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Chris Meck · 11-21-2018, 03:57 PM

So, I've been thinking about this all season, and especially after watching Monday's game have some thoughts.

Something Reid said a few weeks back has been on my mind-he said that he thought the future of pass rushing was on the inside, as it's a shorter distance to the QB. Teams are getting the ball out quicker and quicker these days to neutralize that outside pass rush. See Aaron Donald.

1. Corners aren't allowed to play physical anymore. So top end speed, discipline and ball skills are really the only things that matter.

2. Outside pass rushers and CB's are generally the highest paid defenders at the current moment.

3. Interior linemen are, with a few exceptions, undervalued.

4. Safeties have become undervalued, as teams refuse to spend the top dollar on them (other than us with Berry) and instead put that money into CB's. We're speaking relatively here.

I think going forward, I would concentrate on defensive linemen as pass rushers first in the draft and free agency. I would tag Ford next year and let Houston walk after '19. I would sink dollars and high picks into the interior 3 move away from overpaying edge rushers.

I would absolutely sign quality veteran safeties, as to me, they're MORE valuable than corners if this is how the NFL wants to play.

I think every corner gets torched anymore and so this position is no longer worth the premium contract. There's not a lot of difference anymore between a mediocre corner and a great one under these rules. But a smart safety that diagnoses the play and is in the right place is golden. More so than before.

just my thoughts.

Chris Meck · 11-23-2018, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Agreed. Having great Interior DL's and Safety's are going to be the keys in the 2019 NFL. Every team will be moving to a high flying offense as soon as possible. They are not going to stop the offenses but they just need to slow then down. We should sign Earl Thomas and spend the 1st and two 2nd's on the DL, safety and ILB.

I agree. Although I might lean more towards a Landon Collins just on the age difference.

Chris Meck · 11-23-2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaa1025

I don't think the offenses have changed much to be honest. There are just more offenses doing what Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees etc led offenses did: Spread teams out and pass more. It's the changing of the guard and scoring will dip as those QB's retire.

2018 is a mere .8 PPG higher than the 2013 season. 2017, scoring was down to the lowest since 2009 at 21.7 PPG, a full point lower at least than the previous 3 seasons.

It's incremental; and while the league overall is only up a little, the elite offenses are taking advantage of the new rules and increased emphasis on any contact downfield. In the postseason, these are the teams you will need to beat, and what you need to try to build a defense to stop.

Chris Meck · 11-23-2018, 02:26 PM

I go ahead and switch to a 4-3 (which is actually almost a 4-2-5)
Let Ford walk, no position in a 4-3, too expensive for a situational player. Let Bailey walk as well.
I sign Geno Atkins with some of Ford's money. Houston-Jones-Atkins-Speaks at DE, hand in the dirt at about 280 lbs

I play: FA coverbacker (several options) -Hitchens- O'Daniel
I sign Landon Collins and play Watts/Lucas in the other slot. if Berry returns we're ****ing great, but I'm not expecting it.
I hope Tremon Smith can take a job from Scandrick or Nelson, opposite Fuller. look for undervalued speed at CB in FA and draft. Just get faster, nothing else matters. Just so guys don't look wide open running down the field.

In rounds 1 and 2a, 2b I take: A DT with some pass rush ability, probably another Safety, and another speed CB. Middle rounds I'm drafting OL. Late rounds athletic projects as they are available for any position.

Just my hypothetical .02

**Easy 6** · 11-23-2018, 04:09 PM

You're not the only one holding out some hope for Tremon Smith

He quickly claimed a starting special teams role, with any luck that bodes well for him

Chargem · 11-23-2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I go ahead and switch to a 4-3 (which is actually almost a 4-2-5)
Let Ford walk, no position in a 4-3, too expensive for a situational player. Let Bailey walk as well.
I sign Geno Atkins with some of Ford's money. Houston-Jones-Atkins-Speaks at DE, hand in the dirt at about 280 lbs

I play: FA coverbacker (several options) -Hitchens- O'Daniel
I sign Landon Collins and play Watts/Lucas in the other slot. if Berry returns we're ****ing great, but I'm not expecting it.
I hope Tremon Smith can take a job from Scandrick or Nelson, opposite Fuller. look for undervalued speed at CB in FA and draft. Just get faster, nothing else matters. Just so guys don't look wide open running down the field.

In rounds 1 and 2a, 2b I take: A DT with some pass rush ability, probably another Safety, and another speed CB. Middle rounds I'm drafting OL. Late rounds athletic projects as they are available for any position.

Just my hypothetical .02

I like a lot of this, but I don't think you draft another safety high if you have collins and Berry on the roster.

I also think Atkins signed an extension with the Bengals, so he's unavailable.

**Rain Man** · 11-23-2018, 04:57 PM

I mentioned this someplace a while back, but my thoughts are that turnovers are getting amplified. A turnover has never in NFL history been more likely to prevent points and more like to produce points.

Since defenders aren't allowed to touch the offense any more, that means that the most valuable player is a ball hawking free safety. He's in the best position to get interceptions without having penalties called on him.

I agree that interior pass rushers are the wave of the future.

As for cornerbacks, I feel like the future is smaller ultra-quick cornerbacks. They can't fight for the ball, so they have the beat the receivers to the ball. This is a risky move, though, given that bigger WRs can be pinpointed over their heads.

kccrow · 11-23-2018, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chargem

I like a lot of this, but I don't think you draft another safety high if you have collins and Berry on the roster.

I also think Atkins signed an extension with the Bengals, so he's unavailable.

