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-   -   Chiefs Looks like Spagnuolo [favorite for] DC (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320843)

BigRedChief 01-24-2019 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaa1025 (Post 14068647)
1) I'd rather have Spags over Sutton
2) I'd rather have Spags over an In House hire due to me wanting to completely clean house on defense.
3) Spags is probably my least favorite candidate out there of the names people have discussed.

His DC coaching history in terms of DVOA (Much better than total defense or points againt IMO) he wasn't as bad IMO, if you take some things into consideration.

Defensive DVOA

Giants
2006 13th DVOA 15th pass, 11th rush (Pre Spags)
2007 13th DVOA 14th Pass, 9th Rush (SB Dominance)
2008 8th DVOA 10th Pass, 12th Rush

Rams (HC) Took over a bad team, remained bad but did improve on defense.
2009 31st DVOA 29th Pass, 31st Rush 1-15 record
2010 19th DVOA, 19th Pass, 20th Rush 7-9 record
2011 21st DVOA, 14th Pass, 27th Rush 2-14 record (Horrid offense)

Saints bad defense when he took over, Bounty Gate Greg Williams fired/Payton Suspended
2011 28th DVOA, 26th Pass, 21st Rush (Pre Spags)
2012 32nd DVOA, 28th Pass, 30th Rush (Bounty Gate Scandal)

NYG
2014 24th DVOA, 21st Pass, 27th Rush (Pre-Spags)
2015 30th DVOA, 28th Pass, 21st Rush
2016 2nd DVOA, 4th Pass, 2nd Rush
2017 24th DVOA, 19th Pass, 26th Rush (tons of team turmoil under McAdoo)

I feel a little better breaking it down but still not high at all. If he can assemble a good staff and they give him some bodies on defense, I think it could work.
I'd rather have fence post over Sutton. So Spags is an upgrade.

RunKC 01-24-2019 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 14068816)
No kidding. If you have one or two great tacklers on your defense nowadays, you're probably a top 15 defense for that alone.
One thing I will give credit to Spags for is he has delivered when he has actual talent on his team.

Everybody loves Wade Phillips, but his defenses were very meh last year and his last season in Denver when he didn’t have an over abundance of talent.

If we can get a solid ILB and add to the secondary, we should be able to be roughly average on defense.

I still contend that coaching made this defense far worse than it actually was.

El Jefe 01-24-2019 09:44 AM
[QUOTE=RunKC;14068862]One thing I will give credit to Spags for is he has delivered when he has actual talent on his team.

Everybody loves Wade Phillips, but his defenses were very meh last year and his last season in Denver when he didn’t have an over abundance of talent.

If we can get a solid ILB and add to the secondary, we should be able to be roughly average on defense.

I still contend that coaching made this defense far worse than it actually was.[/QUOTE]


I agree completely.

Chris Meck 01-24-2019 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 14068862)
One thing I will give credit to Spags for is he has delivered when he has actual talent on his team.

Everybody loves Wade Phillips, but his defenses were very meh last year and his last season in Denver when he didn’t have an over abundance of talent.

If we can get a solid ILB and add to the secondary, we should be able to be roughly average on defense.

I still contend that coaching made this defense far worse than it actually was.
I've made similar points. Also-everyone wants to just quote average stats without looking at circumstances.

For instance, at each stop, Spagnuolo arrives to varying levels of disarray, which you can see by looking at the previous year's statistics. Each time, he builds a solid defense that performs much better, usually within a year.

the outliers being St. Louis, in which I wouldn't claim he did a great job, although he was head coach, and 2012 Saints, which was a uniquely weird and screwed up situation.

so there are some poor seasons, but there is also a tendency towards rebuilding not great defenses into pretty good ones, and very quickly.

So, if he's the hire, I think there's reason for optimism. This idea that he's just a Reid buddy is lazy and not a reasonable conclusion when you consider all of the facts.

While I'd love an up and comer like Richard or Hewitt, I DO prefer ditching the 3-4 for personnel reasons and I understand that with Reid's style he might prefer someone with full DC experience as he spends almost all of his time on the offense.

Naptown Chief 01-24-2019 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 14068862)
One thing I will give credit to Spags for is he has delivered when he has actual talent on his team.

Everybody loves Wade Phillips, but his defenses were very meh last year and his last season in Denver when he didn’t have an over abundance of talent.

If we can get a solid ILB and add to the secondary, we should be able to be roughly average on defense.

I still contend that coaching made this defense far worse than it actually was.
I agree 100%. The foundation is there.

