We gotta talk about this UDFA class.
 

The amount of skill and potential from this UDFA class the Chiefs secures is as good as any I’ve ever seen for any team. It’s possible we land three starters from this group, and end up with up to seven guys that contribute regularly over the next three years.

How the hell did Veach do this?

Give us your thoughts on individual players from the UDFA class. Veach needs to knock it out of the park like this every year.

Impossible! I was told no UDFA's would want to sign here ;)

Yeah, it's hard to make a judgment on an UDFA class because these are generally under the radar guys, but by any measure I can find, Veach absolutely crushed it. Only time can tell but there's a distinct possibility that Veach will further distance himself from some other GMs in this league w/ this UDFA class.

This is an excellent opportunity to show off a bit if you're truly exceptional. Could turn out that Veach is precisely that.

Who are the 3 potential starters?

My guess as to who he’s referring to:

Williams, Wright, and Hill/Davis?

Here is Gil Brandt’s undrafted rankings:

https://amp.nfl.com/news/top-undraft...3EAEAEA&sr=amp

Kalija Lipscomb WR, Yasir Durant OT and Javaris Davis CB were the best undrafted pickups at their position on this list. Darryl Williams IOL was 2nd on his positional list.

I’m a bit bummed we didn’t get Benito Jones. He looked like a very similar player to Derrick Nnandi but with ascending pass rush talent.

Williams and Townsend are likely starters, and then we have like three other guys in Durant, Wright, and Clemons who I think, among them, we’ll rope in a starter.

That doesn’t even include Lipscomb, Boccelli, Hill, and Javaris Davis.

This UDFA class is like 5 additional day three picks that we got for free, cap-wise.

I really do like what they've done throwing options at the IOL in the last couple of years. I even thought the GM's kid out of TN was a solid gamble (McKenzie?).

Williams is someone that I forget about a lot but he's damn intriguing. Durant isn't someone I see every playing LT at this level but with some luck he might be a good long-term replacement for someone like Remmers. They clearly have an approach here and it's just churning through as many toolsy options as possible in the hopes that 2 or 3 of them stick.

My big worry there isn't even Veach or the coaching staff writ large - it's Andy. He is so reluctant to make changes on his OL in-season. Guys that are clearly struggling will hang onto that starters gig like grim death. I'm not sure Rankin or Wiz ever get a legit shot without the injuries on the interior despite Wylie's struggles. It also makes me worry that Reiter is pretty much a lead pipe lock to hold that job at C absent injury.

Continuity is just such an overriding factor for Red that I'm curious how any of these developmental projects will get a look. The DBs get turned over a bit and LBs get a little as well, but he just doesn't rotate his OL much.

I actually don’t think any of them, except Townsend, get any shot on the field in 2020.

We’re going to need to develop these guys for 2021, though.

No doubt - like I said in your other thread, year 1 contributions from 3rd day picks (let alone UDFAs) are happy accidents - you definitely can't count on them.

I could see one of the DBs getting pressed into action early due to the Breeland suspension, if only in a STs role. And maybe working that Fenton/Ward track to late season relevance. A handful of interesting LBs that could unseat someone like Niemann given Spags affinity for more physical LBs and our relative lack of depth.

But yeah, these are loooooong shots to be sure.

Maybe Wright?

He’s got the least amount of resistance ahead of him. He is basically a smaller Ragland, so if we lose Wilson or lose Gay and Wilson has to slide back over...

Wright also seems, in my INCREDIBLY poorly informed opinion, to play a simpler style that would translate more quickly than Gay's.

I don't think its likely, but Wright may hit the ground more NFL ready than Gay while Gay tries to knock off some rust and/or smooth out some of the rough edges in his game. He's still a little prone to wasted movement and false steps that make him play slower than his speed at times.

Wright is much more 'see ball, hit ball' in a way that lowers his ceiling but makes his floor a little higher out of the chute.

Ultimately they have a lot of capital in Gay so I'd be shocked if it worked out that way, but there's something to be noted in simplicity for young players.

I think that’s fair. The job we’d be giving him would be a lot simpler than the job we’re giving Gay.

This season, if played, will have an absolutely minimal amount of turnover for this Chiefs team for a few relevant reasons.

1. There will be extremely limited amounts of practice time leading up to the season.
2. The offense usually takes a year or 2 to get the playbook and sight adjustments down under normal conditions.
3. Spags defense is also complex and takes time to learn. I don’t think many rookies are going to jump into starting jobs when this defense was really gelling down the stretch and in the postseason.
4. We just won the Super Bowl and are returning most of the starters from a championship roster.

Rookies that I think will be starters within the first 8 games:

CEH
Gay
Possibly Niang at LG

I think everyone else gets a red shirt.

I think KC got some really good UDFA signings.

Brett Veach's use of guaranteed money was also interesting. You can tell some of the players the Chiefs really wanted by the guaranteed money amount.

