Is that so? I never found out what Finns secret was.

Going a diff direction, my 7&9 year old boys loved it. They knew all the characters and loved seeing them come on screen. These movies aren’t made for dads they’re made for their kids. Lucas aptly said re: criticisms of Jar Jar: “These are kids movies”. And he’s right.

Personally I liked Palpatine’s role in the movie. Why does it matter if his granddaughter was hidden? Why is that impossible? Luke and Leia were hidden. Since I read no spoilers I had no clue that was her heritage

It's not believable within the context of the larger story.

Anakin didn't know his children had survived Padme's death. I can believe that.

If they had provided some kind of explanation for:

1. Why grandpa Palps was clappin' cheeks (really ****ing stupid)
2. How the most powerful being in the galaxy managed to lose track of his only son.
3. How he ALSO managed to lose track of his incredibly powerful force sensitive granddaughter.

I maybe could have bought it.

But they didn't even try to explain shit.

It's not believable whatsoever. It's lazy storytelling because Snoke got kilt. As is making Rey ABSURDLY powerful. More powerful than ANY Jedi we've ever seen before.

If the Jedi Masters on the old council had her powers, Palpatine would have been ****ed.

Stupid, lazy, hamfisted Jar Jar Abrams storytelling.

Supposedly according to Abrams.

https://fandomwire.com/2019/12/24/fi...lker-revealed/

Which just seems...wierd. Just doesn't feel like something you say to someone right before you think you're going to die.

He didn’t know where “Obi-Ben” was hiding out? He knew Ben didn’t die so why wasn’t he able to locate him. And he was just down the street from his own son. Isn’t that as big a plot hole ?

I assumed the son was a test tube baby. His Jango Fett

Same way Anakin did

What explanation suffices? If they told you daddy was a test tube baby does that make this plot better ?

Seems Yoda was the most powerful given how long he lived and how many he trained and his infinity-somersault saber powers. (May the prequels be damned forever)

Problem is we know nothing about Palpatine from episode 6 to episode 9. Did he die when he fell down the shaft & was somehow resurrected or did he just become very weak? If he died it would seem being dead he would have a hard time keeping track of his son. Rey would have been born about 10 years after he died so the fact that he even had a force sensitive granddaughter would not be something he would automatically know about.

Even if he survived in a weak state he lost all his resources so it doesn't seem difficult to see how his son could have escaped a weak Palpatine recovering form injuries without legions of storm troopers at his disposal. Again once Palps lost track of him the fact that he had a daughter would not necessarily be known to him.

I also don't find it hard to believe a guy who was the emperor of the entire known galaxy had a harem of women or that he may have attempted to create an heir in some way.

No. Tatooine is on the outer rim, far from where Vader was hanging out, and Anakin hated Tatooine. It's where his mother died. It's not surprising he would never go there ever again. Ben chose his hiding place wisely. As did Yoda. Tatooine is basically sand Dagobah.

That is believable.

Makes it even more implausible he'd lose track of him. Not buying it.

This is possible IF you explain something, but it still isn't believable. I can believe Anakin getting it on. I CAN'T believe the Emperor doing it.

No. There has to be a believable setup explaining how things came to be. When the prequels do a better job of that shit, your movie has a problem.

Uh, Palpatine's son was born before BEFORE Return of the Jedi.

So, at the height of the Emperor's powers, not only was he HAVING SEX, he had a son, and somehow this kid got away? And also had his own offspring?

The whole thing isn't believable to begin with, and with zero explanation, it's even less believable.

I understand that, say he had Rey when he was 20, he would have been 10 during RotJ, he could easily have slipped away during the craziness going on with the fall of the empire & Palpatine wouldn't have had the strength or the resources to track him at that point. If he was even alive. We don't know at what point he came back or gained enough strength to bother attempting to find his son and any children they may have had.

I'm not suggesting he lost his son at the height of his power, just the opposite. I'm suggesting he could have lost him at the low point of his power after Vader threw him down the shaft & he lost control of the armies of troops at his disposal. And again I'm not sure why the Emperor wouldn't want to have sex, but if you think it's unbelievable that the most powerful person in the galaxy would want to have sex I don't know what to say other than I disagree.

