Building a defense in the modern NFL

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.

I would agree with this except that nobody's in their base defense much anymore. Nickel is more or less everyone's base defense.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I would agree with this except that nobody's in their base defense much anymore. Nickel is more or less everyone's base defense.

Exactly why you run a 4-3. You have defensive linemen that can get pressure from the base defense, nickel or dime.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Exactly why you run a 4-3. You have defensive linemen that can get pressure from the base defense, nickel or dime.

Yeah, I'm just saying we do that a lot already. I mean, they may call Speaks and or Kpass OLB's, but their essentially DE's on a four man line when we're in nickel, which is like 70% of the time.

I think 4-3 or 3-4 is irrelevant in the modern NFL. What does matter is where you put your monetary and draft pick resources. I think it might be smart to put it where other teams DON'T, at least not as a first priority. Especially so since we're likely to be drafting at the bottom of each round for the forseeable future.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Yeah, I'm just saying we do that a lot already.

With the wrong personnel is the point. We're trotting out 300+lb Dlinemen and asking them to rush the passer.

That's not as efficient as a true 43 D-line that can play lighter, smaller and quicker. Along with LB's who are also lighter, smaller and quicker.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

With the wrong personnel is the point. We're trotting out 300+lb Dlinemen and asking them to rush the passer.

That's not as efficient as a true 43 D-line that can play lighter, smaller and quicker. Along with LB's who are also lighter, smaller and quicker.

Fair enough. It's a side discussion really, to what my main point is-which is that for decades, the NFL has placed a premium on pressure from the outside-i.e. edge rushers, OLB'ers, DE's, and shut-down corner play. Both are now handicapped by a)quicker developing passing games and b)no contact by DB's at all or it's a flag. Aaron Donald, for example, doesn't rush against the LT much, he's usually rushing against a guard. He gets inside that guard and eats your QB alive. That's what I'm talking about. I don't want Jones outside rushing out around the tackle-I want him on a guard, inside, on a bee-line to the QB.

So perhaps, like the Royals which found undervalued skills and rode it to a championship, the Chiefs should build a defense designed to collapse the pocket from the inside out and limit big plays downfield with superior safety play. SAFETY in the actual use of the word as well as the term for the position.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Both are now handicapped by a)quicker developing passing games and b)no contact by DB's at all or it's a flag. Aaron Donald, for example, doesn't rush against the LT much, he's usually rushing against a guard. He gets inside that guard and eats your QB alive. That's what I'm talking about. I don't want Jones outside rushing out around the tackle-I want him on a guard, inside, on a bee-line to the QB.

Correct.

Which further supports the argument that the 43 is the optimum scheme for today's NFL.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Exactly why you run a 4-3. You have defensive linemen that can get pressure from the base defense, nickel or dime.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

[Randallflagg]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.

I agree. Absolutely. Unfortunately in this new "era" of Arena League - you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Run a 3-4 and you get very little push up front, giving the opposing QB more time to look downfield.

Run a 4-3 and you get more push up front, but if you miss - you lose.....


Me? I'm a believer in the 4-3. But again - if you don't have a good rushing Down Lineman who can shoot the gap and 2 good edge rushers, well.....it can end fairly badly.

Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas and Dan Saleaumua. Need I say more?

[Chiefaholic]

Originally Posted by Randallflagg

I agree. Absolutely. Unfortunately in this new "era" of Arena League - you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Run a 3-4 and you get very little push up front, giving the opposing QB more time to look downfield.

Run a 4-3 and you get more push up front, but if you miss - you lose.....


Me? I'm a believer in the 4-3. But again - if you don't have a good rushing Down Lineman who can shoot the gap and 2 good edge rushers, well.....it can end fairly badly.

Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas and Dan Saleaumua. Need I say more?

Joe Phillips

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by The Pest

Run a 4-3. You need to be able to pressure consistently with your four down linemen. You'll also need LBs that can cover well and stop the run. Man corners that have speed and ball skills. Rangy safeties that can take away the TE and also play the deep zones.

/thread

The modern NFL defense should be a 43

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

/thread

The modern NFL defense should be a 43

well, I think you're missing the point. What difference is it, really, especially when a team like the Chiefs has 275lbs. OLB'ers? Call them a DE, call them OLB'ers, what difference does it make? More than a DE then, even in a 4-3, I say the DT should be the new point of emphasis. And even they will not look like the old hulking 300+ pounders but more like the Donald prototype. Reid's point was that the interior linemen collapsing the pocket from the INSIDE is faster and more disruptive than pressure from the edge.

My point is I think that Interior linemen and safeties are more important in this new era, with the new rules (or new emphasis on the rules) than the previous conventional wisdom that CB's and edge rushers are the premium defensive positions.

[Bewbies]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

well, I think you're missing the point. What difference is it, really, especially when a team like the Chiefs has 275lbs. OLB'ers? Call them a DE, call them OLB'ers, what difference does it make? More than a DE then, even in a 4-3, I say the DT should be the new point of emphasis. And even they will not look like the old hulking 300+ pounders but more like the Donald prototype. Reid's point was that the interior linemen collapsing the pocket from the INSIDE is faster and more disruptive than pressure from the edge.

My point is I think that Interior linemen and safeties are more important in this new era, with the new rules (or new emphasis on the rules) than the previous conventional wisdom that CB's and edge rushers are the premium defensive positions.

MLB will be super important as well.

Interesting how rules will change defense from outside in to the opposite.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Bewbies

MLB will be super important as well.

Interesting how rules will change defense from outside in to the opposite.

that actually is a much more concise way of saying what I'm trying to say.

Invest much more heavily on interior linemen and safeties (INSIDE) as opposed to conventional wisdom of investing in edge rushers and CB's (OUTSIDE).

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

well, I think you're missing the point. What difference is it, really, especially when a team like the Chiefs has 275lbs.

Those guy are running around in coverage half the time. Dee Ford and Justin Houston aren't rushing the passer 100% of a QB's drop backs.

That's the difference. How many more sacks would those guys have if they weren't running around in coverage?

How much more effective would our D-line be if you slid Houston and Ford at DE, and moved Jones and Bailey into the middle 100% of a QB's drop backs?

How much easier could we cover backs swinging out of the backfield and screens etc if our OLB's flew around like DoD?

THAT'S the difference.