believe this is a legitimate thread

It's not. It's a DeBerg thread.

[MahomesMagic]

Josh Allen, MVP Candidate or Colin Kaepernick?

[Deberg_1990]

Allen keeping his team in it. Impressed

[Bewbies]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Allen keeping his team in it. Impressed

Not even the refs were impressed with his first half. They had to help so much it was obvious.

He sucks.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Allen keeping his team in it. Impressed

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I might have to apologize to you. CEH looks really good tonight