Dee Ford: What next?
 

Posting this here because it feels much more likely to be a viable intelligent conversation right now and not a bunch of ‘**** you **** him!!!’.....

Alright. So what do you guys think we should do/will do with him now?

I think it’s prisoner of the moment thinking to say they should let him go based on the one play last night. But that doesn’t mean that it is or isn’t the right move necessarily. We’ve also got to consider that this front 4 could be even more lethal with a new DC.

The way I see it, it’s either tag or tag & trade. And I guess for me it would come down to where the cap sits and how much I can get back in said potential trade.

Thoughts?...

Keep him unless somebody knows how to replace 15.5 sacks for less money. I sure don't. He's one of the only players who gave the defense a chance.

I think I am okay with whatever they do, there's a few lines of thought here:

1. He's still a bit of a one trick, speed rusher. The Chiefs expect to have and maintain the kind of offense where they will be able to utilize that going forward.

2. Maybe there's an argument that plenty of guys who are better against the run would be a better fit. A lot of guys can pin their ears back and hammer at an O line when the Chiefs have established a two score lead, but a solid all rounder who is better in run defense helps the Chiefs get out to that lead more consistently.

3. Maybe good quarterbacks like Brady will always neutralize a pass rush like Fords, and spending the money on guys who can cover and let average guys actually get home would be a better use of resources.

I think if you could get a 2nd round pick on the tag and trade, that would be my preferred option. Tag, tag and trade, contract, let walk, nothing would really piss me off unless they signed him to a ridiculously big contract.

Food for thought though, my 4-3 mock on here I let him walk and signed Trey Flowers as DE. Ford is a way better pass rusher than Flowers but Flowers contributes way more overall to a team and probably gets paid less.

Yes indeed. You have to look at the bigger picture and not just one play (that didn't cost the game by itself).

If there is going to be a work stoppage in two years, ie a major reworking of the collective bargaining agreement, then the smart move is to make short term agreements to win now, while also making moves to flush some major contracts.

This actually sets cup well for the Chiefs.

To win now the Chiefs keep guys like Houston, Ford and Berry for the near term. Basically we are bringing them both back for 2020 only, much easier to walk away from both after next season. You also tag Ford, again a one year deal is perfect, especially if teams are not going to be handing out multi year deals.

Tagging Ford and keeping Berry and Houston for 2020 not only helps the Chiefs "win now" but I think it also makes the most financial sense.

I think i'm in the Tag or Tag and Trade camp. Not that i'd be pissed about a contract but just think the first two make more sense.

I think you make Ford have another year of good health and 15 sacks and then see where you are with the cap next offseason.

I agree with all of this. I think I'd tag him and trade him. he's too one dimensional. All you have to do is run at him. I've seen him blocked by WR's for ****'s sake. Somebody'll see him as their missing piece and happily pay that and we could use another early-ish pick. For that money I think you can sign a decent 4-3 end that is not as one dimensional and switch to an even line. A 4-3 would help Hitchens at any rate and you've got a lot of money tied up there. It would be nice to try to put him in a situation to succeed.

I think a lot of his sack total being so high this year was the benefit of playing with Jones and Houston anyway. I think he's overvalued.

All defensive personnel questions have to wait until they decide if they're keeping Bob Sutton and other defensive coaches. If you hire a new DC, and have a different scheme, you will get different outcomes.

Dee Ford *might* be able to play LEO in a 4-3, but that's very risky. Houston can probably transition to DE in a 4-3 more easily than Ford to LEO.

I totally agree that one play should not define this decision. He was off sides. It shouldn't happen. But he was still the #2 or 3 defensive playmaker this year.

I'm going to preface this by saying that this defense was at it's best in a 4 man front with Ford and Houston on the edges and Nnadi and Jones on the inside. Ford improved 10-fold against the run this year. He made a lot of plays from the off-play side in the running game this year. He'll always be a guy that is going to get taken to the cleaners head up against the run but he holds up better than he used to.

If this team intends to go to a 4-3 base (which I prefer), then I think a tag and trade is in order. I think you can get a 2nd round pick for him at least and may possibly be able to snag a 1st.

If they stick with a 3-4 base, then I think re-signing him is the best option.

I'm guessing they'll tag him and see what happens in terms of a trade or just keeping him.

I tag and trade him.

For the rest of my life that will be the Dee Ford game. Fair or unfair, I'm not alone there. That's not a stink that will ever wash of for me or a large number of fans.

