Ranking Chiefs GMs, coaches, best-worst players 89-19
 

Pull up a chair and feel free to immerse yourself in all the highs and lows of the past 30 years of Chiefs history.

https://gasnsports.com/ranking-89-19...92Mr703Llpbd9E

Veach should be number 1 in my book. I get that he took over a good situation, but look at our record in the playoffs since he took over. Look at the improvement in the defense in 1 offseason of cap hell.

No way in hell is Marty 1B. Reid has created separation there. Reid and Stram are the greatest coaches in franchise history...by a lot.

Kelce should be higher than 8. I’d have him ahead of Priest and Charles. Montana at 3 seems high too.

Lists like these really drive home how important the quarterback position is. If you're a GM or a coach, your legacy will be driven by your quarterback, and guess what? Your quarterback will be a result of your philosophy toward quarterbacks.

If you unwaveringly hitch your wagon to a guy who's not good (Pioli with Cassel), you'll be reviled. If you never take a chance to get a great quarterback, you'll never succeed (Peterson with retreads). And if you find and draft the greatest quarterback we've ever seen, you'll never buy a beer in this town again (Veach).

Veach is #1. But Carl had the tougher job.

The Chiefs were a wasteland for nearly two decades before he came in.

Dorsey is #2. Carl would've cut his own dick off before trading up 15 spots to draft Mahomes.

Not only that, but he wouldn't have drafted Mahomes at all, even if he was on the board at 27. Not that it would've mattered if he did, because Vermeil was the only coach during his time in KC that knew how to use a QB properly.

It's fair to point out that Peterson just operated in a different time.

We use the rearview mirror to deify a LOT of mediocrity in the 90s. The Cowboys didn't win because Troy Aikman was a great quarterback. Troy Aikman is considered a great quarterback BECAUSE the Cowboys won.

Jim Kelly's the same way. Watch videos of the guy and he wasn't amazing - he was a glorified game manager. Mark Rypien is another.

There are LEGITIMATE arguments for somehow placing Bobby Hebert among the 10 best quarterbacks of the 90s, likewise with Randall Cunningham. I'd have taken Trent Green over Hebert, Cunningham, Rypien and probably Kelly. I'm not sure he was notably worse than Aikman, he just didn't have the defense the Cowboys had those years. And while Elvis Grbac was by no means a real success here, he was also not clearly worse than someone like Jimmy Grapes - he just didn't have the surrounding cast Garappolo had.

Steve Bono was the only egregiously stupid decision he made at quarterback when you consider the majority if the era he operated in. By the end of his run, the worm had started to turn but through most of his Chiefs career, he made decisions that were reasonable when they were made. And even then, can you imagine a scenario in the modern draft when "These two quarterbacks are vying for 1.1!" yields the loser a slide all the way down to 24?

In 2020 the 4th best quarterback in the draft was taken at 26 to replace a guy many thought was the single best player in the draft when he was taken at 24 in 2005. Tua will never be taken at 24 again. I don't imagine there will be many years where Herbert slides out of the top 20 going forward and he was never truly in the mix for a top 5 selection. Rodgers was a legit possibility at 1.1 and went into free-fall when a single team passed on him.

Even at the end of Carl's run, an elite quaterback was considered a luxury, especially when the prototype of an elite quarterback over the previous 25 years or so never won a championship.

Carl operated in an era when you could create the myth of greatness for a quarterback by surrounding him with talent. Marty is in a similar boat. What they did at the time wasn't absurd or unheard of - in fact it was largely conventional wisdom.

You bastard.

Grbitch was and is a wart on the face of humanity. He should feel blessed for never being tossed into a acidic rape fire by Chiefs fans.

Bono decision in 1995 was one where Montana kind of put them in a pickle. Montana didn't officially retire until April of that year. Kind of hard to go out in free agency or trade for a QB if you don't really officially know what Montana was going to do. Then kind of hard to replace a QB that just went 13-3 unfortunately. Takes a lot of stones to do that and most personal types won't do that do.