WR Kalija Lipscomb, Vanderbilt, $3,333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $100,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

OT Yasir Durant, Missouri, $3,333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $140,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

C Darryl Williams, Mississippi State, $2,333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $100,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

CB Lavert Hill, Michigan, $3,333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $100,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

P Tommy Townsend, Florida, $2,500 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $75,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

WR Cody White, Michigan State, $2,500 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $30,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

LB Omari Cobb, Marshall, $3,333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $40,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

CB Javaris Davis Auburn, $3,333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $10,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

S Rodney Clemons, SMU, $1,666 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $8,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

LB Bryan Wright, Cincinnati, $1,666 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $10,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

DE Tershawn Wharton, Missouri S & T, $1,666 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, no guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

G Jovahn Fair, Temple, $1,666 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, no guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

CB Jalen Julius, Mississippi, $1,000 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $5,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

CB Hakeem Bailey, West Virginia, $1,000 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, no guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

WR Justice Shelton-Mosley, Vanderbilt, $833 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, no guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

WR Andre Baccellia, Washington, $833 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $12,500 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

WR Maurice Ffrench, Pittsburgh, $833 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $2,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

WR Aleva Hifo, BYU, $333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, no guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

The last year of the prorated bonus might have a dollar or two added to make the total an even amount. Example Hifo was actually $333, $333, and $334 to make an even $1000 of bonus.

QB Shea Patterson, Michigan, received no bonus and no guaranteed money.

Durant is a future staple at tackle after our guys move on.

I try to temper my expectations bc odds are only 1 or so of these guys will be a starter on average.

I was sky high on Jamal Custis last year. Loved everything about him, but he was a dud.

So you gotta figure the Chiefs carry 9 offensive lineman, right? I wonder how much room there is for the new guys.

You can pretty much write a few of these guys in pen.

Fisher
Schwartz
LDT (otherwise they don't restructure)
Niang
Remmers
Rankin

Can't imagine any way those 6 aren't on the roster. Reiter almost certainly will be as well as he started all year, he's cheap and he's good in pass pro. Even if someone else takes the C job from him somehow, he just slots in too well as the backup C so let's just say those 7 spots are spoken for.

So you have two spots w/ Allegretti and Wylie having an edge for them. But ultimately you have these guys fighting for 2 spots:

Allegretti
Wylie
Senat
Hunter
Barton
Durant
Williams
Fair

So if Williams makes the team, it's at the expense of Allegretti or Wylie. If Niang makes a good guard conversion and Rankin comes back healthy enough to rely on, then Wylie's known quantity value drops a bit as well. At that point you could see Durant making the squad as a long-term swing tackle but even then, I think he'd have to leapfrog Senat (who the team seemed to like last year). Williams would end up your backup IOL at that point w/ Durant as the spare swing tackle behind Remmers.

It seems possible that Rankin could start the season on the IR but what limited information we've gotten there has suggested he's on the right track recovery-wise.

Kinda difficult sledding for the UDFA linemen, but I'd sure like to see them force themselves into the dialogue.

Wylie would have 20 starts to his resume with L/R interior flexibility, not to mention his experience at T from college. If a team needed OL depth, he is an ideal player for them, so he could have had some trade value (a 6th or 7th rounder maybe). Or maybe Veach does one of those crap-for-crap player swaps and we get a lottery ticket player at a position of more need.

The problem is the quarantine offseason doesn't give us time to evaluate the new players we brought in, nor does it give other teams an opportunity to spot a hole in their depth.

Oh well. I trust this staff, obviously, but I hope we don't go with a low-grade known like Wylie if there's actually something to work with and mold in Williams or Durant.

Yeah, there just appears to be a lot of overlap between Williams/Allegretti and Durant/Wylie.

But let's be honest - every team in the league passed on Williams and Durant multiple times. There's a reason for that. Meanwhile Wylie, for as much as he struggled last year, was a solid player in '18 and forced his way up an NFL depth chart. Allegretti showed enough in college to get drafted.

There's a good chance that novelty is doing more work than it should be here. But in the end I think the worst case scenario is that 9th guy in the room is someone that's started games for an eventual SB champion. That's not a bad place to find yourself.

You're also gonna have a weird offseason so I'm guessing they'll go more with guys they "know" whereas guys that might be better won't have that ability.

It's also possible that they run with 10 OL given the roster expansion. It would be a nice spot for a developmental prospect given the spotty contributions of the IOL and the fact that most of those guys are going to be FAs next season (I think LDT's deal voids, Reiter, Wylie and Remmers deals all expire, IIRC).

So you up the number of OL to 10 and come up with a phantom injury for another guy to tuck away on the IR and you manage to squirrel away a couple developmental guys. And you could probably get at least one of them on the PS as well.