I know that's not exactly the best reason to make a personnel decision but think of how many times a player has worn the goat horns and then come back to the same team - it ain't often and the results are rarely stellar.

The guy managed to put up exactly NOTHING in 90 some defensive snaps. I truly have no idea how you do that. He contributed one thing to that entire game and it was a braindead, nonsensical penalty that cost us a ballgame.

I just don't know that I could bring him back after that. I know it's not rational but the history in these situations just isn't great.

If you can tag and trade him, yeah, definitely do that.

My god, how ****ing hard is it to not line up in the ****ing neutral zone. Jesus.

It's hard for me to trust Ford at all. Yeah he made a bunch of big plays this season but so did Houston when he had 22 sacks and that ****ing bit us in the ass. I'd look to tag and trade him.

And somehow that's still not the most inexplicable thing.

How do you play that many snaps and not at least stumble into an assist or a pressure? He literally put NO statline. That's seemingly impossible.

I just cannot wrap my mind around how poorly he played in that game and then to have your sole contribution be a completely unforced error that literally changed the franchise's history...ugh.

Yeah, they ran 94 plays. 94 ****ing plays.

You talked about it before, but Bill and Tom just pulled some wizard shit and we ****ed it up.

They did exactly nothing complicated or unexpected.

They came ready to play in the first half and we just flat didn't. The moment was finally too big for them. It happens but I'll be damned if I thought we might avoid it.

Turns out Mahomes was still damn near good enough to pull us out of it but the bottom line is that you can't spot a championship caliber opponent an entire half and hope to win unless you're as battle tested as they are. The Chiefs could MAYBE have held on there if they were 3 years further down the road with some of these young guys but they simply could not do that when they were spotting so much big-game experience as well.

****ing Ford. What a vapor lock.

How in the **** as a defensive linemen are you not checking to see how you're lined up....BEFORE EVERY ****ING PLAY!?

But they ****ing did. I mean they battled back. They held the Pats to 10 second half points and had Brady throw 3 picks.

But Ford couldn't line up.

While you're looking at the ****ing ball to see the snap.

The main reason I’m most down with tag and trade now is I don’t have faith in him to stay healthy again next year. But I’d want an earlier 2nd round pick minimum.

Tag and trade.

Spend the money elsewhere. Add some high value picks. Get a more well-rounded player who makes the defense less predictable.

Ford is a one-trick pony who is a huge liability against the run and is a core problem of the run D weakness.

I was initially down with a 1-year tag. Now even that looks shit ass expensive, though it's certainly possible in the two or so years before Mahomes starts to take up a significant portion of the cap.

Do NOT give him a longterm deal. I'm fine with tagging and signing or tagging and trading. But it's one year only.

I'm tending more towards the tag and trade the more and more I think it through. I don't think you can justify just letting him walk away though. Gotta get a return better than a 3rd next year and that's only IF the Chiefs don't sign another free agent that wipes him out. I'd prefer Preston Smith here. He plays the run really well and generates a ton of pressure on the QB, even if his sacks total doesn't seem to indicate it.

I’d take a 2nd or even early 3rd rd pick.

This draft is filled with a lot of quality and quantity of defensive players. Stock these guys up now.

tag and trade. He's so one dimensional as to be a liability in anything other than rushing the passer. You need to have more versatility than that I think in this NFL.

Yeah....we totally need to pay this guy.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Dee Ford was in a state of utter confusion after his costly offsides penalty<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLPlayoffs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLPlayoffs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a><br> <a href="https://t.co/M0gdSmjrIh">pic.twitter.com/M0gdSmjrIh</a></p>&mdash; MWSN Radio (@MWSNradio) <a href="https://twitter.com/MWSNradio/status/1088122042182975489?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tag and trade he's a one dimensional player with a bad back -read where the Browns and Jets where interested.

well, this is all moot now. 4-3 has no position for Ford. Tag and trade.

Yep Ford has no place in a 4-3 still should get a draft pick though hopefully a second

How does the Tag and Trade thing work? Do they negotiate a contract first?

If he signs the tag, he can be traded on the one year deal. Obviously the receiving team probably won't complete a deal for a pick unless a LTC is agreed, unless they only want him for a year for some reason?

I'd do that and sign Brandon Graham.

Graham is meh and 30. No thanks.

First you injure someone's hall of fame quarterback. Then their worthless backup comes in and makes himself look semi-credible by lobbing jump-balls to the most freakishly talented WR to ever play the game. Then you hire a fat shithead to run your personnel department who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground but who happened to play some marginal role in originally 'discovering' said worthless backup.

