Cardinals Release WR DeAndre Hopkins [Titans, 2yr/$26 million]

[Dante84]

Interesting

Cardinals released DeAndre Hopkins. pic.twitter.com/c0f9UaabYA

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) May 26, 2023

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

We scored 0 points in the 4th quarter on offense except for a game winning fg drive built off a 29-yard punt return and a stupid 15 yard penalty. We beat the Bengals because we flat out dominated them on defense which I don't think we can rely on vs a healthy OL. Just as we were really bad on 4th quarter offense vs buffalo. And the Rams, the broncos, the Texans, and even if more excusable the Seahawks and the regular season jags game. Our second half offense was not sharp the second half of the season and would argue a lot of that was masked by playing some truly atrocious offenses, including the gimpy playoff Bengals.

The offense stalled in the 4th quarter because Mahomes was on one-leg and the WR room was so depleted Jody Forston and Noah Gray and Markus Kemp were running WR routes.

This isn't Madden. You're not going to unmercilessly steamroll every single team you play, especially when you've built a big lead.

For as much as the Bengals O has a potentially better OL (And really, that's dependent on Orlando Brown being a major upgrade from Jonah Williams, which he is NOT as a pass blocker) and Williams being healthy and better at RT than La'el Collins (no guarantee there, either), the Chiefs have clearly improved on D. Omenihu>Clark. Karlaftis year 2 > Year 1; Drue Tranquill > Gay in nickel and > Bolton in dime. The CBs should only improve with second years for the rookies who performed so well last season, and S is a wash (with upside to be better, even).

I'm telling you, the Chiefs upgrades on D are more significant than many are giving them credit. Tranquill is going to make a BIG impact defending the middle of the field vs. the pass.

Originally Posted by Megatron96

CIN is 3-1 vs. KC. I wouldn’t say we should feel all that comfortable about playing them just yet.

The two teams have played 4 times over the past two seasons, with every contest decided by a single FG. 3-1 could just as easily be 2-2, 1-3, 0-4

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

At the very least the Bengals are a very different team on offense with a healthy OL. They aren't easy to stop. Which means our offense has a much smaller margin of error and the Bengals have been more successful than others at frustrating us. There is no team I hate more so the opposite... I want to destroy them so they go home crying to their mommies.

But to your point what's to stop defenses from copying? We saw variations of defense that were more successful than others. Weve stalled against real good zone defenses like Gus Bradley or even lovie smith. We did not have very good success against the mcvay tree (rams, chargers, broncos) and yes I'm aware we won each of those games. Or the titans/patriots approach of knocking the shit out of Kelce. Which is why I keep coming back to kelce and how we need to give the dude some help.

From copying what the Bengals did? I don't think it is easily copied, for one thing. Some of their defensive success is based on the adjustments and changes he makes.

He also has DEs who are willing to be very disciplined, and that's a tougher sell that you'd realize.

The Chiefs have consistently diced up Gus Bradley and cover 3/cover 1. That's not a thing. They solved their zone issues in 2022 and did so without sacrificing success against man looks.

And they have worked to provide Kelce help. There are question marks around it, but try to look at the big picture.

Losses
Juju Smith-Schuster - Provided consistency across the middle against zone coverage.
Mecole Hardman - missed a big part of the year, but his speed and ability as a gadget player were impactful, especially in the red zone.

Replacements
Richie James - He can do the things Smith-Schuster did. He's a little smaller but also faster and shiftier, with a little more juice against man
Kadarius Toney - health is an issue for him, but health was an issue for Hardman in 2022.
Skyy Moore - year 2, it's reasonable to expect the flashes he showed to be more consistent, especially with more snaps, a full year and offseason program into things.
Rashee Rice - he's a rookie, so it is hard to have huge expectations. But he does give the team an answer if the defense is playing a lot of man coverage and single high, because of his ability in contested catch situations and after the catch.
Justyn Ross - a lottery ticket. But still a skillset that could be something.
John Ross - another lottery ticket. But still a skillset that could be utilized, potentially.

My point
The Chiefs aren't relying on one big-ticket to ease reliance on Kelce. They're throwing numbers at it and seeing what sticks. But they have made a variety of moves to try to help the receiving group around Travis Kelce. Even the investments at the TE spot are aimed at that.

