Why are Rivers and Eli HOF candidates?
 

Just hearing this garbage about these guys is annoying as hell. Why do they get to get in?

What has Rivers done besides stat padding?

Eli never had an all pro season, never had a QB rating higher than 94 and won all of his postseason games with defenses that gave up 21 or less points.

Is the HOF really going this soft? Will they literally let just anyone that’s played forever in?

Eli helped stop Brady from having two more rings and kept the cheating Patriots from having a perfect season.

The HOF overemphasizes QBs. Film at 11.

It's all a popularity contest anymore. And obligatory Manning reference.

Eli will get in . Rivers nope

Eli should, Rivers shouldn’t. Rivers can be in the hall of good.

Eli was the QB of 2 super bowl winners, including one being an historic comeback against a (previously) 18-0 team.

Rivers is well inside the top 10 of pretty much every passing category there is.

Nitpick all you want, but electing those guys is not the "NFL going soft". There are many more questionable picks already in the Hall than those guys.

Eli has 2 rings.

Rivers is his generation’s Marino.

Pretty simple.

Eli deserves it just for keeping the pedophile from two rings.

Rivers got a lot of DBs paid, well. Eli is the Great Pumpkin, or something.

So does Phil Simms.

It’s the hall lowering their standards over the years more than anything

It’s a business. They have to keep adding to the cupboard to keep the customers happy.

Well I guess if that cheating Donx scum Davis can get in for two Super Bowls and nothing else, they might as well induct Eli.

Except he wasn't half as talented as Marino.

Eh, I would argue that he's not anywhere close to Marino. Marino was clearly the best quarterback of his generation other than maybe Montana. Rivers wasn't in the top 20 percent of his generation.

This is the only valid argument for Eli. But I have a very strong position that no one who tries to cheat the draft system should ever be considered for the Hall of Fame.

No Eli Manning.
No Bo Jackson.
No John Elway.
No Kelly Stouffer.

None of those guys was good enough anyway. Just snuff them all off the list and forget about them.

Rivers lack of playoff success has to hurt him. Eli will never be in the convo among the real elite guys and is probably on the borderline. But the fact he has has two SBs, top 10 in passing TDs and yards. He's probably in. Plus his playoff runs were legendary. Beat an undefeated team for the first title, then the next title run he played great, beat Aaron Rodgers in Lambeau at the height of his powers when that team had won 21 of 22 games, then beat Brady a second time. He certainly didn't fluke his way to either of those championships. He beat some of the best QBs of all-time at the absolute peak of their careers.

Eli has 2 Superbowl rings and Rivers has stats

Rivers is the biggest choke artist in NFL history. He always found a way to lose the big game.

The second half of Eli’s career with the Giants, 8 seasons after his second Super Bowl win were dreadful… 7 missed playoffs in 8 of those seasons.

QB is by far the most important position. Are they really overrated in the media, in salaries or notoriety? Why would we think that?


I don’t put a huge premium on titles although I won’t say it’s wrong. NFL is a grind weekly so 10 wins for 15 years like Phillis had > Joe Flaccid’s title.


Do they deserve to be in? I’ll listen either way but were they faces of their franchise? Guys you’d watch? Guys who we are talking about today?

I honestly think Rivers should be in the HOF before Eli.. just too many bad years on Eli's resume.

It’s so weird. Eli was almost the exact opposite of Peyton.

Eli was just an average regular season QB, but balled out in the playoffs.

Rivers I was nothing but a choker. The guy had it all. He constantly had very talented teams and won next to nothing in his career.

Eli didn’t win those Super Bowl’s. He got lucky on the Tyree catch but aside from that it was obvious that the Giants defense is what won them those titles.

Mahomes already has a better resume than both of them combined.

They put Terrell Davis in the goddamn HOF.

Bill Cowher is in the hall in spite of only having one Super Bowl and having a paltry amount of career wins for a HOF coach.

I remember when Priest set the TD record, people were wondering about his chances of going to the HOF. Some of it was just talk about what more he would have to do, but it was largely agreed that the precedent set in place was career production above all else, so he would have needed a good handful of successful years following that record season in order to get in.

And now it's just, "Oh, you had a nice little run for a couple seasons? You're in! You're a QB who played 15 seasons? You're in!"

For ****'s sake, these days you could make a ****ing argument that Alex Smith's injury recovery was so impressive and brilliant that he deserves to be in the HOF. I'm not saying he should, only that the new standards the NFL has allowed the HOF to become are pretty embarrassing. It's basically now if they like you, you're in.

Oh, I wouldn't go that far with Rivers. He was no Dan Marino.

If Rivers gets in, the I guess the floodgates will open for other non-deserving QB's like Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford (at least to date - maybe he'll do something with the Rams but until he does, he's just another guy with a bunch of stats).