You're right though, the issue is they didn't bother to explain any of it. A reasonable explanation could be made, they just didn't. I understand they were already trying to cram too much into the movie as is in order to attempt to salvage a story out of where TLJ left them. But even a note in the opening crawl explaining Palpatines basic backstory could have helped a lot

Since Palpatine was resurrected, who resurrected him? If he did it himself why doesn’t he just do again now?

You're starting to get it.

Flimsy ass setup with zero logical exposition.

Bad film-making. Bad story-telling.

You don't understand the character of the Emperor if you think this is plausible.

It's like saying "when did Voldemort get it on?"

Uh, probably didn't, bub. More important, evil things to be doing.

Also, the actor playing Palpatine's son is 30. So him being 20 when Palpatine dies doesn't jive.

It's not believable at all to me that after Palpatine died his son wouldn't throw in with the remnants of the Empire and raise the granddaughter of Palpatine to serve the bad guys.

Also, WHO THE **** DID PALPATINE BONE? WHERE THE **** WAS SHE?

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-pal...er-birth-when/

In the end, I've seen more believable plotlines in utter trash films like...I dunno...****ing WILLOW.

This movie dragged Star Wars down into mindless popcorn fare. Palpatine was reduced to a goddamn Power Rangers villain.

Christmas Day box office with $32 million, the second-best showing of all time for Dec. 25 behind Star Wars: The Force Awakens ($49.3 million).

About a 40% dip. RJ ****ed this up big time.

Would it make you angry if they made another trilogy where Palpatine just kept coming back over and over, like Freddy Krueger?

You lied in the “will you see this in the theater?” Poll thread. You voted no.


Why did you lie?

I mean, yes, but I'd still give them my money.

At this point it's about to become the sci-fi version of the Halloween franchise.

I wish they had just let the Marvel people do all of the Star Wars, too.

Favreau has ****ing NAILED the Mando.

Aww. Look at you. Hanging off of my dick like a drop of urine. Not a good look for you, Peanut Butter.

Finally saw this last night. Overall mixed obviously. Some random first thoughts below:

Overall I could just about deal with Palpatine but think they could’ve done it a lot better - like he could maybe have been a Sauron/Voldemort spirit and needed Rey and Ren’s power to restore him. I guess that’s been done in LOTR and HP so maybe thought it was too obvious

I could deal with Rey being a palpatine but they should have figured that out from the start. She was a Skywalker in TFA, nobody in TLJ and the Palpatine in TROS. Also like everyone says above, the emperor never banged anyone so maybe she should’ve been a niece or something

Some seriously bad acting at times. Finn and Poe together are awful. In general I don’t like Poe - trying to be Han but not fit to tie his cleats

Finn was a waste of time and should have died in the last one

There was no real character development for Rey. They should’ve figured out if she was untrained and not ready, or nearly trained and needed a final mission to finish, or just a fully trained badass ready for emperor lightning skills/yoda jumping. She lost to Ren quite easily, leia saved her. They should’ve done a lot more with her resisting the dark side.

I didn’t mind Ren/Ben in this one. The thing with Han was pretty well done.

People dying/ coming back was stupid shit. Chewy dead for one minute was pointless

Lando was disappointing and creepy at the end

Everyone turning up in battle craft was too random and unnecessary

C3PO’s memory should’ve stayed wiped or gone back in with R2’s attitude added

Dark side Rey should’ve been seen more

The power ranger woman was pointless as were all the othe new characters that they’ve just put in for spin off movies

Overall it felt like Disney just wanted the original saga over with so they can get on with milking new stories. I think Han and Leia came out of these 3 films unscathed but Luke was messed with a bit too much. His ending in TLJ was ok for me though.

I think the film was a bit too ‘glossy’ I liked some of the stuff in TFA that abrams did which had a grittier feel. Although there were some nice shots in this one - the rolling scene in the star destroyer with Poe and Finn was excellent, if only it was with someone other than the worst 2 characters in the film

6/10

Yeah but why did you lie?