I always wondered how the IR works. Does the NFL request doctors reports if they’re suspicious of the injury? Or do they just not give a **** until another team reports someone else?

I kinda feel like everyone turns a blind eye to it unless someone steps too far out of line.

I don't think the league does anything sua sponte and I don't think any organizations are gonna report anyone else because they all kinda wink/wink their way through it.

Ultimately I guess it would have to be a player or agent that would serve to blow the doors off something.

The Kansas City Chiefs offensive line with age and current contract.. The dollar figures beside “CAP”, is the cap number with the number of contract years. Trade cost is Cap dollars with post June 1 trade.

#72 Eric Fisher, age 29, Central Michigan, 6-7, 315,
CAP $14,981,666, $14,681,668, Dead Money $8,913,334

#74 Martinas Rankin, age 25, Mississippi State, 6-5, 311,
CAP $750,000, $920,000, Dead Money $0

#62 Austin Reiter, age 28, South Florida, 6-3, 300,
CAP $3,758,334, Dead Money $333,334

#76 Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, age 29, McGill, 6-5, 321,
CAP $5,500,000, $4,000,000, Dead Money $9,500,000

#71 Mitchell Schwartz, age 30, California, 6-5, 320,
CAP $10,820,000, $10,005,000, Dead Money $14,220,000

#73 Nick Allegretti, age 24, Illinois, 6-4, 320,
CAP $712,488, $887,988, $1,002,988, Dead Money $83,964, Trade Cost $27,988

#68 Jackson Barton, age 24, Utah, 6-7, 302,
CAP $690,000, Dead Money $15,000

#60 Ryan Hunter, age 25, Bowling Green, 6-3, 316,
CAP $675,000, Dead Money $0

#70 Greg Senat, age 25, Wagner, 6-6, 305,
CAP $675,000, $850,000, Dead Money $0

#75 Mike Remmers, age 31, Oregon State, 6-5, 308,
CAP $887,500, Dead Money $887,500, Trade Cost $137,500

#67 Lucas Niang, TCU, 6-6, 315, Not signed yet

#77 Andrew Wylie, age 25, Eastern Michigan, 6-6, 309,
CAP $750,000, Dead Money $0

#?? Yasir Durant, age 21, Missouri, 6-6, 331,
CAP $612,333, $783,333, $898,334, Dead Money $150,000, Trade Cost $3,333

#?? Darryl Williams, age 22, Mississippi State, 6-2, 304,
CAP $612,333, $782,333, $897,334, Dead Money $107,000, Trade Cost $2,333

#?? Jovahn Fair, age 23, Temple, 6-2, 315,
CAP $611,666, $781,666, $896.668, Dead Money $5,000

It is hard to narrow this list down to 9 players for the OL.

Information from https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/kansas-city-chiefs/

They carried 11 OL at one point last season. I started a (bad) joke thread about it.

I think it's a slam dunk they carry 10 in the coming season.

My projections:

Starters: Fisher, Wylie, Reiter, Duvarney-Tardif, Schwartz
Reserves: Niang, Rankin, Allegretti, Remmers, Williams

Trade bait, or practice squad: Barton

Practice squad: Durant, Senat

Put in a cannon and fired into the sun: Hunter

Yeah - every time I went through the list and saw Hunters name on there, it almost irked me that he'll get a Super Bowl ring. He was somehow on the active roster for the SB - just crazy.

He has to be a non-factor, right?

I think they'll give all 5 of those reserves a long look at replacing Wylie. They seemed REALLY down on him last year and you just never see that for starting OL on Reid's squads. Just think of the chaff Andy has let ride out the season as a starter. Mike McGlynn, Ryan Harris, Jah Reid, Bryan Witzmann. You get in that starting lineup and nothing short of amputation will have you removed.

They cited injury for Wylie but they were pretty clearly trying to find a soft landing for him down the stretch. Had he been performing, he'd have probably never missed a game.

Wylie seems to be playing out the string here, but he also seems like a fairly popular teammate so I suspect they'll keep him around for the year as a cost-effective reserve and insurance policy. Andy's career in Philly was largely ended by an OL that fell apart w/ nothing behind them so I would be surprised if he ever finds himself that exposed again.

Well as you noted, Reid is big on hanging on to guys on OL, and this offseason is unfair to newbies trying to crack the roster, so it's as good a time as any for Ryan Hunter to make the roster.

His play was so atrocious last year in, I think, only 16 snaps at LG that I can't believe he stayed on the roster. But there he was, actually on the active 46 in Miami. So don't ask me.

I think they really do want to improve on Wylie at LG -- they clearly wanted to improve at all three interior OL spots.

