Boston.com lays down the dynasty gauntlet.
 

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-en...triots-dynasty

Any aspirations the Chiefs have to surpass the Patriots are laughable
The Chiefs? A Patriot-like dynasty? I’d say get back to me on that in 2037, Tyreek.
By Chad Finn, Sports columnist
July 30, 2020

I get the satisfaction the rest of the NFL gets in assuming, if not outright declaring, that the Patriots’ reign is over for good, that the dynasty of all NFL dynasties is finally deceased after almost 20 years.

Hey, maybe it is over. One probably could even say it is, given that Tom Brady is now a Buccaneer and some longtime admirable Patriots, including Dont’a Hightower and Patrick Chung, have opted out of the 2020 season because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Me, I’m never declaring them anything less than a playoff contender so long as Bill Belichick is around. I remember what he did in 2001, and all that he’s achieved since. Last season ended badly, and the degree of difficulty for true Super Bowl contention undoubtedly has increased, unless Cam Newton is about to have a ’99 Randall Cunningham/‘13 Peyton Manning type of renaissance.

I know this, and everyone else who has been following the NFL for the last two decades should, too: Sleep on Belichick’s Patriots at your own peril.

Of course, it’s more fun for many to declare them dead, and certainly more comforting to cast them out of sight and out of mind. I get that. I remember doing it with the dynasty Yankees in 1999 … and 2000 … and 2001, when they finally did lose. There’s not much that’s more human than dreaming about all the ways your tormentor might get his comeuppance.

What annoys me is not that the Patriots are being spoken of in the past tense. It’s the failure to appreciate the magnitude of their achievement, especially from those who know firsthand how brutal and unforgiving the NFL can be on a week-to-week basis, let alone year-to-year.

You’d think they recognize how incredible it was, given how long they’ve waited for it to fade.

Yet here we are, with Tyreek Hill of the reigning Super Bowl champion Chiefs saying recently on an ESPN program that the Chiefs aren’t just thinking about repeating as champs. They’re thinking about becoming a dynasty and chasing … the Michael Jordan-era Bulls?

“Why not go seven rings?” said Hill last Thursday on ESPN’s “First Take.” “Right now we’re just chasing Jordan, so that’s what we do. So I’m going over five” – the number teammate Chris Jones predicted they would win – “and I’m saying seven.”

Now, Hill is not the first professional athlete to count his championship rings before the games have been played. The silly little pep rally LeBron James and the Heat threw to celebrate his signing in July 2010 (yep, it was that long ago) was so over the top in premature self-congratulations (“not one, not two, not three rings …”) that his two-title tenure there feels like an underachievement. They essentially had their championship parade before they even played together.

Hill and the Chiefs have won one title. One. They stand where the Patriots did in 2002 … with one ring, a brilliant young quarterback (Patrick Mahomes) helming it all, and a bright future that carries at least some uncertainty because everything in the brutal NFL carries uncertainty. They are in an enviable spot, but there is no guarantee that their promise will continue to be fulfilled. One cruel Sunday can change even the best-laid plans.

The Chiefs do know how hard it is to win once, having dealt with a devastating AFC Championship game loss to — hey, look, it was the Patriots — to end the 2018 season before getting over the hump last year. They have no idea how hard it is to win twice, or three times, and coming close to claiming six rings, let alone seven, should be downright unfathomable.


You’d think at the very least Hill and friends would remember to align their bold goals with the achievements of the two-decade dynasty from their own sport.

They are where the Patriots were in 2002. And the run for the Patriots, if it indeed is over, lasted more than another decade and a half beyond that. It amazes me that other NFL franchises don’t marvel at how the Patriots sustained that excellence.

You know what the best-case scenario for the Chiefs is? That Mahomes stays healthy, the majority of their core players stick around (Jones got his own nice payday after Mahomes’s record-setting $503 million deal), general manager Brett Veach drafts extremely well and is unemotional about parting ways with fan favorites … and the Chiefs end up being half of what the Patriots have been.

The Patriots weren’t — aren’t — just a dynasty. They were in essence two dynasties, the first three championships (2001, ’03, and ’04) and the next three (2014, ’16, and ’18) bookending a stretch of excellence (2005-13) in which lousy luck and other forces conspired to remind us just how hard it is to win a single Super Bowl.

Maybe, if everything goes right — and remember, the window is tight with key players like tight end Travis Kelce and safety Tyrann Mathieu becoming free agents after 2021 — the Chiefs could collect a couple more Lombardi Trophies in the next few years, and get into that conversation with the ’90s Cowboys as a three-title dynasty. But that is the absolutely best-case scenario.

There is no evidence that any current NFL franchise has the acumen and discipline to turn over the roster and adjust on the fly like Belichick’s Patriots did time and again as the dynasty evolved and shifted.