Agreed. That is "Star Wars". Mando is the best "Star Wars" universe thing since Rogue One.

Palpatine was resurrected by The Sith followers.

Rey’s powers can be easily explained:

1. She was the Last Jedi. The shroud of the Dark Side no longer existed in the known galaxy as Palpatine was far, far away in the Unknown Regions and not fully regenerated.

2. She studied the actual Journal of the Whills, which were previously in Luke’s possession and found resting in the first Jedi Temple.

3. We have no proof that every other Jedi actually studied the Journal and it’s clear that much of the information was lost and/or not taught to the previous Jedi.

4. Kylo Ren and Rey were a Force Dyad, meaning that any power that she had, he had as well (e.g., the Force healing).

Force healers were well known in the Legends EU, so it wasn’t a surprise to see on screen.

Nah. When Sidious was talking to Anakin about creating life and cheating death with the Midichlorians and Plagueis endless years of research into it and being the only one to even come close, I can't buy that there was a book that Rey read and figured it out.

So Palpatine’s sith followers were all blown up in the arena along with him, therefore there are none left now to “Freddy Kruger” him ad infinitum?

Her explanation is way too simplistic as well. "I take my life force and transfer it to another being." Well shit, if it's that easy why wasn't it discovered by accident. No one ever just tried to do that?

Sure seems that way. The entire arena collapsed on them all as well.

This is very helpful. I read about 9 diff articles on this yesterday after the movie, and none of them made any sense. “Just because” isn’t an explanation. This should tie things up with Claynus but.....we know it won’t.

The Journal of the Whills is the basis for the entire Jedi Order so it makes sense that after 30,000 years, some aspects of The Force were forgotten or not taught without them.

Plus, Qui Gon discovered the secret of immortality and taught Yoda, who taught Obi Wan, who taught Luke and so on.

Sidious was never immortal, he was resurrected by Sith Black Magic, some of which we saw in The Clone Wars series with the Sith Witches of Dathomir, specifically Mother Talzin.

We have to read books and watch side tv shows to understand this movie?

Mother ****er.

You don't. It's a bunch of Jar Jar Abrams hand-waving bullshit.

Rey and Ren's dyad can regenerate zombie Palpatine? Why? Cus. Shut up and turn your brain off for fun over the top force unleashed bullshit.

I don’t know that it’s required but much of this film felt like EU Fan Service, which is something a loud segment of fans wanted, so JJ delivered.

Just like George, there is no way that JJ could please everyone so he chose to go the Fan Service route instead of pushing the story in a new direction like RJ.

The issue for me was everything was abrupt. At least with avengers it was essentially a two parter and explained. They missed that in the last jedi

I think they suffered from not pushing the release date back and hammering down the plot more so as it felt so rushed even tho an incredible amount happened.

My son crapped ALL over this movie the other day, which really surprised me, but he did say that The Mandalorian was outstanding

So I’ll be renting this on the cheap, and trying to find an “alternative” means to see Mandalorian

To be honest I’m sick of how they’re trashing the SW legacy, all the new ones sans Rogue One have been ****ing garbage IMO... and before someone jumps down my throat for that opinion, bear in mind I’m an ORIGINAL SW nerd

Watched the first run of New Hope at a drive-in theater and had ALL the toys... so I’m damn well entitled to my opinion :)

They had their chance to reunite Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie... and ****ing BLEW it

just pay the $6 for a month and watch the 8 episodes of the Mandalorian and then cancel. Well worth the $6. The Mandalorian rocks.

Enjoyed it at theater, enjoying it more as I reflect.

Boys: if I’m bullish on something (other than Mahomes obv), then you know it’s decent. I’m a harsh critic. The movie was fun and it was surprising and f***, I paid $15 to make me and my sons happy as clams.

Do you know how many times me and my wife have dropped $150-200 to leave Camarohead unhappy?

THIS would have been an ending.

https://scontent.fmkc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...b0&oe=5EA128B9

srsly

**** JJ

https://scontent.fmkc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...9c&oe=5EA2098C

I didn't. Figure it out.