Fair, but I also remember Montana being something of a Roaf situation (and Shields for a bit) where he didn't officially retire until fairly late in the game but the feeling around the organization and the city was that it was all but inevitable.

Dude was 38 years old and was clearly in sharp decline. He'd had significant injuries in like 4-5 straight years. You simply cannot feign shock when he retires. They had to have a backup plan in place and just...didn't. How do you NOT have a guy like Chris Chandler on hand? Or draft a Todd Collins or Rob Johnson since you know that Montana's gone in a year tops? Those were successful major college QBs who could've been had in the 2nd and 4th rounds.

I mean....I guess I can give them the benefit of the doubt and say that was their plan with Steve Stenstrom but...Yikes.

Ultimately I don't fault him for most of what went on at QB for those years. But man, the Bono thing was just so !@#$ing awful and with even moderately credible QB play, they could've nabbed a ring in there. Any team that goes 13-3 w/ Bono under center could've won a SB with Chris Chandler. And I guess it's also fair to point out that we had Gannon, but that was on Marty. I think that was HIS major misstep. And not because he didn't play him, but because he simply didn't know how to use him. Gannon wasn't actually all that great here, but that was because Marty couldn't figure out what to do with him.

LMAO

How many future HOFer's did Dorsey draft in his 5 drafts in KC? Maybe one, in Travis Kelce, who was really an Andy pick because he was familiar with him and his family.

Dorsey sucked ass in KC and he's not even a pimple on Peterson's ass.

And let's not forget that Peterson didn't **** up, like so many other GM's and teams have done when picking Top 5 in the NFL Draft.

He took Derrick Thomas with #4 overall instead of Broderick Thomas, who was also seen as a pass rushing monster (he had a nice career but obviously not a Hall of Fame career).

1993 was a phenomenal year for Peterson. He chose Will Shields, a future Hall of Famer, in the 3rd round of the draft, then gave up very little in acquiring Joe Montana and Marcus Allen. Sure, they fell short in the AFC Championship Game that year but what team could overcome losing their HOF QB in the first half of that game?

Carl's first 16 years were very successful but unfortunately, most people remember his final years from 2006-2008. Had Vermeil not insisted on Trent Green, I fully believe that Carl would have drafted Drew Brees with the 12th overall pick in 2001 but he trusted Vermeil way too much, IMO.

The fact that people still refuse to give Dorsey any credit for pulling a rabbit out of the hat, misleading EVERYONE and executing a damn good trade to get immediately ahead of 2 teams that badly wanted Mahomes remains bizarre as hell.

He made the obvious right choice in 2013 w/ Fisher. Is it his fault that draft was tragically awful? No, no it is not.

Ford, LDT and Fulton were very good picks in '14. We'll always have a bad taste in our mouths over how Ford's tenure ended, but FFS, look at what most of the teams around us did. Relative to his peers, the Ford pick was excellent.

Peters, Morse, Conley and Nelson is a very good first 4 picks of '15 and I'd imagine few did better.

'16 yielded Chris Jones, Demarcus Robinson and Tyreek Hill. But hey, that's only 2 guys that are considered top 5 in the sport at their positions - who cares?

'17 he executed the trade for Mahomes.

Seriously - what in the actual **** are you talking about? I won't try to debate Dorsey vs. Carl because I think they both did outstanding jobs and won't loudly argue w/ ranking either ahead of the other. But saying "Dorsey sucked ass in KC" is just facially ridiculous. He was, at worst, good over his period in Kansas City. In his 5 years he drafted, what, 9 Pro Bowlers? And acknowledge it or not (you won't) he was instrumental in the acquisition of Kelce, Hill, Jones and yes, Mahomes - all of whom could easily end up with legitimate HoF cases by the time their careers are over.

Carl Peterson was the GM for 20 drafts - Dorsey for 5. And you're honestly going to try to use a count of HoFers as your barometer? Especially when there's a solid possibility that Dorsey comes out ahead in 5 years of where Peterson was over 20.

