DT Thread
 

This is a pretty solid DT class with some talent we could use.

Jer’Zhan Newton
Byron Murphy
T'Vondre Sweat
Maason Smith
Kris Jenkins
Michael Hall Jr
Leonard Taylor
Brandon Fiske
Darius Robinson

Which ones do you think fit us most?

I haven't paid alot of attention to them, but other than Newton, most of them seem very "squatty" run stopper types?

Newton and Murphy are both on my short list for 31/32.

Assuming Jones is about to play his last game a Chief, one of those 2 to go with a WR in the 2nd feels ideal.

I'm going to scream from the mountaintops that Newton isn't going to be anywhere near where we pick, Dane Brugler's thoughts be damned. That kid, to me, is going top 15.

Now Murphy I think is there. I don't know if I feel like any DT outside of Newton is truly worth a 1, but I wouldn't scoff at Murphy there if that's what Veach decides to do.

If I had to pick another DT to go in the 1st, I'd have Sweat over any not named Newton, honestly. That said, not sure that Spags would opt for a 360 lb NT.

I had Taylor there but I really fell off after revisiting him and his 2023 performance. So much so that I'm not sure if I have him in round 2.

I'm really high on Ruke Orhororo. I think he's the real deal. I worry that he, much like my guy last year Benton, is going to go in the 40's and we won't sniff him. But can I root for him to go in 1? I struggled with putting Benton there last year and I just don't know that I can put Ruke there either.

The guy I'm most curious to see a weight on at the combine is Kris Jenkins. I like him alot if he comes in at 300 pounds. I like him alot less if he comes in at 280. Kind of a similar thing to Darius Robinson.


I think some guys getting slept on are McKinnley Jackson, Gabe Hall, and DeWayne Carter. Jackson is a really good-looking NT for this system. I like Hall's build and ability to get pressure. Carter is a guy I'd take a whole lot earlier than most. I'd grab him up in the 3rd for sure. He's productive and disruptive consistently over years. If you can get him later than that? Win. I think he's this year's Kobie Turner.

I like Jackson as an option, and Carter I'd absolutely have in the 3rd. I also like Khristian Boyd a little later as a pass rush specialist. What are your thoughts on him crow?

Boyd stood out at the Shrine game. He struggles with doubles but as a 1-gap penetrator that can make some plays, i'd like him on day 3. Maybe 4th or 5th.

Byron Murphy II has a 20% pass rush win rate.

Is there a world where Madubuike comes available? Probably slightly cheaper, younger than Chris Jones. He would wreck with Spags.

That was my thinking, glad we're seeing the same thing.

I doubt he's cheap enough to make it worth signing him here.

I wouldn't be opposed, but it's hard for me to be too high on a "NT" type earlier than the 4th with how cheap and easy those types are usually to find in FA>

Hell, Farrell has played well in that role.

Ultimately, yes I agree, but there are enough people that just aren't high on him at all to at least consider the possibility this early in the process.

But I do think Murphy is the guy more likely to be in our range.

Yes it's early but I've now seen multiple mocks including Daniel Jeremiah's that have Jer’Zhan Newton falling to the late 20's.

If that happens I pray to God Veach trades up for that mother****er. Don't care if we keep Chris Jones or not.

I want that mother****er badly

Newton is an ELITE pass-rushing prospect. His major failing is getting washed out in the run game. When he increases his strength and lowers his pad level in the pros, it will help him a lot there. He'll still lose length battles at times but he's as good a pass-rushing DT prospect as has come out in years. What matters most in today's NFL? We all give Chris Jones a pass for his shitty play against the run, and have for years. This guy averaged 6 sacks a year in college. I think I'll take the pass rush and worry about his run fits later. Put him in a 1-gap system like ours? Yeah, watch him feast.

man, other than Newton, I'm just not super excited about this class.

Ororhorhororhoroorroo is an interesting prospect, should he fall to the third or something, but I'm not spending a premium pick for a run stuffer DT when those guys are relatively inexpensive on the free agent market.