If the Chiefs can get something done at a reasonable rate that works for them with DeAndre Hopkins, great. But let's stop acting like the sky is falling if they don't. They have lots of other options (and we haven't even talked about improving the pass protection for Mahomes yet...)

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Dunerdr

How many DL can you possibly invest in?

Not enough unless Von Miller can come back quickly from a late season ACL tear at 34.

[smithandrew051]

Might just be me, but I woke up liking the Chiefs today

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

If we get to 2000, he signs for vet minimum, right?

[Dunerdr]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Not enough unless Von Miller can come back quickly from a late season ACL tear at 34.

Seems unlikely. I hope he never comes back lol. All the draft picks and money and nothing really to show for it.

[Coogs]

Damn! I was thinking we were something like 14-3 in the regular season and won the Super Bowl last year? Reading these last few pages, I'm not so sure. Apparently we sucked.

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by Red Dawg

Yeah, we were number 1 in everything so clearly we should go all in on Hopkins.

Chiefs improved their offensive efficiency by being less predictable and not force feeding Tyreek 160 targets.

Why anyone thinks we should take a step back from that approach is beyond my comprehension.

[LoneWolf]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

Might just be me, but I woke up liking the Chiefs today

It is just you because the rest of us woke up loving the Chiefs today. Get it together, man.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

The offense stalled in the 4th quarter because Mahomes was on one-leg and the WR room was so depleted Jody Forston and Noah Gray and Markus Kemp were running WR routes.

This isn't Madden. You're not going to unmercilessly steamroll every single team you play, especially when you've built a big lead.

For as much as the Bengals O has a potentially better OL (And really, that's dependent on Orlando Brown being a major upgrade from Jonah Williams, which he is NOT as a pass blocker) and Williams being healthy and better at RT than La'el Collins (no guarantee there, either), the Chiefs have clearly improved on D. Omenihu>Clark. Karlaftis year 2 > Year 1; Drue Tranquill > Gay in nickel and > Bolton in dime. The CBs should only improve with second years for the rookies who performed so well last season, and S is a wash (with upside to be better, even).

I'm telling you, the Chiefs upgrades on D are more significant than many are giving them credit. Tranquill is going to make a BIG impact defending the middle of the field vs. the pass.



The two teams have played 4 times over the past two seasons, with every contest decided by a single FG. 3-1 could just as easily be 2-2, 1-3, 0-4



From copying what the Bengals did? I don't think it is easily copied, for one thing. Some of their defensive success is based on the adjustments and changes he makes.

He also has DEs who are willing to be very disciplined, and that's a tougher sell that you'd realize.

The Chiefs have consistently diced up Gus Bradley and cover 3/cover 1. That's not a thing. They solved their zone issues in 2022 and did so without sacrificing success against man looks.

And they have worked to provide Kelce help. There are question marks around it, but try to look at the big picture.

Losses
Juju Smith-Schuster - Provided consistency across the middle against zone coverage.
Mecole Hardman - missed a big part of the year, but his speed and ability as a gadget player were impactful, especially in the red zone.

Replacements
Richie James - He can do the things Smith-Schuster did. He's a little smaller but also faster and shiftier, with a little more juice against man
Kadarius Toney - health is an issue for him, but health was an issue for Hardman in 2022.
Skyy Moore - year 2, it's reasonable to expect the flashes he showed to be more consistent, especially with more snaps, a full year and offseason program into things.
Rashee Rice - he's a rookie, so it is hard to have huge expectations. But he does give the team an answer if the defense is playing a lot of man coverage and single high, because of his ability in contested catch situations and after the catch.
Justyn Ross - a lottery ticket. But still a skillset that could be something.
John Ross - another lottery ticket. But still a skillset that could be utilized, potentially.

My point
The Chiefs aren't relying on one big-ticket to ease reliance on Kelce. They're throwing numbers at it and seeing what sticks. But they have made a variety of moves to try to help the receiving group around Travis Kelce. Even the investments at the TE spot are aimed at that.

If the Chiefs can get something done at a reasonable rate that works for them with DeAndre Hopkins, great. But let's stop acting like the sky is falling if they don't. They have lots of other options (and we haven't even talked about improving the pass protection for Mahomes yet...)