RG: they went hard for Andrus Peat
C: widely believed they were circling Cesar Ruiz
LG: they drafted Niang -- a tackle -- and have said they'd like to see him at LG

Wylie is clearly on the hotseat, but I can't see a guy on the roster who starts over him. Niang is a pure tackle. I think they really like Rankin, who has a real shot. Allegretti seems more of a center and Hunter is an abomination. And I don't know anything about Senat or Barton, except they were on the roster for most of the season last year.

Maybe that's where Remmers comes in. Maybe that's what Sweeney was talking about, I don't know.

Reid never seems to have an issue w/ taller interior linemen. I tend to prefer them at around 6'3" but Reid just doesn't seem all that concerned about the leverage issues. Seems he believes it can be coached out and that's that. So ultimately I wouldn't call Niang a 'pure tackle' anymore than I'd have called Wylie one when he came out of college as a T himself. Reid will put levery guys on the interior line.

The issue I see with Niang at G is that he'd be at LG and asking a rookie to switch positions AND sides is asking a whole lot of him, especially with a shortened schedule.

And if Wylie has the job out of camp, he'll have it all year unless he's injured.

So yeah, seems like it would need to be Rankin or Remmers as they're more likely to be NFL ready w/ the truncated timeline. I think anyone that can play C can also play G, so if Allegretti shows progress I see no reason why he couldn't win the job. Williams looks so damn powerful in his clips but not terribly athletic so I wonder if that will work for Reid. He's also a little shorter which again - not a problem for me but might just be a problem for Andy.

If Rankin is healthy, I think he gets the gig.

Rankins actually looked good when he was in at LG. I would rather give Niang a year to learn the offense as the swing tackle.

I think we've overstated how good Rankin was, but he showed enough potential that with additional development he could win the job.

I mean we kill Wylie, but he gave up 2 sacks in over 700 snaps. Rankin gave up 1 in less than 300. Small sample size caveats apply for Rankin but he'd have needed to go 400+ additional snaps without giving up a sack to 'beat' Wylie and if he gives up only 1 he's just on par with the guy who we thought was just trash in pass pro.

And the run blocking was no better with Rankin in there than it was with Wylie.

I'm basing my faith in Rankin on the fact that he showed himself capable of being an adequate backup with very little experience and he has the pedigree (college and draft status) to continue improving. But if the injury gets in the way of that, he's probably no better than Wylie. He needs to continue to develop to win that spot.

Y'know who Rankin kinda reminds me of? Jeff Allen.

Allen played some T at the NFL level after playing it in college and did okay at it because he's just a pretty broad dude. So he'd move (alright) and make guys take an extra step to beat him. He wasn't going to be able to hold up on an island for long drops, but he could buy you just enough time for a conventional 3-5 step setup by simply being large and in the way.

When he played G, his average athleticism could be masked a bit and he was a solid if unspectacular player there. Ultimately he was a pretty typical good college T who needed to go inside at the next level but could fill in outside in a pinch.

Rankin's a pretty broad guy and like I said - his pedigree as a 1st team all-SEC left tackle says he has plenty of potential and versatility. Seems like he's cut from an awfully similar cloth to Allen but Allen was just a little more polished, IMO. Rankin's shown some rough edges in Texas and again last season in KC. He can be better than Wylie, but he still needs to work on his craft to get there. I'm not convinced he's more than a lateral move if he hasn't improved from where he was last season.

Winner!

Well if the Chiefs are planning to pay Jones and Mahomes, they're gonna have to find lots of guys via the UDFA route. Probably for the next few seasons...not that Chiefs don't already do this, but you'll probably see the Chiefs go this route more than usual.

If they're lucky, they can snag a couple starters out of it, perhaps a few role players or those who can be immediate contributors.

The Kansas City Chiefs Offensive Line
From UDFAs, one bench player and one practice squad

Starters
LT #72 Eric Fisher, age 29, Central Michigan, 6-7, 315,
CAP charge through 2021 - $14,981,666, $14,681,668

LG #74 Martinas Rankin, age 25, Mississippi State, 6-5, 311,
CAP charge through 2021 - $750,000, $920,000

C #62 Austin Reiter, age 28, South Florida, 6-3, 300,
CAP charge through 2020 - $3,758,334

RG #76 Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, age 29, McGill, 6-5, 321,
CAP charge through 2021 - $5,500,000, $4,000,000

RT #71 Mitchell Schwartz, age 30, California, 6-5, 320,
CAP charge through 2021 - $10,820,000, $10,005,000

Bench
C/G #73 Nick Allegretti, age 24, Illinois, 6-4, 320,
CAP charge through 2022 - $712,488, $887,988, $1,002,988

T/G #75 Mike Remmers, age 31, Oregon State, 6-5, 308,
CAP charge through 2020 - $887,500

G/T #67 Lucas Niang, TCU, 6-6, 315, Not signed yet

G #77 Andrew Wylie, age 25, Eastern Michigan, 6-6, 309,
CAP charge through 2020 - $750,000 – RFA in 2021

T #70 Yasir Durant, age 21, Missouri, 6-6, 331,
CAP charge through 2022 - $612,333, $783,333, $898,334

Practice Squad
C #?? Darryl Williams, age 22, Mississippi State, 6-2, 304,
Dead Money $107,000

I think Darryl gets plucked if we put him on the Squad.