I really hope the writers are smart enough to see that while Rivers has big numbers, he was never able to put the Chargers on his back and will his team to a significant victory, even while playing next to two other Hall of Famers in Tomlinson and Gates.

As for Eli, the dude won two Super Bowls for the New York Giants. He's a shoo-in.

Terry Bradshaw had 212 TD's and 210 INT's. But he was the QB of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who won 4 Super Bowl titles with him, so he's in the Hall of Fame.

Eli threw 344 TD's vs. 266 INT's and won two Super Bowl titles, one against an 18-0 team.

He's a lock, regardless of his down years.

What's sad is that Davis had a total of 8,887 yards and 60 TD's while playing next to the #1 overall pick in 1983 and a fellow Hall of Famer, while Priest Holmes had 86 TD's and 11,134 total yards while playing next to Trent Dilfer, Tony Banks, Damon Huard and a broken Trent Green.

If there's any organization that needs to clean house, it's the Pro Football Writers of America.

And what's a damn shame is that Terez is no longer here to talk some sense into those morons.

FWiW

Marino - Rivers
240 - 240 - Games started
147- 134 - Wins
8-10 - 5-7 - Playoff record
61K - 63K - Yds
420 - 421 - TDs
252 - 209 - INT
59 - 64 - Comp %
86 - 95 - QB Rating

Some similar passing #s, although Marino played in an era when 3000 yards was a good season compared to 4000 for Rivers

I’d have to do some number crunching so I’ll revisit this post in like 2 or 3 days-going out of town-but Rivers was a phenomenal QB who literally got the wrong results in the postseason similar to Marino.

The 2006 loss to the Patriots was in large part due to an incredibly fluke fumble on an interception return that Marty wasted his last timeout on an unsuccessful challenge in addition to Kaeding shitting the bed

He went toe to toe with the 2007 Patriots on a torn ACL in the AFC Championship game in Foxboro.

Yes, his team didn’t make the SB, took advantage of a down AFC West for like 5 years, but he still played at a high level.

Ryan’s probably in for longevity along with multiple PO appearances and a MVP. Stafford is similar caliber of him but was stuck in Detroit.

I hear all the time from Donk homers, "He had a 2000 yard season!"

Okay. Then put Chris Johnson in the HOF. You run for 2000, you get in the hall!

Then they hem and haw about "Well, it was the 2000 yard season in a Super Bowl year, and blah blah blah..."

There's going to have to be a new more stringent benchmark for QBs in the HOF. QB play used to boil down to throwing more TDs than INTs in a season, and the guys who did that consistently got in the HOF (and they also had to win Super Bowls and/or have legendary and lengthy careers).

It's pretty easy for any asshat these days to meet those standards, so the NFL HOF is going to have to start being choosy. Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Matt Stafford all have HOF career numbers, but you're going to put all three of those guys in the hall? You start doing that and pretty soon you won't have room for any of the other legendary players at other positions.

You keep going down this path and it becomes a slippery slope to putting Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, and Cam Newton in the hall, too.

It's gotta stop at some point. Draw the line and mark it clearly for ****'s sake.

In short, cornerbacks and safeties could all but mug receivers in Marino's era, whereas one wrong look could be called for a penalty during Rivers' era.

And trust me, Rivers got a lot those calls.

Rivers and Eli have the stats to be considered, but Rivers probably won't get in because of his utter lack of playoff success.

Eli will get in in large part because his brother is considered perhaps the best QB of all time. But the fact is, that outside of two Rings and some flashes of brilliance in those two playoff runs, Eli was statistically exactly dead-nuts average as an NFL QB. And even in those SB runs, look at his numbers; a tick over 200 yds/gm, a bit over 60% completion percentage, just 6 Td passes in 2007 through 4 games, and 9 in 2011 campaign, so something less than 2 Tds/game and a couple ticks over 2 TDs a game in 2011. Whoopee.

But TD/INT ratio, the one stat that jumps out at you. 3:1 in 2007, and a whopping 9:1 in 2011. Outside of that one stat line, Eli was basically Teddy Bridgewater.

I don't know if there's any possible compilation of these numbers, but Matt Ryan has got to be the all-time leader in garbage yards. I've had him as a fantasy QB a few times, and 58 yds/0 TDs in the 1st half was never a concern. With the game out of hand, he was always good for 250/2 TDs in the 2nd half, most coming in 4Q.

Eli is like Trent Dilfer if Trent Dilfer was carried to one more Superbowl by that defense. The only thing Eli had to do was not **** it up, and he did that, but not **** it up doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame.