Never said the sky is falling or that we aren't great because we don't have a WR1. Or that our offense doesn't have some really interesting prospects to work with.

But people keep pointing to the #1 offense last year as if it's beyond reproach. And the big one continues to be how much we rely on Kelce. And what we look like in rare instances (like Tennessee) where a defense can neutralize him somewhat. Until that WR room materializes, that's gotta be a consideration. There were a few teams that used a formula that worked and you gotta believe defenses particularly in the AFC are building their roster/gameplan around that.

And I'm not bringing the Bengals up to say we can't beat them. But the margin of error is slim and I believe we must do that on offense. I believe in our defensive improvements, but I also believe Allen and Burrow (like Mahomes) can pull together games where even great defenses can only do so much. And given how awful their backup OL was in that playoff game, while our defense is better, I don't think that comes close to how much a healthy OL elevates Burrow. Maybe a healthy offense would've solved our 4th quarter offense vs. Cincy. But we also saw really bad 4th quarter offensive performances vs Rams, Denver, Seattle, Houston and most alarming... Buffalo. It's not like it was a one-off. We won on our own merit, but you can't ignore that we also faced a LOT of really really bad offenses the last half of the year (including Cincy, as an anomaly).

So yeah, I believe we need to adapt. Maybe the improvements we made in the WR room get us there. I just think the WR1 is the last missing link. I just don't know how any defense even on their best day can stop us then.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by RedinTexas

You make a good point, but that 3-1 record is an extremely limited sample. It seems to imply that we only have a 25% chance of beating them and I sure as hell don't believe that. The Bengals are a very good team, but they don't worry me any more than any other very good team.

Well that’s one way to look at it.

Or, they beat KC three times in a row then lost the last game.

Or whatever other ways there might be.


However you interpret ’3-1,’ KC is on the losing side of that. For now.


As usual, that stat alone isn’t foremost on my mind. It’s how we got there. And part of the ‘how’ is our offense repeatedly struggled vs their defense.

Doesn’t mean that CIN has the best defense. We also struggled vs. BUF as well last season.

But CIN has consistently prevented KCs offense from scoring to their average for a couple seasons now; and forced stops or turnovers to effectively close out games vs the Chiefs over multiple games and seasons.

Those are facts. There are a lot of reasons for that, many of which I’ve already posted in this thread and others, so I won’t reiterate them here again, but bottom line, CIN is not just any other team, like LAC, who also play well against us.

CIN will be in the playoffs, they’ll be vying for the 1-seed, and a SB berth.

Getting Hopkins isn’t about beAting DEN or LVR; some “good” team.

It’s about beating CIN and BUF, both of whom beat us last season in large part by stalling our offense. And could do so again, but this time maybe knock us out of the playoffs.

Or we could get a force multiplier like Hopkins and outmatch them.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It isn't about a fifth gear. Our 4th quarter offense vs Cincy, rams, Denver, Seattle, buffalo, indy and Houston were flat out terrible. Not just bad, terrible.

Just in case you've been in a coma for the last 4 years - and it appears that you have - the Kansas City Chiefs team that you do absolutely nothing but bitch about has played in 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls and won 2 of them.

I would've thought no Chiefs' fan could possibly be so miserable during this amazing run - and I would've been dead wrong.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks

Just in case you've been in a coma for the last 4 years - and it appears that you have - the Kansas City Chiefs team that you do absolutely nothing but bitch about has played in 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls and won 2 of them.

I would've thought no Chiefs' fan could possibly be so miserable during this amazing run - and I would've been dead wrong.

What are you talking about? I'm extremely pro chiefs and pro veach. I think our offensive upside is way higher than those who think last year was the best version of ourselves.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Have we moved on from this aging, PED-using, no ring having piece of shit yet?

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

A win is a win

Complete bullshit. You are just trying to make it fit your narrative which it doesn't.

All the games have been a field goal difference.

Each of KC's losses has been because they made boneheaded mistakes that were not of any doing by Cincy's D.

KC lost those games vs Cincy winning them.

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

Have we moved on from this aging, PED-using, no ring having piece of shit yet?

But he "unknowingly" took a SARM during his recovery that one of its main benefits it to improve and speed up healing from injuries.