King_Chief_Fan 01-24-2019 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaa1025 (Post 14068647)
1) I'd rather have Spags over Sutton
2) I'd rather have Spags over an In House hire due to me wanting to completely clean house on defense.
3) Spags is probably my least favorite candidate out there of the names people have discussed.

His DC coaching history in terms of DVOA (Much better than total defense or points againt IMO) he wasn't as bad IMO, if you take some things into consideration.

Defensive DVOA

Giants
2006 13th DVOA 15th pass, 11th rush (Pre Spags)
2007 13th DVOA 14th Pass, 9th Rush (SB Dominance)
2008 8th DVOA 10th Pass, 12th Rush

Rams (HC) Took over a bad team, remained bad but did improve on defense.
2009 31st DVOA 29th Pass, 31st Rush 1-15 record
2010 19th DVOA, 19th Pass, 20th Rush 7-9 record
2011 21st DVOA, 14th Pass, 27th Rush 2-14 record (Horrid offense)

Saints bad defense when he took over, Bounty Gate Greg Williams fired/Payton Suspended
2011 28th DVOA, 26th Pass, 21st Rush (Pre Spags)
2012 32nd DVOA, 28th Pass, 30th Rush (Bounty Gate Scandal)

NYG
2014 24th DVOA, 21st Pass, 27th Rush (Pre-Spags)
2015 30th DVOA, 28th Pass, 21st Rush
2016 2nd DVOA, 4th Pass, 2nd Rush
2017 24th DVOA, 19th Pass, 26th Rush (tons of team turmoil under McAdoo)

I feel a little better breaking it down but still not high at all. If he can assemble a good staff and they give him some bodies on defense, I think it could work.
Anything is better than Sutton. However, these stats do not excite me and do not give me that much hope if Spags is the DC.
However, we know that he is Andy's buddy and for that reason alone makes me think that Andy wants him.
Remember Sutton was Andy's pal too.

chiefzilla1501 01-24-2019 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan (Post 14069020)
Anything is better than Sutton. However, these stats do not excite me and do not give me that much hope if Spags is the DC.
However, we know that he is Andy's buddy and for that reason alone makes me think that Andy wants him.
Remember Sutton was Andy's pal too.
I don't think Sutton was Andy's pal. From what I remember, it was a strong rec from his pal Gruden. And I can't blame him for the hire. Sutton was a decent hire, they just kept him a few years too long. The overall Ryan scheme hasn't adapted well to the new modern offense but at the time it was a good scheme to use. And to Suttons credit, we did adapt the defense in many ways. We drafted guys like Jones and Ford to add speed to the line and off the edges.

staylor26 01-24-2019 10:39 AM
When we hired Sutton, it was clear that the scheme/coaching was an improvement from day 1 (Jags game)

I fully expect the same thing to happen again, but I don’t think our D will be as good.

The Franchise 01-24-2019 10:42 AM
I have this feeling that it's going to be Spags or Mike Smith.

Bowser 01-24-2019 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 14069071)
I have this feeling that it's going to be Spags or Mike Smith.
If those are the two choices, I'm going with Spags. I base that on nothing else than how Andy devotes his time to Mahomes when the defense is on the field, and Spags has been a HC and can effectively manage the defense without Andy standing over his shoulder.

FAX 01-24-2019 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 14069057)
When we hired Sutton, it was clear that the scheme/coaching was an improvement from day 1 (Jags game)

I fully expect the same thing to happen again, but I don’t think our D will be as good.
That year, our defense featured (all guys in their prime) DJ, Hali, Houston, Poe, Hoboy, Flowers, Abdullah, Smith, Etc., Etc.

Just a reminder.

FAX

Sassy Squatch 01-24-2019 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 14069071)
I have this feeling that it's going to be Spags or Mike Smith.
Tuberculosis or AIDS. Yay.

staylor26 01-24-2019 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 14069089)
That year, our defense featured (all guys in their prime) DJ, Hali, Houston, Poe, Hoboy, Flowers, Abdullah, Smith, Etc., Etc.

Just a reminder.

FAX
No doubt. That’s why I don’t think the D will be as good despite a clear upgrade in coaching/scheme just like then.

Bowser 01-24-2019 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 14069100)
No doubt. That’s why I don’t think the D will be as good despite a clear upgrade in coaching/scheme just like then.
Lots of variables outside of just who is coaching them. Changing or not changing schemes is the obvious one.

And seriously, give me a coordinator that isn't too cocky/lazy to adjust the scheme midway through a game. That would be amazing at this point.

The Franchise 01-24-2019 10:57 AM
Scheme isn't going to matter unless the new DC can get these ****s to tackle and actually do the job that each is assigned.


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