Yeah, Durant seems like a more likely PS stash because he simply wasn't as good as Williams in college and while Williams could probably be a backup C option for several NFL teams right now (especially those that aren't looking to compete this year), Durant probably requires a position switch and a lot of technique work to be rosterable.

Durant may have more long-term upside, but he's less capable of contributing immediately so the odds of him being plucked off a PS onto an active roster are more remote.

Actually, if Rankin isn't ready to go, he could be stashed on the PUP. He'd be eligible to return after week 6, and he wouldn't use up one of the 2 return from IR options.

Keep in mind that Wylie lined up next to Schwartz during the 2018 season while Rankin, an August 31st 2019 acquisition, lined up next to Cam Erving.

I'd love to see the Chiefs solve the left guard position, whether it's Rankin, Niang or whomever, because the reality of the situation is that the Chiefs haven't had a solid, let alone spectacular year-in and year-out left guard, since Brian Waters retired after the 2010 season.

I really like TerShawn Wharton to generate a lot of surprise buzz during camp and to flash in preseason contests. He dominated against weak competition as he should have and has some serious athleticism for a man his size. With the coaching and surrounding veterans he will have, he could prove to be a real gem.

I think IOL will be the area we tend to go low-cost on for the foreseeable future. That doesn't really explain the LDT restructure apart from them maybe just not seeing the depth they'd hoped for on the interior just yet.

I mean they wouldn't pay for a Pro Bowl guy in Morse or Hudson so clearly the bar for a second contract is pretty high. Unless they stumble into a true anchor there; a Grubbs in his prime sort - I gotta imagine there's gonna be substantial turnover there for as long as they're paying through the nose on skill position guys.

Or maybe if they don't have the luxury of bookend Ts that are costing them a bit more they'd put more money at G. Maybe they earmark say 15% of their cap to the OL in any given year and if they don't have a Fisher/Schwartz duo they need to fit into that cap, they'd spend a little more to retain a guy like Morse.

But Andy will ALWAYS be on the lookout for valuable Ts given his belief in the shell concept. So with finite resources and a position that's a little easier to cut corners on, I figure IOL will always be a little piecemeal.

Weren't they in on Hudson til the end though? I wouldn't have been opposed to keeping him around but money is money i guess. Morse just was too injury prone for my taste. I would really like to see them invest heavily in a center at some point though.

Yes and no. They were busting their asses in-season to get something done and thought they had it wrapped up but Hudson backed out at the last minute. And I can't blame him - you take someone to week 7 of their FA season and what's their benefit in signing early?

Once he went to FA and the offers started rolling in that were 30-40% higher than what the Chiefs thought they were gonna get done previously, they were out of the running.

Additionally, they didn't have Mitchell Schwartz at the time so that may have played a part in it. They didn't have that more expensive RT to pay for so they were willing to pay for Hudson.

So you say Morse was too injury prone and you'd like to see them invest in C - but if that played out that way in '15 and Hudson came back only to take them out of the running for Schwartz, would you be happy with that (rhetorical question...I hope).

I think they have a philosophy of building from the outside in on the OL unless that option just isn't available to them.

No, Schwartz is just a cornerstone over there and arguably one of the better players league wide. He's not going anywhere.

By invest I meant more of an earlier round draft pick

I'll never find the research, but there has been a lot done on the relative ROI for position groups.

Early round IOL provide only marginally better outcomes than RBs and LBs. RBs actually showed an inverted yield curve with off-ball linebackers being almost completely flat.

Large numbers over the last several years say that you're just not that much more likely to get a difference maker in the 1st round than you are in the 3rd or 4th for IOL.

I'm personally fine with piecemeal on the IOL. Andy's proven time and time again that late rounders and UDFA's who have a particular skillset can be molded into solid players for this offense.

That's what killed me when so many forum members were all screaming for an IOL in the first round of the 2020 draft: "We need a guard or a center or both! Gotta protect the MVP!". I found that not only to be wrong but absurd. The best running back in the draft is going to make much bigger difference - a very tangible difference - than the best center or guard.

The Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with a 7th round center, a 6th round guard, half a dozen starters at LG and a Cam Erving at LT for 8 games.

I think Andy's got a handle on this offensive line thing, despite the fact that most Chiefs fans think that the offensive line excellence is the only way to win.

Just a reminder, though - every game they lost was with Cam Erving at LT.

Just because you did a thing doesn't mean that's the way you should be trying to do it. I know that wasn't your major point, but it tiptoes close to saying "well if we can do it with Erving at LT, how important is LT?"