After that happens, the fat shitheads former puppetmaster slaps the franchise tag on the worthless backup because he knows the fat shithead doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and will give up an actual asset to re-acquire his 'discovery'. After putting the tag on the backup, the puppetmaster fiendishly cackles and drums his fingers together like Monty Burns.

So then fat shithead calls his former puppet-master and offers to give him a second round pick for the worthless backup (who is under team control because of the franchise tag and the fact that he signed that ****ing tender before anyone had a chance to change their mind). The puppetmaster laaaaaaughs and laaaaughs and laaaughs and then sends a suitcase nuke to Arrowhead.

I ****ing hate you so much, Scott Pioli.

Colorful.

But would someone have to work out a deal with Ford first or does that matter?

Generally they're going to have a deal in place before they agree to trade picks. No one is trading a high pick for a player on a 1 year deal.

Who would trade for him?

The Packers be interested you guys think? The Browns maybe but they've got pass rushers.

Falcons?

Jets maybe.

Um....both?

From a purely mechanical perspective, the deal is reached AFTER the trade. There are not true 'sign and trade' deals in the NFL due to accelerated signing bonuses and things like that.

The trade for Cassel was NOT contingent on an extension - the Chiefs really did give up a 2nd round pick for one !@#$ing season of that goddamn inbred one who sucks the penis. And somehow they'd have been better off by just ending it there but after that they also reached an agreement with him completely independent of any additional compensation to the Patriots.

However, nobody in the world thinks that the Raiders hadn't given the Bears permission to deal directly with Mack's representation once the draft compensation was worked out. There was no way the Bears were giving up that much for a single season of Mack on the tag.

So the answer is - it depends. Yes, I absolutely believe the Chiefs could get a 3rd round pick for a single season of Ford with the acquiring team being of the belief that they can either tag him again or reach an agreement later. However, the Chiefs would almost certainly prefer push an arrangement for a 2nd or higher where they would give the acquiring team a chance to go ahead and speak Fords people regarding an extension and have one hammered out that effectively goes into effect concurrently with the trade itself. Hell, the tag isn't even the only path to this - that's effectively what happened in the Alex Smith trade as well.

The Chiefs can absolutely fetch more than just a 3rd round pick. Proven edge rushers have a lot of value.

Smith was still under contract though, so we'd have to tag him first to have his rights I think.

I was assuming it would be essentially done contractually before the trade was agreed to but kind of a hush hush thing.

I would think so. I just don't know who would want to give up a high pick and a big contract.

Looking around the league, maybe the Bucs could be a nice landing spot with them switching to Bowles D.

If I remember correctly though, the player can't be traded until he signs the tag? I remember some talk around Bell this last year being unable to be traded by the Steelers because he refused to sign the tag.

If they can’t get someone to puke up value for the Sack numbers he put up I will be disappointed.

Buccaneers would absolutely be a great fit. You're not getting their first round, but I don't see why you can't land a 2nd and a 2020 pick.

The Buccaneers have basically 0 pieces up front to run a 3-4 and they are going to need some proven guys to come in and produce. Bruce Arians is an old pile of shit that can't wait years for it all to come together. They need shit today.

Or maybe you could swing a Dee Ford for JPP + pick.

Yeah, JPP wouldn't be a bad idea. Thumbs up. Or whatever he has left.

Or maybe one of their ILBs.

Thanks for the reminder of how intergalactically stupid this franchise is.

You could have thrown in that you first need to trade a 4th round pick for the stupidest human in the league to in remarkably short order dismantle a historic offense, and somehow not improve the historically bad defense all while starting a “youth movement” in which the previous won now coach had more players play 3 years than the youth movement had, which leads to hiring a fat shithead.

You know. To get the full scope of ineptitude.

Looking at that front 7, yikes.

Beau Allen - Vita Vea - RNR?

Uh? - idk - wtflol - Vinny Curry

None of their LB's are really going to translate over well and their #1 edge guy currently is just ok.

They're going to need some DL, 2 inside backers (we can give them ****ing Ragland too) and some edgerushers.

Yeah, that front looks atrocious in a 34. Damn.

I'd take Vinny Curry or Beau Allen here. Shit, i'd trade them Ford for Vita Vea

Well...yeah. The team has to have the rights one way or the other. Smith was another year on his long-term contract. With Ford he'd have to sign the franchise tender.

Fords already said he'd gladly play under the tender so I don't imagine that will be an issue of any sort. And if he wants to go try to play hardball after that !@#$ing vapor lock, good luck, champ.