You sound just like my son....he is THE Original Star Wars nerd and has pretty much trashed a lot of the SW movies since the original trilogy. He is a devoted follower of the canon and hates what Disney has done to the product. (Although he loves Clone Wars)

Me....I enjoy it for what it is. I don't try and follow the canon or try to read all the books to help me understand everything.

Now.....having said that I am really locked in on The Mandalorian!!:):clap:

It’s not a big deal, it’s en vogue for guys to rip the Star Wars movies. It’s “fash to bash” cause it makes you sound high brow or discerning...or soemthing. I get it.


Personally I liked the movie. My kids want to see it again so we will.

So anyone with a differing opinion than you are doing it to be en vogue? You need help.

No, you don't.

Rogue One was great. Solo was good. The Mandalorian is ****ing awesome.

The Force Awakens was good, the Last Jedi was good...

This was mediocre action schlock at best with some cheap jokes and nostalgia thrown in to not make it completely suck.

Well, turns out the wife wants to go see this, since she liked Mandalorian so much. So we're going tomorrow afternoon.

:grr:

she's going to be so disappointed

you moreso

I have really, really low expectations.

Deep six all expectations and just go in thinking that you're seeing a Star Wars movie. It's a mess, but there are a few legit good scenes in it.

If you really want to get picky and can't lower expectations, just mother**** RJ and KK as many times as needed until the splitting migraine goes away.

From everything I've read and heard it doesn't suck as much as the last one. At least that's a step in the right direction.

Maybe he had a bastard son he didn’t know about, until he planted a seed strong with the force.

it's dumber, that's for sure

oh yeah man, sounds like a completely plausible thing that would happen to the most powerful being in the galaxy

I didn’t think they were actual people when I watch it. I thought it was more like the souls of previous Sith.

If he’s so strong he wouldn’t have let someone pick him up and throw him over a ledge to “die” in the first place.

It's widely accepted that Palps was the most powerful force user of all time.

It would haven been Ani, but.. ya know.

Nah I think the crowd was a bunch of angry drunkards disillusioned with all the recent losses.


You know: Chiefs fans

Can any Star Wars nerd out there tell me if there was anything to one of those First Order officer grunts I forgot the name of who basically became the bigwig general on the main star destroyer? He said to the emperor something like, "I will serve you like I always have in the past." So is he some random ****ing callback character from the OT who was in one scene for 5 seconds that I'm supposed to care about?

No, new actor, new character.

A couple points:

1. All the people in the sith arena are all the dead sith. People weren't just sitting around. It was empty until Palpatine got into her dome.

2. There weren't that many people there. Those star destroyers didn't have massive crews like the originals did, and there were a few people there taking care of palpatine, but yeah, I get it, the people are a problem.

3. I don't have a problem with force healing. She was obviously reading the instructions - which a room full of men (Jedi council) would never do ROFL. And it makes sense that there wouldn't be a ton of study of the original documents when the Jedi got into galaxy managing. I mean hell, how much do current leaders read the Federalist papers or anything like that? Have any of you guys in business ever read the bylaws at work? I can buy it.

My thoughts about the movie:

It was pretty ham fisted and some aspects were certainly ridiculous, but let's be real here, a lot of the originals, especially ANH were goddamned ridiculous. There is as lot of stuff that doesn't work for me, but quite a bit does. Just like TLJ, I think it's a lot better than people give it credit for.

IMO everything went to shit when JJ remade ANH with TFA, lockstep. If you remember, there was a lot of pushback on that, becuase, "cut the shit, that's just ANH." So then they thought they had to go a different way with TLJ, which, IMO (and virtually no one elses), really worked for me. They tried all the shit that Star Wars has been and it failed, so they needed to go a different way - which makes sense given the pushback to TFA. But everybody hated that so they had to change course AGAIN to make this one. Anyone that has paid attention in the last decade or so has known that chasing social media fickleness is an exercise in futility.

I like TLJ a lot better than than ROS and I wish they wouldn't have went out of their way to retcon a lot of this stuff, but the whole trilogy is pretty much a visionless mess.