Massively so. And that's why I think Fisher gets shit on too often. We don't even TRY to run Wasp with him out there. We can cut corners here and there on the IOL but we can't do that out wide.

I was just pointing at that they were able to win with a Cam Erving - who's awful and certainly far from ideal.

I think the idea of investing heavily in tackles while grooming late rounders on the interior has been a proven method for Andy and the Chiefs and I see no reason to change that philosophy, regardless of whether or not the "MVP" is behind center.

Now, maybe, if the team is so absolutely loaded in 2022 or 2023 that they decide to go with a center or guard with their first pick - okay, that's reasonable. But when there are far better athletes that can make an immediate and lasting contribution to the team?

I just can't go there.

Yeah, I never understood all of the Fisher hate and defended him early and often. I don't think he gets enough respect now, even after witnessing the horrible play of Erving last season. If he stays relatively healthy, I think Fisher plays for another 4 or 5 years, which will probably coincide with the departure of many of the other players from this Super Bowl era.

It'll be interesting to see how they rebuild the team for Pat's "Prime" years.

First off, it's rare under Reid/Veach that UDFAs make the 53-man (now 55) roster right out of training camp. Most that make it spend some time on the practice squad. That said, I think this year's crop has potential. Here's my analysis and guess for guys that will make it straight up and that I think have PS potential. And either way, rookies that are 3rd rounders or lower rarely see the field under Reid.

WR Kalija Lipscomb, Vanderbilt - Has a solid shot of making this roster and is a carbon copy of Demarcus Robinson in my opinion. With all the receivers heading out the door next year, getting another on the cheap this year would be extremely beneficial. I think Lipscomb makes the 55.

OT Yasir Durant, Missouri - I think he absolutely makes the team in some capacity, but when I say that I include the practice squad. I think you stash him on the PS this year and let him develop as a guard.

C Darryl Williams, Mississippi State - He has the attitude but he's a bit shorter and lacks the athleticism of a traditional Reid center. I don't think he makes the roster but might stick on the PS for a bit.

CB Lavert Hill, Michigan - Hill has some ball skills but he's not athletic enough. He can't tackle real well or I'd maybe project him to safety. I'd say no.

P Tommy Townsend, Florida - The guy I was hoping KC would find a way to snag and thought he'd be the pick when KC moved into the 7th round. He's the new MVP imo.

WR Cody White, Michigan State - If he were faster, he would have been drafted. I really like his size, his hands, and his ability to find open spots in zone. He's a fringe guy but I'm not so sure he sticks. Out.

LB Omari Cobb, Marshall - I'll give any LB a 51% chance to make this team given the lack of quality. That said, Cobb is high-cut, has very average NFL LB speed, is an effective but unorthodox tackler with little pop, and is undersized. So, I lean towards a probably not. He does put himself in the play more often than not though. Either way, out.

CB Javaris Davis Auburn - I fully think height was the reason he wasn't drafted; I can't fathom another. I think he makes the 55 as a nickel.

S Rodney Clemons, SMU - I think this guy has a solid shot to make the 55 as the 5th safety replacing Lucas. He's a guy that shows the ability to do everything but needs coaching to reach full potential. I like him alot and if that mental aspect catches his physical ability he could be a stud. That said, the likelihood of actually making the roster is slim and I'm not high enough on him to say yes. Practice Squad.

LB Bryan Wright, Cincinnati - I like Wright more than I like Cobb. I think he's more explosive, he's got some big-hitter to him, and he's wired with a crazy button. I'd give Wright a solid shot to make this team and can fill more of the role that Ragland left behind. That said, it's going to be really hard for a UDFA guy to come in and make the team regardless of position. I'll put him on the PS.

DE Tershawn Wharton, Missouri S & T - The same physical build as Matt Judon had at Grand Valley State and similar explosive traits. I hate to put this guy in or out right now, but he has a shot, thats for sure. I'm going with PS stash this year.

G Jovahn Fair, Temple - No doubt stood out in evaluations of Temple Center Matt Hennessy but he's a solid player and another academic guy. That said, he's a bit short (6'2") and doesn't look to have the athletic prowess Reid loves, but he has a shot with experience at LG. I'm going with no.

CB Jalen Julius, Mississippi - With Hill and Davis, its obvious that Veach is looking for a NB solution with all these UDFAs. I like Julius a little. He has a bit of juice but he's not a great ball player and has marginal instincts. I'd say no.

CB Hakeem Bailey, West Virginia - Bailey has a solid shot because he plays outside but he has plenty of competition, especially with Sneed and Bopete being drafted. I'd give him a much better go at making the PS this year.