Where is Hank Stram?
Where is Jack Steadman?
Peterson kept us in mediocrity by not EVER drafting a QB high enough to make a difference.

Well since he only had 2 and the other was Glenn Dorsey, he was 50/50 at best and then you consider he didn't draft up there because he would not take chances and was happy with mediocrity combine that with all the other misses in his tenure, he sucked but he was still better than Pissoli, Rossi and Schaaf. Dorsey will always have a special place because of Mahomes.

Veach #1? Why? Because he came into a great situation that allowed him to overpay for a few players and win a SB?

He's been good so far but one year as a GM doesn't make someone #1.. That's crazy.

I don't think that Dorsey made the most important picks that moved this franchise forward.

Fisher? You have to be kidding me. That's a Reid selection all day long, same with Kelce. It's been documented time and time again that Chris Ballard did all of the legwork on Marcus Peters.

Fulton and LDT are definitely Reid selections. His mother attended the same college as LDT in Canada! So basically ANY offensive lineman is an Andy selection, period, and there's no way you're going to convince me otherwise.

The Buffalo trade was NOT executed by Dorsey. For ****'s Sake Dude, McDermott and the rest of the Bills coaching staff and front office are basically Reid's children! He brought them up, trained them and in McDermott's case, fired them, too. There's no way that trade goes down like it does without Andy Reid's relationship with those guys.

The comparison was an apt comparison. Peterson's first five years drafting versus Dorsey's first five years of drafting.

In hindsight, Dorsey should never have been the hire. He and Reid obviously clashed on personnel, something that hasn't happened since Brett Veach has become the GM.

And Dorsey didn't help his reputation in Cleveland, either. Maybe he hit on Nick Chubb and the jury's still out on Mayfield (although those deliberations are certainly siding against him at this point) but I just don't believe he brought anything "special" to the table.

Without Reid, Dorsey would have never become an NFL GM.

I get what you are saying Dane but if someone is the GM they have final say on all picks. Dorsey could have vetoed any of Reids 'picks,' you are crazy to think Dorsey didn't have final say on everything including the Mahomes trade and pick.

Veach was a part of Dorseys team. Dorsey was the leader. Any good GM needs good scouts.

That is not necessarily true. Each year, NFL teams search for new GM's and nearly every year, guys refuse to take jobs because the Head Coach has final say over the roster, not the GM.

I don't believe for a second that Dorsey had "Final Say" over anything, especially offensive lineman or Kelce or Mahomes or even Hunt for that matter.

LMAO

There's not a ****ing chance in the world that Reid wouldn't have chosen Mahomes had Dorsey wanted to go elsewhere with the pick.

Are you serious or just seriously stupid? That man was not, in any way shape or form, passing on Mahomes because Dorsey didn't like him.

That's insanely ludicrous.

So, let us all know what happened in Cleveland, since you're a fan of that team, too.

Also, if Dorsey was SO great (he wasn't) and if he had SO much to do with the drafting of Mahomes (he absolutely did not), why doesn't Andy Reid ever give him any credit whatsoever when it comes to Mahomes?

He constantly credits Brett Veach as well as Alex Smith. Hell, he credited Smith in his recent interview with Rich Eisen this week!

And if Dorsey was so vital and great, why did Clark Hunt unceremoniously fire him, especially if he was so integral to the Mahomes trade with Buffalo?

I know why: Because he wasn't integral to the trade, he made several **** ups and Clark Hunt felt the team would be better off with Veach and Reid running the show.

And Clark Hunt was right.

Believe whatever you want. Maybe if you would take Reids dick out of your mouth you would see things for how they truly are.

If i remember right, when Reid and Dorsey were hired, Clark set it up where they both reported directly to him and neither one was more powerful than the other.

Clark didnt want another all powerful football Czar position like Pioli had.

And you can just go **** yourself while jacking off to pictures of Alex Smith, you pathetic piece of shit

I can't believe that anyone thinks that Andy Reid didn't have a massive amount of input, let alone, final say over the draft and roster.

Lol. Relax just ****ing w you.