Regular season winning %
Eli - 50%
Jim Plunkett - 50%

playoff record
Eli 8-4, 2 SB wins
Plunkett 8-2, 2 SB wins

Yeah but the reality is he still won two Super Bowls and beat some legends in the process. Not many QBs have ever won more. And a lot of winning QBs don't blow through the playoffs. That's a fantasy. Roethlisberger won 2 but his first one he put up a truly horrible stat line. Russell Wilson was a 200 yards/game passer early in his career with an all-time defense. Peyton Manning threw a bunch of INT during the Colts Super Bowl run and we all know he was completely washed during the last one. To this point even Mahomes career Super Bowl stats are fairly average.

Honestly the two QBs in recent years who really turned it on in the playoffs and just had a lights out playoff run all the way through were Joe Flacco and Nick Foles.

Eli won SB's Rivers none. Eli deserves it Rivers if he gets in Its a sham. Rivers only deserves HOF of crybaby whiners.

I agree 100%, but then again, I hate QBs not named Mahomes or Dawson. As mentioned in a previous post, yards and TDs that come in garbage time are just that - garbage. What did the guy do for his team? Rivers choked way too many times and Eli seldom had to put the team on his back.

Eli was NEVER one of the best QB during his time in the league.

Not even top 10.

****ing reeruned he can ride the backs of his superbowl defense and somehow eventually will get inducted into Canton, at least most people believe he will.

Not deserving at all......same with Rivers. Rivers was a choke artist. You can't be a chokeartist and be in the HoF, man.

This is my issue. Eli was pretty average throughout a great deal of his career. Outside of durability (he did have a great Iron Man run) and a couple hot postseason runs (that I am so, so thankful for), he's just blah. It's tough to remember each individual season going so far back, but I think you're right. He was probably not even top 10 for the vast majority of his tenure.

Rivers, on the other hand, was definitely top 5 pretty frequently and generally at least top 8. He was a very good QB for quite a while, but the lack of postseason success really kills him. And I really hate to judge QBs by team accolades, but at some point I kind of feel like, if you truly are that great, you would have won something of significance at some point in a 15+ year career.

And let's not forget the bitch move Eli pulled for them to get them where they ended up in the first place

My rule is simple. If we need to debate it, that player is not deserving of induction. Neither player (nor Frank Gore) should be inducted. The longer this thread goes, the more correct is the theory.

Conversely, if someone started a thread asking if Drew Brees was HOF worthy, the discussion wouldn't last long.

I've never thought of Rivers as top 5. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger were all better than him IMO. There was always some other QB you could throw into the mix as well during that time.

Rivers kind of reminds me of Romo

That's an interesting comparison, but I agree that your last sentence tells the story. Rivers did it in an era when Manning*, Brees, and that patriot guy* were far above him. No one was above Marino in his era.



* - Some cheating involved.

Yep. And while I wouldn't vote for either of them, I'd vote for Rivers easily over Manning because Rivers played for a team that Manning was afraid to go to. Rivers manned up when Manning ran crying to his daddy.

Dane, even you could have run for north of 1,000 yards and 15 TDs behind that Chiefs OL. It was perhaps the best OL ever assembled.

A Smith or Sanders would have gone for 2500 yards on the ground and likely even more TDs.

I'd rather have Romo than Rivers.

Yeah, looking back at the stats, you're probably right. He wasn't often top 5, though there were maybe three or four seasons in which I'd argue he was. Generally, top 8 would be a better billing for him.

But the rules during Rivers career were favoring the offense pretty heavily comparative to Marinos time, and I think that hurts Rivers more so than people realize. There was a reason why Rivers bitched every time a play didn't go his way, I don't remember seeing Marino cry that much during his career to get calls to go his way.

In terms of Hall of Fame status I would say that Eli deserves to get in on his Super Bowls and Playoff record alone, and will likely get in, however with Rivers I think he should have to wait awhile. He's close enough to Marino to warrant him getting in eventually, and they'll shove him in first ballot and say he's the next Dan Marino, but Phillip Rivers isn't Dan Marino, imo he should have to wait for a ballot or two to pass before he gets in.

They'll desperately try to play off Rivers, Eli and Big Ben's year as the closest to 1983 that you can get, and that is technically true as it hasn't been seen since that time, but I'll take John, Jim and Dan over Eli, Ben and Phillip any day of the week.

I don't think Rivers was good enough to overcome his lack of playoff success. King of the wild card round and not much else...whoop de doo. If eli gets in, frank clark and sammy watkins should also get in.

I'd put Drew Bledsoe into the HOF before Phyllis... which is more of an indictment of Phyllis' candidacy.

At least Bledsoe had some postseason success... leading the Faketriots to the Super Bowl under Parcells.

The only way Rivers gets in is if his luck changes. Dude must have been born under a ladder in a room full of broken mirrors and black cats. Nobody could find ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory quite like the Phyllis-led Chargers. All the talented teams he was on and they couldn't win shit.

That victory formation fumble against us kind of sums up his career.