And it's okay to not have stud DT pass rushers. Most of the NFL doesn't. It's nice to have one, and if we could sign one for 1/3 of what Jones wants that gives us 1/2 of his production, you sign a run stuffer to play next to him and you call it a win.

I like Newton, Murphy, Robinson, and Sweat like others here. Later round guys like Gabe Hall and J. Jefferson from LSU. Not too enamored with this class either.

The more I look at the class the more I think we need to sort DT in FA. We're either working miracles to keep Jones or we're going after 2 guys a tier or 2 lower than him. Fine to get a R4-5 guy in this draft but man there's not much earlier than that that appeals to me

Plenty that appeal to me, but more in that 2nd and 3rd range than anything I'd even remotely consider in Round 1.

Jenkin's sounds interesting:

"He made the 2023 list of Bruce Feldman Freaks at #6 - he said: "Jenkins recently did a Turkish get-up with a 170-pound dumbbell — the heaviest Herbert has ever witnessed. Jenkins does pull-ups with a 100-pound weight strapped to his waist. He also moves incredibly well for being a 300-plus pounder, running a 7.16 3-cone, a 4.33 shuttle, broad-jumping 9-8 and vertical-jumping 34 inches. Jenkins’ shuttle and 3-cone times are both almost two-tenths of a second faster than the quickest interior defensive lineman did at this year’s NFL combine. His broad jump would be tied for the best. His vertical jump would be second-best, and only Smith topped his number on the bench press."

Dane Brugler's Top 100 Big Board DT Rankings (2/13):

1. Byron Murphy II (15 overall)
2. Jer'Zhan Newton (30 overall)
3. T'Vondre Sweat (33 overall)
4. Ruke Orhorhoro (52 overall)
5. Kris Jenkins (66 overall)
6. Michael Hall Jr. (79 overall)
7. Brandon Dorlus (83 overall)
8. Braden Fiske (90 overall)

Sign me up for some Sweat with Cullen and our group to help him with the maturity. If he falls deeper in the second that is.

With Jones back, Sweat next to him gives me a chub to be honest. I'd take Sweat in the 1st though.

Couldn't agree with you more! He was the first name that caught my attention and prompted me to start researching this year's draft. Shame Omenihu's injured, but assuming he came back healthy to play for the Chiefs how the hell would any team guard that front!? Karlaftis, Jones, Sweat, Omenihu! That's 3 guys that eat double teams for breakfast and 5 guys including FAU that can get after the QB!

I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up going in the 20's though, he had a 15.4% pass rush win ratio from the NT position at Texas! That's tied with Newton by the way who's 72 lbs lighter than Sweat.

That's probably a fairer assessment. I just think it's a better FA class rhan draft. If Jones goes we're never replacing him 1 for 1. But there's enough DL talent in FA to think we could rebuild DT and maybe bolster DE for an equivalent cost.

If we then brought in a guy R2-3 to drip feed in that'd be fine by me. What's interesting to me is how little Veach has cared about the position. Is that just because we've had Jones filling the role of 2 people? Or does he just see the position as one you can fill cheaply. Should find out this year. So far rhe approach has worked pretty damn well.

This guy is a monster.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There&#39;s only so much you can do to slow down 360+ pounds.<br><br>T&#39;Vondre Sweat is inevitable when he wants to be. <a href="https://t.co/oWTi3pvjUj">pic.twitter.com/oWTi3pvjUj</a></p>&mdash; Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) <a href="https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1752829155941462265?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Both of the UT defensive tackles should be on our radar. Those two and Newton are guys I'm awfully intrigued by.

Evan Anderson might be a guy in the 6th or 7th round worth considering.

Florida Atlantic, listed at 6-0 319 lbs on one site and 6-3 356 lbs on another?

Had 5 sacks and 11 tackles for a loss from the NT position last year.

83.7% run defense grade 72.4% true pass rush grade.

Would you take Sweat at 32 though?

Doesn't seem likely he'd be at the top of my board, no.