WR Justice Shelton-Mosley, Vanderbilt
WR Andre Baccellia, Washington
WR Maurice Ffrench, Pittsburgh
WR Aleva Hifo, BYU - Throwing these 4 into a bag, shaking it up, and seeing what drops out... They all pretty well bring the same thing to the table - undersized and underwhelming receivers with abilities in the return game. I see Ffrench as the best receiver but I like Hifo as the most explosive player. I'm guessing none make the team but at least one ends up on the PS. I'll maintain the BYU connection and go with Hifo.

QB Shea Patterson, Michigan - Camp fodder and nothing more. He sucks.

Overall

Make the Roster
WR Kalija Lipscomb
P Tommy Townsend
NB Javaris Davis

Make the Practice Squad
OC Darryl Williams
LB Bryan Wright
OT Yasir Durant
DE Tershawn Wharton
SS Rodney Clemons
CB Hakeem Bailey
WR Aleva Hifo

We gotta talk about this UDFA class.
 

Veach will have to have a lot of UDFA’s make the team when Mahomes is getting $50 million per year.

UDFA’s making the team in 2020:

1. Tommy Townsend
2. Javaris Davis
3. Rodney Clemens
4. Omari Cobb
5. Cody White
6. Darryl Williams
7. Yasir Durant

Javaris Davis is a ****ing monster. How did this guy go undrafted? Must be his size only.

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2020/...urn-interview/

Seems Veach has a plan to shape the roster around the Mahomes and possibly a Jones extension, by going in big on quality UFDAs.

He paid some big UFDA signing bonuses for a reason.

LMAO

You're certifiable if you think that 7 UDFA's are going to make the 55 this season.

How many UDFA's have made the Chiefs roster their rookie seasons in the past decade?

Good grief.

The Chiefs had to overpay for certain players because if he hadn't, they'd have signed with another team.

Last year, the Chiefs gave out $40k+ to multiple UDFA's and not one of them made it to the 53 last season. Cody Thompson, another CP hero, didn't make the 53, lasted about a week on the PS, signed with Seattle and was dumped by them during the season.

These guys are UDFA's for a reason and the likelihood that any of them make the 55 this year is slim.

It’s actually not slim because Townsend is probably our punter.

Townsend and Davis are both pretty close to locks.

I was taking about football players, not punters.

I think there's a really good chance Townsend and Davis make it for special teams purposes (also wonder if Davis couldn't be a nice fit in the slot, too).

I like Lipscomb's chances if they end up carrying 6 WR.

Gotta think a Breeland suspension of any duration that moves Fenton outside will give Davis a pretty good shot at sticking.

But with so many teams using their best receiver in the slot fairly frequently, it's still gonna be hard for him to stick. People like to say things like "if not for his height he'd have gone much earlier..."

But height matters at defensive back. Sometimes you can be right where you need to be and the other guy's just bigger and takes it away. We learned that lesson several times with Brandon Flowers. He'd have perfect coverage and the bigger, stronger WR would just body him out and take the ball away or go up over him.

5'8" is just gonna be tough to overcome. People like Mathieu are the exception that proves that rule.

I personally think Hill has a better shot than Davis.

100%

I think he will start at center in the first half of the season.

Not a chance in hell, unless it's due to injury.

There's no ****ing way undrafted free agent that hasn't been in OTA's, mincamps or even the rookie minicamp is going to know all of the line calls and have any chemistry with the other four starters, let alone, have enough time to spend with Mahomes, in order to start this season.

That's just beyond dumb.

I wouldn't put any money on either of them. Combine the two and you end up with a 1st day pick, but ultimately Hill doesn't have the athleticism to my eyes (also seems to lack some intuitiveness as well) and Davis doesn't have the size (but really nice instincts).

I think both are just TOO deficient in the areas they're deficient. Then again, I'd have said almost exactly the same thing about Fenton (and probably did) that I just said about Hill. And Breeland's athleticism is pretty mediocre as well. And both of them were pretty important and largely productive last season.

So maybe Spags has figured his way around some of the athleticism limitations of some of his DBs. But I'd be shocked if he hand-waived Davis's size.

Yeah - that's a pretty hot take right there.

I could see them trying Wylie out there (and obviously Allegretti) before they toss Williams in. Or Rankin w/ Wylie backfilling at G (or Remmer at G or C with a conversion elsewhere) And I LIKE Williams - he intrigues the hell out of me. But like you said, the rookies have lost any real opportunity to stand out here.

And worse still, with a truncated schedule, there's just not a lot of **** around time to toss him in there with the 1s, so how's he ever going to truly take that job from an established starter, a guy that's been here a year (and was actually drafted) and even a couple of possible IOL conversion candidates?

Just incredibly long odds here.

Yep.

It's one thing for Andy to keep an UDFA because of depth issues (e.g., Albert Wilson, Ben Niemann, Darrel Williams) but there are multiple guys blocking Williams this year at center.