You're correct, he signed a 4-year extension before the season.

kccrow · 11-23-2018, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I mentioned this someplace a while back, but my thoughts are that turnovers are getting amplified. A turnover has never in NFL history been more likely to prevent points and more like to produce points.

Since defenders aren't allowed to touch the offense any more, that means that the most valuable player is a ball hawking free safety. He's in the best position to get interceptions without having penalties called on him.

I agree that interior pass rushers are the wave of the future.

As for cornerbacks, I feel like the future is smaller ultra-quick cornerbacks. They can't fight for the ball, so they have the beat the receivers to the ball. This is a risky move, though, given that bigger WRs can be pinpointed over their heads.

Yep. Cut off the quick passing game and force turnovers = Fast Interior Lineman + Coverage LBs + Quick DBs that can mirror routes

chiefzilla1501 · 11-23-2018, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I mentioned this someplace a while back, but my thoughts are that turnovers are getting amplified. A turnover has never in NFL history been more likely to prevent points and more like to produce points.

Since defenders aren't allowed to touch the offense any more, that means that the most valuable player is a ball hawking free safety. He's in the best position to get interceptions without having penalties called on him.

I agree that interior pass rushers are the wave of the future.

As for cornerbacks, I feel like the future is smaller ultra-quick cornerbacks. They can't fight for the ball, so they have the beat the receivers to the ball. This is a risky move, though, given that bigger WRs can be pinpointed over their heads.

I think you can still have big press corners. But we need rangier lbs and safeties need to do their job. I don't love Ragland this year.

The big strength we have now that I don't want to go away is versatility. A lot of our defenders can play multiple positions and techniques. The under scheme does a great job of mixing things up. I'm not convinced our current scheme consistently uses our talent the right way.

Chris Meck · 11-23-2018, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chargem

I like a lot of this, but I don't think you draft another safety high if you have collins and Berry on the roster.

I also think Atkins signed an extension with the Bengals, so he's unavailable.

I'm not seeing that signing anywhere....but if so, bummer. Another like player then...

WhiteWhale · 11-23-2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I'm not seeing that signing anywhere....but if so, bummer. Another like player then...

I googled it and it was pretty easy to find.

Details:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinna...o-atkins-6628/

11-21-2018, 03:57 PM
Chris Meck MVP Chris Meck's Avatar Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC	Building a defense in the modern NFL So, I've been thinking about this all season, and especially after watching Monday's game have some thoughts. Something Reid said a few weeks back has been on my mind-he said that he thought the future of pass rushing was on the inside, as it's a shorter distance to the QB. Teams are getting the ball out quicker and quicker these days to neutralize that outside pass rush. See Aaron Donald. 1. Corners aren't allowed to play physical anymore. So top end speed, discipline and ball skills are really the only things that matter. 2. Outside pass rushers and CB's are generally the highest paid defenders at the current moment. 3. Interior linemen are, with a few exceptions, undervalued. 4. Safeties have become undervalued, as teams refuse to spend the top dollar on them (other than us with Berry) and instead put that money into CB's. We're speaking relatively here. I think going forward, I would concentrate on defensive linemen as pass rushers first in the draft and free agency. I would tag Ford next year and let Houston walk after '19. I would sink dollars and high picks into the interior 3 move away from overpaying edge rushers. I would absolutely sign quality veteran safeties, as to me, they're MORE valuable than corners if this is how the NFL wants to play. I think every corner gets torched anymore and so this position is no longer worth the premium contract. There's not a lot of difference anymore between a mediocre corner and a great one under these rules. But a smart safety that diagnoses the play and is in the right place is golden. More so than before. just my thoughts.
Posts: 18,109

11-23-2018, 02:26 PM	#78
Chris Meck MVP Chris Meck's Avatar Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC	I go ahead and switch to a 4-3 (which is actually almost a 4-2-5) Let Ford walk, no position in a 4-3, too expensive for a situational player. Let Bailey walk as well. I sign Geno Atkins with some of Ford's money. Houston-Jones-Atkins-Speaks at DE, hand in the dirt at about 280 lbs I play: FA coverbacker (several options) -Hitchens- O'Daniel I sign Landon Collins and play Watts/Lucas in the other slot. if Berry returns we're ***ing great, but I'm not expecting it. I hope Tremon Smith can take a job from Scandrick or Nelson, opposite Fuller. look for undervalued speed at CB in FA and draft. Just get faster, nothing else matters. Just so guys don't look wide open running down the field. In rounds 1 and 2a, 2b I take: A DT with some pass rush ability, probably another Safety, and another speed CB. Middle rounds I'm drafting OL. Late rounds athletic projects as they are available for any position. Just my hypothetical .02 Last edited by Chris Meck; 11-23-2018 at 02:58 PM.. Reason: it was too long.*
Posts: 18,109	2 0

11-23-2018, 04:09 PM	#79
Easy 6 pie is never free Easy 6's Avatar Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat	You're not the only one holding out some hope for Tremon Smith He quickly claimed a starting special teams role, with any luck that bodes well for him
Posts: 94,992

11-23-2018, 04:57 PM	#81
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Rain Man's Avatar Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house	I mentioned this someplace a while back, but my thoughts are that turnovers are getting amplified. A turnover has never in NFL history been more likely to prevent points and more like to produce points. Since defenders aren't allowed to touch the offense any more, that means that the most valuable player is a ball hawking free safety. He's in the best position to get interceptions without having penalties called on him. I agree that interior pass rushers are the wave of the future. As for cornerbacks, I feel like the future is smaller ultra-quick cornerbacks. They can't fight for the ball, so they have the beat the receivers to the ball. This is a risky move, though, given that bigger WRs can be pinpointed over their heads.
Posts: 143,188