But he'd be on it at least.

Agreed. He should be on the list, but it's highly unlikely that there's not a WR or OT that I'd prefer over him.

I don't love the idea of taking a run-stuffing DT with limited pass-rush ability in round 1.

But Sweat is more than that. He is freakishly quick for a 365-pounder. At Texas, he had lots of TFLs, QB pressures, and batted balls. He's not a pass rusher, but he can absolutely be a game-wrecker.

There are immovable object NT types to be had in the later rounds, but I think Sweat has upside well beyond that.

Which is why he's still on my board for the 1st, but he's not a good enough pass rusher to put him over some of the WRs and OTs.

For me, Sweat would only fall behind these guys and we know most aren't falling to us:

WRs: Harrison, Nabers, Odunze, Franklin, Thomas Jr.
TEs: Bowers
OTs: Alt, Fashanu, Mims, Guyton, Suamataia
DTs: Newton, Murphy
CBs: Arnold, Mitchell, McKinstry, DeJean, Wiggins

So really, he's pretty much there in the conversation for me.

He could be a Vita Vea sort; a mountain in the middle that can also crush the pocket and provide some real problems in the passing game.

He's powerful and quick. He's absolutely a worthwhile consideration in the 1st and there's a non-zero chance he'd be the BPA when we get up. I wouldn't call it likely, but there's a scenario where he's the best guy.

Would you trade up ahead of the cowboys for him? Cause I doubt Zimmer would stay in Dallas if they passed on him, given his scheme.

Damn, Chop had 34 hurries in the previous season!

That's awesome!

I'm not positive I'd take him at 32. I damn sure wouldn't trade up for him.

And if Dallas uses a 1st rounder on a DT for the 2nd straight year, Jerrah needs to fire himself. You just can't do that sort of thing. The Eagles could because of their surplus draft capital and a stronger overall roster. Dallas just can't.

I agree here. If we had a dominant, large run stuffing DT that could play next to Chris Jones, I’d be really excited to see them play together. Sweat can get some push on the pass also. Sweat gets double teamed a lot. I’m not sure how you can double team sweat with Chris jones next to him. He doesn’t have to get the sack, sweat just needs to get a pressure and get the qb to move or disrupt the timing and someone else like karlaftis could get the sack. I love sweat next to Chris jones. I think our dline would be really hard to stop with that combination.

After watching some Sweat, I do think you would have to pick your snaps with him and rotate accordingly. But I have a hard time seeing him play much north of half the snaps for a given game, which does affect my valuation of him. But those snaps where he isn't gassed would be electric next to Jones

None of our DTs outside of Jones play more than about 45% of the snaps anyhow. I don't particularly consider snap% for DTs as much in evaluations of them as I would at other positions. I just don't think it's a prerequisite, and especially at NT.

I'm going to hope that the relative disappointment of Mazi Smith and other DTs taken in the first of late pushes Sweat to us in the 2nd. Because as has been noted, 30-40 snaps in a game is all you can likely ask of him. Is that a guy teams will want in the 1st? Or rebuilding teams drafting higher in the 2nd? And once a guy gets around 50, all bets are off as the boards diverge a lot around there.

It's not even needed unless you think Sweat is going to be a penetrating rusher because if you are just wanting a nose you can bring Pennel back and sign another vet for about 5 bucks.

I think he forces teams to account for him in a way most 0-techs can't.

He's more like Jalen Carter in that he's just awfully quick for a guy his size and if you don't address that, he can just crush your interior. While that's not a 'penetrator', it's someone that will take away avenues of escape for your QB.

I don't see him racking up gaudy sack numbers, but I can see him creating a lot of pressures for his teammates or turning those pressures into sacks. He's not your ordinary fat guy in the middle, IMO.

Say you do keep JOnes, woudl you still draft Swift early?

