****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by O.city

They've rebuilt an entire OL in an offseason.....went to the AFC championship game.

Rebuilt an entire secondary....Won a SB

Maybe this is the one that doesn't work out, I dunno. Seems a little shortsighted to not have confidence that it will work out.

The biggest differences in those situations is they didn't just go young. They used a mix.

Yes they added multiple young DBs that room also had Justin Reid going into his 5th year, Juan Thornhill in his 4th and Sneed entering his 3rd. It was young but they had reliable vets to help hold it together.

OL is the same story, while Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith were rookies Joe Thuney was added and the best guard in the league. OBJ like him or not was a 2 year starter that had been successful and Wylie even if you hate him had a lot of starting experience.

It was a mix and they had one stand alone player with a proven history of consistency in Reid and Thuney which is exactly what the WR room doesn't have.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

They know better. Not worth the cost

Trading up for a LT isn't worth the cost, but a RB and a TE are?

What's happenin here.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by O.city

They've rebuilt an entire OL in an offseason.....went to the AFC championship game.

Rebuilt an entire secondary....Won a SB

Maybe this is the one that doesn't work out, I dunno. Seems a little shortsighted to not have confidence that it will work out.

This team goes as the offense goes. We don't run the ball, so overhauling a WR room all at once is a bit different than the OL or DB's.

And again, no one is saying it won't work out - but based on how Andy treats young WR's, it sure doesn't seem likely it will work out THIS year. Rice sure as shit isn't going to improve getting 12 snaps and 2 targets a game.

Hell, Skyy has played like 22 career games - and yesterday was the 2nd time (I believe) he gained more than 50 yards.

Was he a bad pick? Is it the playbook? Can we not develop WR's?

We're in Year 2 and have no idea. Apply the same slowroll development process to Rice and Ross and sorry, but that's concerning.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Mecca

The biggest differences in those situations is they didn't just go young. They used a mix.

Yes they added multiple young DBs that room also had Justin Reid going into his 5th year, Juan Thornhill in his 4th and Sneed entering his 3rd. It was young but they had reliable vets to help hold it together.

OL is the same story, while Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith were rookies Joe Thuney was added and the best guard in the league. OBJ like him or not was a 2 year starter that had been successful and Wylie even if you hate him had a lot of starting experience.

It was a mix and they had one stand alone player with a proven history of consistency in Reid and Thuney which is exactly what the WR room doesn't have.

Yep.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, I ****ing hate it.

I'm not overly fond of it.

But it's hard to argue with the results and ultimately I think Reid DOES leave open the possibility of a guy like Rice forcing his hand.

To this point the younger guys just haven't. I don't think that's because of scheme - I think we've just had guys who are less prepared to make an immediate impact, be that due to tools or experience.

Rice is the most 'pro ready' WR we've added in Reid's time here (with the happy accident of Hill being excluded) and I think he's also the one getting the most early run.

I don't think that's coincidence.

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by O.city

Watson always seems to be open. I dunno. Seems weird.

So weird for a big, fast, smart WR in year 2 of Reid’s system to be open…..

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yuuuuuuuuup.

That 'explanation' from Veach is insulting, IMO.

"Yeah, we think you fans are just going to take it as an article of faith that our system is just that much more complicated than everyone else's..."

McVay has a hell of a deep system in his own right and he has a guy out there executing it. He has a QB that improvises and they've figure it out.

"Andy's complicated scheme" has always been a flimsy excuse to me. I think it's a hell of a lot less complicated than that - it's a trust issue for Reid (and by extension, Mahomes).

If he isn't absolutely certain you'll be in the right place at the right time for 95% of your reps and he has an alternative that he thinks will be, he's going to go with the alterative.

Because not getting open may mean a stalled drive. But just running a stupid route may mean a turnover. Reid seems content with taking some ceiling out of the offense in exchange for raising floor when it comes to turnovers. And he doesn't have the patience it would seem to require to put up with in-season growing pains from younger WRs.

When he doesn't have a choice he trusts more, he seems like he'll play them. Or if he has a rookie like Hill who bring so MUCH more ceiling that it justifies the lower floor. But when it's Moore - who's ceiling isn't higher than anyone else out there and who's floor was clearly lower - he's not gonna force that guy into the lineup. It's early yet to see how he's handling Rice but I do think he's using him a little more aggressively than he used Moore. And Ross is getting about the same level of run as Moore did at this time last year.

It's not scheme - its trust and philosophy, IMO.

Thank you again, DJ for taking my thoughts and making them make sense.

This, EXACTLY.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yuuuuuuuuup.

That 'explanation' from Veach is insulting, IMO.

"Yeah, we think you fans are just going to take it as an article of faith that our system is just that much more complicated than everyone else's..."

