Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[BigRedChief]

I heard on mlb tv that Hosmer is down to Padres and returning to the Royals as options. Why is that? Why are we not kicking the tires on Hosmer?

[jd1020]

Because Matt Carpenter has at least 2 more years on his contract and he started 110 games at first base last year? You gonna move him back to 3rd? It's been 2 years since he played the majority of his games at 3rd.

The difference between Hosmer and Carpenter isn't that much. Hosmer will strikeout and walk less and hes 4 years younger. Why would you want to spend the money on Hosmer who isn't that great of an upgrade over what you already have? And to say Hosmer would even be an upgrade over Carpenter would be to ignore the inconsistency Hosmer has shown throughout his career.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Because Matt Carpenter has at least 2 more years on his contract and he started 110 games at first base last year? You gonna move him back to 3rd? It's been 2 years since he played the majority of his games at 3rd.

The difference between Hosmer and Carpenter isn't that much. Hosmer will strikeout and walk less and hes 4 years younger. Why would you want to spend the money on Hosmer who isn't that great of an upgrade over what you already have? And to say Hosmer would even be an upgrade over Carpenter would be to ignore the inconsistency Hosmer has shown throughout his career.

He isn't an upgrade which is why it wouldn't make sense to pursue him, unless you are shipping Carpenter or Gyorko somewhere else. Hosmer is way overrated defensively. His metrics are atrocious.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by jd1020

"and"

If the Cardinals want Machado then they will have to give up Reyes +, if you are to believe Rosenthals report of what the White Sox centerpiece is.

So you take Weaver off the table and move on to a combo of Reyes + Flaherty/Hudson + a bat.

Swap Reyes for Weaver+ Flaherty/Hudson + a bat and I'm fine with that. I don't understand the White Sox view, especially since there are rumors already that they will trade him to the Yankees for one of their crown prospects.

[jd1020]

Weaver as the centerpiece doesnt get it done.

Rosenthal said the White Sox offer is centered around the Orioles choice between Giolito or Kopech.

Kopech is the White Sox version of Reyes with better stuff that comes with the added benefit of being 2 years younger, a service clock that hasn't started, and an arm that isn't recovering from TJ.

So if you believe Rosenthal's sources then its Reyes or bust for the Cardinals.

[DJ's left nut]

Reyes will need to be the centerpiece. The problem with including Weaver as well is that the Cardinals don't have a 5-man staff if they give him and Reyes up.

If you can do Reyes and Weaver with Hudson and ask for Gausman in return, you have to strongly consider it. Gausman's one year of control has immediate value for the Cardinals while they groom Flaherty, Hicks and Helsley for '19. The rotation ends up Martinez, Gausman, Wacha, Mikolas and some combination of Wainwright and Flaherty. Next year Flaherty stands in full-time for Gausman and you bank on Helsley or Hicks being able to move in for Wainwright or you use some of the Wainwright money to find another back of the rotation starter. Gomber is also probably going to be able to start at the big league level at some point in the near future; he's a pretty clear '5th starter' type.

That's palatable.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

Let's compare Piscotty and Pham objectively by the numbers.

Piscotty: 323 games, 1156 ABs, 38 HRs, 163 RBIs, .268 BA, .346 OBP, .438 SLG, .784 OPS, 109 OPS+

Pham: 264 games, 758 ABs, 37HRs, 108 RBIs, .281 BA, .380 OBP, .493 SLG,
.873 OPS, 131 OPS+

I don't get the hate. Other than injury the guy has produced. What we are seeing was projected for him earlier, he just ran into a ton of bad luck health wise. Now that is a risk, but his performance shouldn't be a concern, barring a Allen Craig type melt down.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

What is there to hate about Pham?

The issue with him is degenerative eye disease, which is completely out of his control.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

What is there to hate about Pham?

The issue with him is degenerative eye disease, which is completely out of his control.

Not to mention he is dirt cheap and will be for most of the rest of his prime. He is the very definition of low risk, high reward.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Reyes will need to be the centerpiece. The problem with including Weaver as well is that the Cardinals don't have a 5-man staff if they give him and Reyes up.

If you can do Reyes and Weaver with Hudson and ask for Gausman in return, you have to strongly consider it. Gausman's one year of control has immediate value for the Cardinals while they groom Flaherty, Hicks and Helsley for '19. The rotation ends up Martinez, Gausman, Wacha, Mikolas and some combination of Wainwright and Flaherty. Next year Flaherty stands in full-time for Gausman and you bank on Helsley or Hicks being able to move in for Wainwright or you use some of the Wainwright money to find another back of the rotation starter. Gomber is also probably going to be able to start at the big league level at some point in the near future; he's a pretty clear '5th starter' type.

That's palatable.

I want him, but I hope they have some sense of whether he would even consider extending or signing with us. If he is willing to consider best offers, go for it, and it is up to us to pay the man, but if he has a hard on for the west coast or a big market, I'm just not sure its worth it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I heard on mlb tv that Hosmer is down to Padres and returning to the Royals as options. Why is that? Why are we not kicking the tires on Hosmer?

Because he's a bad defender, costs a pick, and his bat barely profiles at first. Top five overrated player in the game.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

What is there to hate about Pham?

The issue with him is degenerative eye disease, which is completely out of his control.

It's not macular degeneration. For most people keratoconus stabilizers in their thirties.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I want him, but I hope they have some sense of whether he would even consider extending or signing with us. If he is willing to consider best offers, go for it, and it is up to us to pay the man, but if he has a hard on for the west coast or a big market, I'm just not sure its worth it.

Of course they will. They're not making that trade without having some dialogue with Lozano as to the odds of getting him extended.

Alternatively, he's just entering his age 25 season - they may be able to get an extension done ahead of time by offering him a 10yr deal with an opt out in 3. That way he's 'committed' to the Cardinals only for 3 years (25-27) and hits the FA market prior to his age 28 season when he'd still be the most sought after guy on the market.

If he doesn't like it, he jets. If he does, he sticks around. Either way, the last 7 years of that deal probably pay him $35-40 million/season to entice him into not opting out.

That seems like the most logical conclusion to an extension discussion. He gets absolute long-term security and the Cardinals get at least 3 seasons with him.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Because he's a bad defender, costs a pick, and his bat barely profiles at first. Top five overrated player in the game.

Oh you gone and done it now...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Oh you gone and done it now...

Mother****ers can bring it.