Although I don't believe either player should be inducted, I have no doubt both will be inducted. Frank Gore will get in as well.

Does anyone not see Rivers and Manning both getting in?

He retired in the offseason, so the only way his luck is changing is that he'll likely never choke away a game again. But it's still possible that he'll be on the sidelines as a guest and will accidentally trip a Charger who's running for a winning touchdown.

LMAO

He's the football version of Bad Luck Schleprock.

He's a high school football HC now so he has new ways of choking, both as a coach and teaching a new generation of future chokers.

James William Plunkett (born December 5, 1947) is a former American football quarterback who played in the National Football League (NFL) for sixteen seasons. ... He is the only eligible quarterback with two Super Bowl wins as a starter not to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The Raiders were the first team to ever win the SB as a wildcard team. Jim Plunkett started that season as the backup.

Eli is the definition of championship clutch. Not sure I really have a problem with that.

Rivers is a compiler. Stats are stats. Dude doesn't belong in the HoF.

Plunket threw for only 25,000 yards, 164 TD's versus 198 INT's with a completion percentage of 52.5, which is dreadful, with an overall starting record of 72-72.

Plunkett isn't in the NFL HoF because he does not deserve Hall of Fame status.

He's like the Trent Dilfer of Super Bowl QB's.

Are they official candidates? Hadn't heard that...

I'd say the likelihood a guy who won Superbowls in New York and is named Manning has a good chance....

Rivers accomplished some things most guys don't, sure. Wouldn't he be the only QB to never appear in a SB in the hall? Don't know if he's got as much chance, unless of course his children are voting.

Every former NFL player is eligible for the Hall of Fame five years after they've retired, so neither is on the 2021 ballot

Wonder how many SB's Rivers could have won with the NYG and some of those good defenses and players?

For some reason I don't have much problem with Rivers going in, but shudder at the thought of Matt Ryan going in. No clue why. Especially given that if Rivers was on Atlanta, they never would have made it to that one super bowl. Guess I need to reconsider.

Zero because he would have negated that with an untimely interception.

Also don’t forget that the Chargers had one of the most talented rosters in the NFL during the first 5-6 years of his career as a starting QB.

He played on several Chargers teams with Super Bowl talent on both sides. They just always choked.

Rivers was literally so addicted to F-ing up games that he fumbled the snap on a kneel down.

Well, we are in the era of great stats and longevity = HOF

Eli won 2 rings and had a fairly solid career... not shocked at all and yes, he will get into the HOF. #8 career passing yards / #9 career TDs

Fun oddity, 117/117 record.

Rivers... yeah, no way to really defend it. Ranks higher than Eli on some stats rankings. And, has actually won more games with a 134-106 record and played 1 more season.

Matt Ryan definitely gets in as well... same with Stafford, bank on it.

Empty stats are just that, empty stats. The way I look at the QB position is like this. When the game is on the line, can he put the team on his back and win? Not just once or twice, but week in and week out. Rivers -- biggest choker in the NFL. Eli --the D won those SBs, he just put enough points on the board. Ryan -- bitch, please. Stafford -- maybe someday. Guys like Dawson, Montana, Unitas, Aikman, and Farve (just to name a few) are true HoFers.

The HOF is a pile of shit. It's a mandated 5 players in every year TV show and a game for money. That's it. There are not players worthy every year so they just let mother ****ers in on unworthy creds constantly. Terrell Davis maybe the worst. He had a great like 2 years and that's it and he stopped playing. How the hell does that stack up to other greats that played 5 times as long?

It doesn't and it's bullshit.

My problem with Rivers isn't stats. How many times did he even win his own division? Almost never and there wasn't even a stud QB in it stopping him for many years.

Eli Manning Record is 117-117.......... He is a .500 QB that happened to win two Super Bowls.

Wtf are we even entertaining this for? Those two rings have more to do with his defense (esp in fist SB) than him. For christ sakes he threw up a prayer to win the first one.

There is nothing HoF about Eli Manning, if you are saying he deserves to go into HoF because of 4-ish plays in two different SB's you duuuumb.

He threw for a grand total of 500 yards and 3TDs in two SB's.....

He's got better stats in Super Bowls than Mahomie

And this ladies and gentlemen is why context matters

The longevity is indeed a key factor.

The rules are set up now so quarterbacks seldom get hit, and the market is set up so they make massive amounts of money. As a result, quarterbacks have no real incentive to retire. They play forever, never get hurt, and pile up stats in an era that's specifically tailored for them to pile up stats. Over the next decade, we may see a number of mediocre quarterbacks pile up 60,000 career passing yards. Rivers is the first of those, and "The Other Manning" was a season away.

The only thing that can keep a quarterback from compiling lots of stats these days is if he gets beat out by a younger quarterback.