Can we trade Dee Ford for Lavonte David?

I had thought about that but I don’t know if they could do it contractually

His cap hits look like this:

2019: $9.75 million
2020: $10.5 million


There are no dead cap hits for the Bucs.

His 15.5 sacks came with a cost to this defense because he couldn't do anything else, like set the edge or stuff the run and we saw where that got us in the ACCG game huh?

For those who like to do the mocks—someone should make one where we sign Landon Collins. Seems logical if Spags is here.

The Giants aren't letting Collins walk.

You never let a good pass rusher go. Ever. They're too hard to find.

My gut emphatically says... well, bye!

My brain says if our new DC envisions some outstanding role he can play, then lets give it a brief shot and tag him

What if they’re one-dimensional players
Who are complete liabilities in all other facets of the game, while also being really really dumb?

Ford should only be seeing the field in known passing situations. Beyond that, he's a net negative in every other aspect of the game.

He's given the Chiefs 30.5 sacks in five years. You're going to be paying him like he's a 13 sack guy, but is he really? You don't pay for the aberration year, you pay for what the player is likely to give you.

For example: Aaron Donald had a career year this year, getting more sacks than he had in 2016 and 17 combined. Do you think he's going to continue to put up 20 sacks per year, or is he closer to a 12-14 sack guy?

Ford may give you 8-10 sacks a year on average (if healthy), but if that is coupled with horrific run defense, why pay him 15-18 million per year? Wouldn't a guy that gives you 6-8 sacks per year and plays competent run defense be a much better alternative and a hell of a lot cheaper?

Yes, yes, a million times, yes.

Yeah, I'm just kind of tired of paying guys after contract years and getting bent over.

Let someone else pay him. Tag him and take a 3rd if you have too. If someone gives you a 2nd, take it and trade it for a ****ing corner.

[Teope] Asked Chiefs OLB Dee Ford on what he hopes will be done in free agency: “That’s THE option,” Ford said of re-signing with the Chiefs. “I love the community and I’m just used to that environment. So, I’ll be blessed to be able to stay. We’ll cross that bridge when we get there.”

Bye Ford. Go get your big contract from another team.

FWIW Matt Miller did a long mock draft (2 rd) on his podcast and mentioned that the Chiefs will be looking for a corner or pass rusher. Mentioned a few names like Byron Murphy (trade up) and Jaylon Ferguson for first rd options.

He mentioned that pass rusher was a strong bet bc Dee Ford has one good year and Houston is an expensive 30 year old player with signs of declining soon.

This guy talks to Veach, which is why I like him. There’s clues that he floats ever Spring.

Saw the idea of trading Ford + pick 29 to Green Bay for pick 12 + pick 75. A lot of people seemed to dislike it I guess because they want to keep Ford at all costs, but that’d be a hard trade to pass on IMO.

That wouldn’t be a bad idea. I’d rather trade him to the bucs. Ford and 29 for their first rounder and a third?

TB picks 5th so it would probably require another pick from the Chiefs in that scenario.

I am fully confident speaks can come in and underwelm just fine

Ford, one of our seconds and our first for their first and one of their defensive front 7 players that doesn’t fit the 34

Well the big + about letting Ford go is the cap relief, so I’m not sure they’ll want anything more than draft picks for him.

But with a pick near the top 10, you’re potentially getting a better player than Ford at some position for 1/4 of the cost.

True but they’re also going to want ready made players for next year in the defense

Nate Taylor seems to think we'll keep Ford and release Houston.

I could see that

Mellinger thinks they’ll try and restructure with Houston

We’ll see. Either way, it’s not ideal to have all this in this offseason. They’re now in their 2 year window where they’ve gotta push but they can’t because of some of these contracts

I’d say you’ve gotta make some tough decisions or frankly, they need to get lucky

If Houston won’t take a pay cut I’d get rid of him. Not worth the $21M cap hit.

He benefits a lot from having Ford and Jones there, I’m telling ya.

Boy you pretty quickly turn on guys once it’s a chance they aren’t a chief anymore

Probably floating it that we might cut him so he'll be more likely to restructure, I guess. Either way, 21 million for him just isn't feasible.

Yeah, they’ll restructure or cut him but he’s still a really good player that will get a nice deal on the market if he hits it

The chiefs ****ed it up with drafting like ass **** and not having anybody ready to replace him or Ford

Go back and look at a couple threads about Ford from a couple weeks ago, I’ve been saying that for awhile. Houston wasn’t really ever getting double teamed late in the year. It was Ford.