Go **** yourself

(Glances at shiny new Lombardi trophy.)

I vote for Veach as #1.

Pretty sure we had another GM when Chiefs won their first SB. You guys just don't remember him

Football was a lot different 50 years ago when Jack Steadman was running things... Lot less complicated...

And being a GM for one season when you have Mahomes, Reid, Kelce, Jones, Tyreek and others falling into your lap is a little different than the situations Carl Peterson and other Game found themselves in.

Yeah, but the rules say that we're only talking about the 1989-2019 era.

I'm not really sure what the GM did in those days, though. I've read stories about guys in that era (with no agents at the time) going in and negotiating with the coach. I'm not sure when that responsibility shifted in the league from coaches to GMs.

There's no doubt that he inherited a good team. But I would counter that Carl Peterson had 20 seasons to make over his roster, and he never won a Super Bowl. If you offered a good GM a 20 year window starting with a bad team, or a two year window starting with a good team, I'd think the 20 year window would have a better Super Bowl shot. Even if it takes five years to re-create the roster, you've then got 15 shots.

They were talking the last 30 yrs. Not all of Chiefs history.

What did Veach do as a GM that is so impressive? And don't say drafting Mahomes because he didn't do that as a GM.

I think most of you are picking Veach because of the emotions of winning a SB. But if you look at it objectively he didnt build this SB winning team, he mostly inherited it. For me he's got to do more before I'm convinced he is as good as some of you think he is.

I hope he turns out to be amazing but I'm not convinced he's better then CP or Dorsey just yet.

I would argue that the 2019 offseason was the best offseason I’ve seen since I started watching the Chiefs.

I'd contend that the changes he made put us over the hump, and it was a big hump. Adding Frank and Tyrann and Mecole and Fenton and those other guys apparently took us from playoff contender to Super Bowl champions. That pretty much is the game-winning shot in my opinion.

I don’t think there is any accomplishment by any Chiefs GM on the list as impressive as what Veach did with the defense in one offseason.

The 2018 defense was horrid. Horrid enough to prevent an all time elite offense from making the Super Bowl.

He nailed practically every move last offseason on the defense. And he made a shit load of moves. It was incredible.

Look at the list of key contributors that he brought in over the last two seasons:

Ward
Fenton
Mathieu
Clark
Wilson
Nnadi
Saunders
Suggs
Okafor
Ogbah
Breeland
Pennel
Watts
O’Daniel
Hardman
Wylie
Reiter
Williams
Watkins
Wisneiwski
Rankin

I’m sure I’m forgetting a few too

To also be fair to Carl, he did have a major woody for a college QB at that time who didn't fit in the era but would certainly have now. Would have been trend setting. Carl loved him some Charlie Ward. But Ward had legit NBA backup plans and wanted guarantied first round draft pick status. Tough pickle to be in for Carl.

I agree with the article... Veach can surpass him soon, but as for now he's #2

They don't clash because he got his "yes man" in Veach. Reid still calls the shots on 'all' personnel and has trained Veach to have his scouting eyes IMHO.

Taking an RB in 1st round is a Reid pick if there ever was one.

IF there ever was an exception for violating this rule it would be for the "The Fresh Prince of Hellaire". He is the perfect back for this offense and adds more options for play calling than Williams or any of our other backs for sure. But I totally agree with you 100%.

No doubt. I hope it works out for us.

Fresh Prince of Hellaire! 🤣 haha love it! I am so excited to see how much more dynamic he can make our offense that didn't have a consistent run game last season!

How? In what way?

The Mahomes selection was such a big deal even before he became a superstar. It was a team that brought him to us.

Veach did the advanced scouting.
Reid did the offseason interviews and approved it as team QB guru.
Dorsey executed the trade.

I think some posters have a stupid obsession with Dorsey, but that doesn’t mean he deserves no credit for pulling off that brilliant trade. He found the right spot, the right team, negotiated a cheap price, and kept it all quiet. The slightest suspicion of our interest from any of 4 or 5 teams could have derailed it.

Dorsey absolutely deserves credit for that trade