I have no problem with anything having to do with Fisher. It was noticable, but that's just a tough spot. No problem on my end.

I didn't really have a ton of trouble with the aspects of the movie other than Palpatine. I wish they would have done something different. Hell, the Snoke that was cut in half being an Astral projection would have been better. I think the movie suffers from the same problem the Nolan Batman trilogy did. At that point in the story there had to be a BIG bad, and it just didn't really fit in the story. Nolan made it work better than JJ did, but more a more coherent plan should have been made up front.

I really liked the Ben arc, them erasing the scar on his face after Rey dusted his ass and brought him back was a really good touch. I didn't really like Driver much at all up to this point, but I think this movie did the most with his character and generally made the most sense.

I didn't hate the Fin and Poe arcs as much as most, even if they were rushed. I think that was eventually Poe's story, which Rian Johnson kind of ****ed up, but Leia had to smack him around some to learn how to lead. Fin is the Han Solo type, where he's a guy that gets things done, but not a general or anything.

I like the burying of the skywalker sabers in the sand. I understand that is getting panned in a lot of places, but I liked it. It kind of beat you over the head that we're putting this story to bed, but it might have been kind of necessary given how much they bring everyone back. I haven't done any looking into what the yellow sabet means, but I'm thinking it means a balanced approach, not light only or dark only, but a balance that the original Jedi stuff used to talk about. That would put an end to the light/dark battle, and allow the studio to go different directions with future properties.

This is a pretty good watch.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RepMk502FTI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Apparently the Lucas Film Story group, which keeps track of all the shit Star Wars is and is not was used in this film, which explains a bunch of **** ups.

Given what this dude says it seems ham fisted because they ham fisted the shit out of it. Which makes me wonder, WTF they were doing pushing it out that hard if you can't even bring in the Lucas Film Story group? Seems like real bad decision making on the studio part, but maybe they were just thinking that it was going to get destroyed on Social Media because people are so emotionally vested in the original storyline that they weren't going to be happy with anything, so they just said **** it put it out.

All in all, I think it was OK, not paradigm changing but certainly not a bad film, or the worst thing ever, which a lot of people are putting out. I think it is really easy in the era of Social Media to sensationalize EVERYTHING. So there is no way that anyone that requires likes to make money will say, "it had problems but I had a good time." So it's easy to get bombarded by negativity by social media personalities trying to one up their sensationalized hate and let that skew our judgement.

The whole concept of all the Sith in Palpatine and all the Jedi in Rey is flawed. Sith don't help other Sith by nature. They were always at each other's throats and teamed up to further their own goals. So the only way those entities in the stands were Sith is if Palpatine subjugated them to power himself up. And they wouldn't be chanting and dancing either.

On to the Jedi. Jedi are taught to have little to no attachments to others. They have to keep their emotions in check. No favoritism or partiality and yet all these previous Jedi go to Rey from where? Where have they been this whole time? If you can call on all previous Jedi for help then how do any Jedi lose? It's asinine tbh.

Hamfisted hand-waving from Jar Jar Abrams, for sure.

I think it’s more so that the sith/Jedi are both dying breeds. According to these movies(and I could be wrong), Rey, Kyle/Ben, and Palpatine were the last ones left. I think that’s why all the former Jedi were in Reys corner, because she’s all that was left.

And it’s a kids(Disney) movie.

I'll go ahead and assume the spirit of Darth Bane was not in attendance in the Sith grandstand. Lol

The take I was hoping they’d take is that the Sith always survive into a new body and that’s the reason there are two. When the time comes the second Sith serves as a body for their master which is a single entity that takes different bodies/entities thru time. The whole legacy approach is very Dark Empire but I always liked it. Made no sense why the Emperor was actually there in Darth Sidious form.

Well shit, I actually really enjoyed it. Far better than I expected; it was better than Force Awakens, and exponentially better than the abortion that was Last Jedi. Sure, it was lame and silly in parts, and inconsistent with the earlier movies, but that's to be expected.

And mainly there were no heavy-handed, offensive political overtones in this one.