McVay has a hell of a deep system in his own right and he has a guy out there executing it. He has a QB that improvises and they've figure it out.

"Andy's complicated scheme" has always been a flimsy excuse to me. I think it's a hell of a lot less complicated than that - it's a trust issue for Reid (and by extension, Mahomes).

If he isn't absolutely certain you'll be in the right place at the right time for 95% of your reps and he has an alternative that he thinks will be, he's going to go with the alterative.

Because not getting open may mean a stalled drive. But just running a stupid route may mean a turnover. Reid seems content with taking some ceiling out of the offense in exchange for raising floor when it comes to turnovers. And he doesn't have the patience it would seem to require to put up with in-season growing pains from younger WRs.

When he doesn't have a choice he trusts more, he seems like he'll play them. Or if he has a rookie like Hill who bring so MUCH more ceiling that it justifies the lower floor. But when it's Moore - who's ceiling isn't higher than anyone else out there and who's floor was clearly lower - he's not gonna force that guy into the lineup. It's early yet to see how he's handling Rice but I do think he's using him a little more aggressively than he used Moore. And Ross is getting about the same level of run as Moore did at this time last year.

It's not scheme - its trust and philosophy, IMO.

Is it possible the difference in trusting young players from Reid to McVay is as simple as the massive age difference they have?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

But then why would he trust rookie OL? They are likely to get the QB hospitalized if they make a mistake.

You can do a lot to cover for a green OL when he's on the field.

And it's largely been interior offensive linemen he's been willing to plug and play as rookies - and they're MUCH simpler to protect.

And hell, it may be as simple as him having better feel for when those guys are ready - he's a fantastic OL guy. I think he has confidence in them quicker/easier because he can see what they're doing like he's Neo in the Matrix.

[DJJasonp]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

The WRs aren’t drastically different than last year. People are shitting on Watson, but he’s been doing a good job catching what’s thrown his way. Maybe he emerges. Moore is getting open a lot.

Seems like the most critic people at this point are those that didn’t like the picks to begin with.

I saw open receivers in the 5-8 yard range yesterday that Mahomes seemed to be ignoring and trying to push the ball further downfield.

Think we need to get back to taking what the Defense gives us.....especially with this receiving corp.

[MahomesMagic]

We have prime Mahomes, Andy Reid at coach, Travis Kelce, and Chris Jones. All HOF players and coaches.

Nothing less than winning a SB should be expected, we are not the Bears trying to reenergize a demoralized fan base.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You can do a lot to cover for a green OL when he's on the field.

And it's largely been interior offensive linemen he's been willing to plug and play as rookies - and they're MUCH simpler to protect.

And hell, it may be as simple as him having better feel for when those guys are ready - he's a fantastic OL guy. I think he has confidence in them quicker/easier because he can see what they're doing like he's Neo in the Matrix.

Yeah I suppose but they put OBJ who only played 1 year at T to protect our franchise. He seems more willing to do that then play rookie wide outs.

It would be a great question for our media to ask him.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

This team goes as the offense goes. We don't run the ball, so overhauling a WR room all at once is a bit different than the OL or DB's.

And again, no one is saying it won't work out - but based on how Andy treats young WR's, it sure doesn't seem likely it will work out THIS year. Rice sure as shit isn't going to improve getting 12 snaps and 2 targets a game.

Hell, Skyy has played like 22 career games - and yesterday was the 2nd time (I believe) he gained more than 50 yards.

Was he a bad pick? Is it the playbook? Can we not develop WR's?

We're in Year 2 and have no idea. Apply the same slowroll development process to Rice and Ross and sorry, but that's concerning.

Overhauling an OL is pretty tough, in a single offseason, but point taken.

It's just been a staple of Andy's career. It isn't like it's just now happening to these draft picks or these players.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Is it possible the difference in trusting young players from Reid to McVay is as simple as the massive age difference they have?

I wouldn't say that's terribly likely, no.

If Reid couldn't relate to young players, he wouldn't have the level of success he has.

I think it's partly just a competition cycle thing. And necessity - Kupp got hurt so Nacua was the next guy up.

I mean this is the same McVay that added OBJ mid-season. That brought in a CLEARLY gassed Allen Robinson last season. Who evidently slow-played the best WR in football for his first 2 seasons.

He's not just throwing the keys to rookies as a matter of course.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DJJasonp

I saw open receivers in the 5-8 yard range yesterday that Mahomes seemed to be ignoring and trying to push the ball further downfield.

Think we need to get back to taking what the Defense gives us.....especially with this receiving corp.

Trust.

Hell, remember the sideline chat from Nagy yesterday? Reminding guys to chill out and stop pressing?

What's the first thing Mahomes does on the next drive?

Forces a deep ball to one of the only two guys he trusts. INT.

If I remember the overhead shot of that play, there were several guys open.