"DT KHRISTIAN BOYD, NORTHERN IOWA PANTHERS
McCormick isn’t the only FCS player on this list who’s dominated for the last two years. Boyd was second among FCS interior defensive linemen in 2022 with a 92.3 PFF run-defense grade. His 87.6 PFF pass-rushing grade this past season was fourth among that same group. He led all FCS defensive tackles in 2023 with 40 pressures while his 15.9% pass-rush win rate was second."

I don’t think there is a need to bring in a NT type. We have Isaiah Buggs and Neil Farrell already on roster. Both are run stuffer.

If Chris jones comes back I don’t think DT is as high a priority. WR and LT should be the focus in the first two rounds.
Having Farrell and Buggs gives us 2 run stuffers to play next to jones. Here are some 3rd and 4th round type guys that would be an interesting option to develop behind jones and help in pass rush downs…

Justin Eboigbe. Alabama
Gabe Hall. Baylor
Dewayne Carter. Duke
Leonard Taylor. Miami
Zion Logue Georgia

A guy I think would be interesting from a developmental stand point that could be a 7th round pick is Saivion Jones, a DE from LSU. He is 6’6” 280. Have him put on 15-20 lbs and develop as an inside pass rusher.

I like Sweat for all the same reasons mentioned, but I'm wondering if we would be interested in Robinson as an Omenihu replacement?

Brandon Dorlus from Oregon is interesting. Has played everywhere on the DL. He apparently lost some weight as he was projected as 6'3" 290 but came to the Senior Bowl at 272.

His tape is really good. Played DE and DT. Very disruptive and quick on the inside. Could play the role of Mike Danna on inside rush downs as well as fill in for Omenihu at DE.

Projected rd 2

Yeah, Dorlus is on my 2nd round list, for sure. Does seem like a nice inside/outside sort of Danna replacement. I think I'd find someone else I like better there, but I wouldn't hate Dorlus at 64.

Javontae Jean-Baptiste is on my radar as a guy you can keep packing the pounds on. When he came to Ohio State he was like 210 pounds. When he left Notre Dame he was about 255 or so. He's 6'5" and still looks like he can add 20-30 pounds with ease to that frame. He's kind of more of a Romeo Okwara type but I think if you can pull this kid out of the 5th round and just keep molding the clay like they did Danna then he can be a servicable rotational player.

The guy really up on my radar though is Cedric Johnson from Ole Miss. The dude is shot out of a cannon off the snap and can bend. He's built a lot more like Frank Clark or Dee Ford though. Hoping we can get that kid in the 4th.

Made Bruce Feldman's Freak's List - ranked #41. He wrote "At 6-3, 270, he has just 11.3 percent body fat, and he vertical-jumped 36.5 inches, broad-jumped 10 feet and bench pressed 390 pounds. This offseason, he topped over 20 mph on the GPS and did six pull-ups with a 70-pound belt attachment."

Mohamed Kamara, DT/DE, CO ST, 6-1 252 lbs, 13 sacks in 2023.

2nd most productive pass rusher last season, 71 pressures & 19.6% win rate.

A little undersized for us but high praise for his pass rush and work ethic.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/...-ColoradoState

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C3Tbl8ozVE

He's probably more like 250 or so. I'd be floored if he were anywhere near 270. But yeah, he's quick.

I've liked Kamara as 4th/5th rounder. Of that lot of 3rd day DEs, I think he's probably my favorite.

I also really like Myles Cole out of Texas Tech but we don't have a 6th/7th round pick and I feel like that's where he should end up. Maybe we can snag him as a priority UDFA.

I like Jenkins a lot. His athleticism shows on tape. He’s not as good with his hands as Newton but I love his long term upside.

I pray to God this makes Newton fall to us bc this kid is so freaking good

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Illinois?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Illinois</a> DT Johnny Newton underwent surgery in January to repair a partial Jones fracture in his foot. Played the second half of the 2023 season with the injury.<br><br>The projected 1st rounder won&#39;t work out at the Combine, but should be cleared for an April pro day.</p>&mdash; Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) <a href="https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1760751588006658297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I sprint the card to the podium if Newton is there at 32.

Yeesh.

Meanwhile I hear "Jones fractures" and cringe. Hard.