"it was lame and silly in parts"

"i enjoyed it"

"that's to be expected"

i ****ing hate jar jar abrams

Like I said, I had low expectations.

And I'm no far of Jar Jar either; he's done irreparable damage to both Star Trek and Star Wars. But compared to Rian Johnson, he's David Lean.

i know TLJ wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but for me, at least it was original

i respect that a lot more than ANYTHING JJ has EVER done

Rian is a much better filmmaker - his past work proves this too

blame KK for the stuff you didn't like

I'm told David Lynch has made some good movies, too. But he also made Dune, so I don't give a **** what else he did.

Last Jedi was the Dune of Star Wars.

See, I like Dune. LMAO

I just can't respect anything JJ did. At least Rian tried to make it interesting.

Total hogwash trilogy at the end though. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

You don't see Nolan doing shit like this. Why? He's the one in charge of everything.

Saw it earlier tonight. Man, what a shitty mess. So much potential, but nothing more than a dumbed down and watered down marketing campaign for mass appeal. So many issues that create a shit stain on lots of prior movie plots and canon. At least Chewie finally got his medal.

If not for the Mandalorian, I'd be done with Star Wars. How can that series be so right, when the last two movies have felt so completely wrong? Bleh....

Also... does this mean Ahsoka Tano is dead? I got all excited when I saw a character credited for doing an Ahsoka Tano voice in IX before I watched the movie. I thought I caught a spoiler and there would be a live action Ahsoka character. But she was just a force voice used when Rey was hearing all the Jedi team quotes. Discussion that it means she actually died in her fight against Vader in Rebels....

Ahsoka and Sabine went searching for Ezra and Thrawn in the closing moments of the final episode of Rebels.

And according to Dave Filoni, Ahsoka is not dead, even though her voice is heard in RoS.

Nearly every Emperor (and many Popes) had bastard children and many world leaders throughout time have had love affairs that spawned children.

It stands to reason that the most powerful man in the galaxy, the creator of an Empire and the living Emperor, would have concubines far and wide, many of which would result in child birth.

Simple logic.

Sorry, I just don't find it believable.

Palpatine was busy ruling an Empire and doing Sith shit, not ****ing.

This isn't Game of Thrones.

Yeah, it just doesn't really make much sense that the Emperor would have been off getting poontang on the side. It's just lazy writing.

Please correct me in case I'm misunderstanding you:

The Force, Force Ghosts, engineering that allows spaceships to traverse a galaxy at or beyond lightspeed without any loss of time or matter along with the mechanical know-how to not only design one type of "Planet-Destroying" weapon but multiple planet destroying weapons?

Believable

The most powerful man in the galaxy having concubines and numerous bastard children throughout said galaxy, like ALL powerful men throughout history, including those living today?

Not Believable

Is that correct?

It's not that by itself it wouldn't be believable. It just goes against everything we've ever seen regarding the Emperor and Sith in general. They're not the family type...

In the established context of the Star Wars galaxy, yes, Palpatine ****ing and also losing track of his offspring...doesn't sound believable to me.

At all.

At the very least, he'd just kill them. His son apparently didn't even have force powers? Even more unbelievable. :LOL:

Maybe not in the movies but in the Clone Wars series, the Sith were definitely family. Mother Talzin, a Sith Witch, helped to heal Darth Maul's mind and created his new legs using Sith Black Magic.

She also imbibed Maul's brother Savage Oppress (dumbest name in the Star Wars Universe, for my money, anyway), with Sith powers.

While I understand that there are several concepts introduced in this film that at first mention or first thought don't make sense or don't have a foundation in the movies, the foundation does exist in other Star Wars media that has been made Canon since George sold it to Disney.

As I mentioned earlier, there have been calls for Lucasfilm to include the EU or at least aspects of the EU and for whatever reason, Abrams and Terrio listened to those voices and made them a part of this film.

Now, that doesn't mean that anyone has to like it, of course, but many of the complaints are based in the EU, even RJ's Force Astral Projection Luke was a Jedi power that appeared in the old EU.