It would be completely awesome if he dominated in camp and picked up the offense quickly because the Chiefs just haven't been able keep their offensive lineman healthy from Week 1 to Week 20. But even if that happens, I think it would be out of character for Reid to start a UDFA over a veteran when a second consecutive Super Bowl is in play.

And the idea of an in-season promotion ignores Andy's history of favoring continuity over a potential upgrade.

If the dude's starting this year, it will almost have to be on opening day or in the case of a MASSIVE spate of injuries. If he earns the job outright somehow, I'd immediately start thinking of down-ballot ROY votes and pro-bowl consideration because that's the kind of potential Andy will need to see IMMEDIATELY if he's going to pull that trigger.

From a guy that didn't get drafted? I mean - it has happened before - but it don't happen often and with the need to make protection calls to protect that most valuable asset in sports, I really can't see it happening at that position.

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/25-best...ayers-all-time

Here's a list from April 2020 that ranks the top 25 best UDFA's of all time. Outside of Marion Motley, who dominated the NFL during his rookie season of 1946, none of those players were Pro Bowlers in their rookie seasons.

New Orleans WR Deonte Harris went from undrafted in 2019 to making the Pro Bowl as a rookie kick returner but I think we can all agree that KR is very different from center.

So, what makes Mathieu different? Is it how he's being used? I mean, the guy covers TEs. Does Spags know how to use another athlete of smaller stature? I suppose we'll find out.

Instincts.

Dude has unreal instincts.

Davis has pretty great instincts as well. Outside of NFL experience, I wonder what separates the two.

We gotta talk about this UDFA class.
 

CB Lavert Hill, Michigan, $3,333 prorated bonus for each of 3 years, $100,000 guaranteed salary. 3 year contract.

If Hill was 2-3” taller he would have been a 1st round pick.

I’m certifiable mofo!

This ****er is making the team!

https://youtu.be/nFqGkT6btGk

If you are paying Mahomes $50M+ each year than you are going to have a lot of UDFA’s make the team.

Veteran guy making $5 million or a UDFA that can do the job. You figure it out. Duh

If the Chiefs are paying Mahomes $50 million, it's because the salary cap is $250 million at the very minimum, which would leave plenty of room for free agents, signing their own free agents and so on.

It's not going to be Mahomes and 21 guys off the street. Not a chance.

Watching ESPNU & they’re showing games from last year & Lavert Hill is a baller. If he was just a little bit taller.

Still think he makes the team.

Well and I guess that's ultimately my point - I really don't know.

But I know every 5 years or so there's a new 'pocket DB' that vastly outperforms their pedigree and it's rare that there are more than 1 or 2 guys across all the NFL defensive backs that play that well with a really small stature.

So I understand your question, but until you can truly identify exactly why MATHIEU is so good, you can't answer it. I personally incline towards tenacity and instincts (need both) but only because I watched him on a couple of occasions literally torch THREE reads. I have never seen a safety do what he when he pulled that off. He'd knock someone off his route, pick up a second route and then drift off onto a 3rd and have the QB so spooked he'd just quit outright.

We can sit there and say things like "Davis looks like he has good instincts..." but to do so doesn't give enough credit to just how flipping unreal Mathieu's are. No, Davis's aren't like that. Nobody else in the NFL does that right now. That's what I mean when I say he's the exception that proves the rules.

Guy just don't do what Mathieu does. And if there was a real chance that Davis plays with that kind of vision, he doesn't go undrafted. And he damn sure has a more impactful college career. I mean Mathieu was a damn Heisman finalist, Bednarik winner and the SEC player of the year and Consensus All-American as a TRUE SOPHOMORE.

Javaris Davis....wasn't. Any of that. despite 5 years in the system at Auburn.

Davis has never been anywhere near the player Mathieu was at any level. There's no good faith basis for trying to mention him in the same breath as Mathieu. Is there a chance he makes the team? Sure, why not? If everything breaks precisely correctly for him he may even start for a year or three at some point and provide credible play in the same way Steven Nelson did. Is there a chance he possesses the same traits that have set Mathieu apart from 100 guys with similar measurements/tools as him? No. None at all. There's a clear separation between these guys.

Mathieu reminds me Deron Cherry, who was great in run support but also had 50 INT's in an era primarily driven by the ground game.

Mathieu dropped or missed a few INT's last season, something he was fully aware and admitted.

I think he'll be even better in 2020 because he'll know when to trust the other defensive players, allowing him to freelance a bit more and become a bit more of a ball hawk.

I'd be shocked and thrilled if Javaris Davis makes the team and has anywhere near the same results as Mathieu.

Expanding the practice squad to up to 16 players is being discussed.

This sounds like it may help us keep some additional talent under contract to develop, which also helps Veatch manage the salary cap if a few make the big jump.

Good time to have heavily invested in quality UDFA’s...

LINK: Report: DT Tershawn Wharton a near lock to make Chiefs' 53-man roster