Those are scary for a 300 lb dude. And something caused them; that's not typically just bad luck.

Love the player but that worries the hell out of me.

Chris Jones type?
 

I am curious what opinion is about Maason Smith. He is the same height and weight as Chris Jones. It looks like he can bat down passes pretty well. I imagine he is worth a shot in round 3 or 4?

I like Sweat.

Would take him if available and Chris Jones walks.

Would occupy 2 guys and create chaos.

You taking him at 32? Because he's not making it to 64...

Probably not. I still don't know that it's impossible.

Because you have to project him to get pass rush ability. People did that with Mazi last year and it went poorly. In fact, it goes poorly more often than it doesn't. Even a guy like Saunders took 4 years to get anything on that front.

I think you're probably right. But I'm not positive of it. A guy like Sweat or Murphy that comes out of the draft with more obvious pass rush chops is unlikely to get to 2nd but there have been enough of these really big, really quick guys who never really develop into anything more than a run-stuffer that I wouldn't be shocked to see him at 64.

Only if Chris Jones walks would I consider it but he is a 1st round talent and would be a valuable player here.

Darius Robinson, was being interviewed on XM radio this am. Was very impressed on how he handled the questions, Charlie Weiss was very impressed with him.

Yeah, unfortunately Robinson probably long gone.

Saw someone at PFF predict Robinson could end up going top 15 by the end of the draft process!?

Were they anticipating big numbers from the combine?

I did hear the NFL network podcast say that all the scouts couldn't stop talking about him at the Senior Bowl. His performance there probably put him into the late 1st round.

But, some great numbers from the combine could easily move him up into top half. I mean, the kid looks like a freak, so I am actually expecting him to tear it up.

Not worried. Based on things I've read, so long as there is screw fixation and at least 10 weeks of recovery time, there is usually complete healing and especially so if it were a clean break. There was a study done a decade ago on them and the highest prevalence in draftable prospects was in defensive lineman. Something like 25% of all cases and there were quite a few.

Honestly, I think it has a biggest impact on RBs during the second half of their careers. Anyhow, I don't think it should be something that makes you cringe.

If he falls to us, run to the podium.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Byron Murphy II<br>6004<br>297<br>10 1/4 hand<br>32 3/8 arm<br>77 1/8 wing</p>&mdash; Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) <a href="https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1763248014666133893?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 29, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Does Brandon Dorlus not look like a prototypical defensive lineman in a Spags system? At 290, he can play all up and down the line, has good production, and is still just 22.

Yea, big fan and on my short list for 64.

Precisely. He's likely to exceed expectations at the combine and get some additional attention apparently.

He is absolutely a prototypical spags DL IMO and would be a perfect Omenihu replacement, although it would have worked out better if Omenihu were healthy for 1 more year to play ahead of him I think.

Biggest question mark on the entire team is what to make of FAU?

Is he going to play this year? Is he a guy? a JAG? What's the timeline? Rotation?

What's the deal!?

Maason Smith
6051 / 306
35 arm / 84 5/8 wing

Woo boy

Vondre sweat falling or what? I’m seeing some sites have him in the third.

He’s young at 21 and his 40 is 4.8? Is that possible? That sounds crazy.

I am horny for Maason Smith. For sure.

He's so big and fast and powerful, but he's also REALLY smooth and agile.

He's not as fluid in those drills as Fiske or Murphy or Ororhoro or Kris Jenkins or Leonard Taylor. But he's close to those guys and much, much larger.

I'm down with taking Smith in the 2nd-3rd round and molding the clay for a year or two.

I think he's got the best shot in this DT class of being the next type of "Holy shit he's a rare mutant" player.

4.95 for Darius Robinson. He’s a DT who can play DE if needed.

Maason Smith is a classic "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" type of prospect. IF you can ever unlock it you really got something but I just don't think he has "it." Probably worth a shot in the dark in the 3rd or 4th though, despite what I'd have him ranked if not for the Tarzan aspect (6th/7th).