There were the early veteran-laden, defensive-focused teams with Richard Seymour and Ty Law and Tedy Bruschi. There was Brady’s evolution into an elite passer and then the best quarterback there has ever been, with favored targets ranging from Troy Brown to Deion Branch to Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Rob Gronkowski, and Julian Edelman. Sure, Brady was the constant, but the Patriots never resisted change, even if it meant saying goodbye to one favorite champion after another.

The Chiefs have a wonderful core now. To become a dynasty of the Patriots magnitude — that is, a dynasty unequaled in the annals of the NFL, for now and most likely as long as this sport lasts — it requires multiple cores.

The Patriots won their first Super Bowl in the 2001 season. Seventeen year later, with the same coach and quarterback and an ever-changing cast of admirable contributors, they won their sixth. It’s unprecedented, and I’m fairly sure it cannot be imitated.

The Chiefs? A Patriot-like dynasty? I’d say get back to me on that in 2037, Tyreek. But you’ll be long gone from the league by then. And I suspect we’ll know the truth about how short your team fell much, much sooner than that.

Well, they're right. I'm glad our guys are excited, but I'd give us about a 1% chance of matching the Pats in Super Bowls in Pat's career.

The patriots cheated. They're irrelevant in any discussion of great teams.

Damn the Patriots (and their fans) are insecure.

Those guys feel the need to rise to the bait every. single. time.

The author literally complains that no one gives the Pats’ longevity their due.

Like... what?

They live in a constant state of butthurt, it's what happens when you literally didn't matter for your entire existence till recently.

**** anything and everything Northeast US.

Rewind 3 years ago when we were still stuck in Alex Smith purgatory. Amazing that we are even discussing the possibility of a dynasty.

I'm rock hard.

I give the patriots their due, they won a lot in the weakest division in football with multiple cheating scandals. Good Job.

Outspoken players on a Super Bowl champion team who like to have fun are just talking and dreaming big. They're not guaranteeing shit or saying it's going to be easy or even likely. They're just saying, "That's the height of the mountain, and we're going to try to get there."

Patriot dipshit writer:
https://media1.tenor.com/images/a883...temid=16764806

Kinda like how no one talks about Lance Armstrong's longevity any more since he cheated, too.

This is like the Germans talking shit in 1946.

Let me paint this picture for you: WE DON"T GIVE A **** ABOUT THE PATRIOTS OR TOM BRADY OR WHATTHE****EVER YOU ARE ON ABOUT BOSTON. GO FYS

Boston writer:

"I'm really shocked that members of the current Super Bowl champions did not begin their comments to the media by first saying 'The Patriots dynasty is the greatest accomplishment of human civilization, and I am nothing compared to their legacy'"

Good point. The Germans cheated against the Soviet Union.

I wonder if the rapid descent didn't do this to them.

They never got to get used to merely being good. They went from a SB champion in 2018 to completely irrelevant in 2020 (after an unceremonious 2019 dispatch). So they never just got to coast on their past successes and enjoy some pretty good, no longer great, football.

So they're just churlish dicks about it when people point out that they probably aren't gonna be worth a damn this year. So they want everyone to know that they USED to be good.

I really don't get it. Bulls fans weren't like this that I can recall and they're the nearest thing professional sports has to a similar dynasty of late.

To be fair, the internet was in its infancy when the Bulls died. It's likely that a similar article was written about whoever thought they'd be the next big thing after that, but it was probably in a local paper that people outside of Chicago never saw.

Arrogant Boston sportswriter wants is to know how great (insert Boston sports team) is or was


News at 10

They're afraid because they know without a shadow of a doubt that Mahomes is better than Brady ever was. There's a lot that goes into dynasties beyond that of course, but it at least allows the potential for a Patriots-like run.

I was on a band once called the Churlish Dicks.

What a chode.

This guy's really dealing with a lot of insecurity.

Two years from now after Mahomes has his third Super Bowl trophy, “Mahomes wishes he was as accomplished as Tom Brady. He only has three titles to Brady’s six and Brady is still the greatest.”

Why wait two years for these twits?

Go on YT and check any video of Mahomes or a SBLIV highlight clip, and check the comments. Always at least a half a dozen Patsie fans in the first dozen or so comments posting their Patsie BS. Before Feb. it was "Bill and Tom will never let Mahomes win the AFC, so he'll never win a SB until they retire," and now it's "Mahomes won't be able to stay healthy, so he'll never win another SB." And so on. The actual mental twisting and twirling is actually pretty hilarious.

**** YOU, BAAAWSSTIIN

Yeah, if Mahomes matches or exceeds Brady, there would be "the next Mahomes" (well, and for the next 20 years) and "next Chiefs" talk.... and people in KC would be telling that team to pump the breaks, and how hard it is to win one much less 7, etc.

It's a big brother, "let me tell you about how it really is" article... and if the Chiefs reach that big brother status, fans will say the same thing.

It's a pretty fundamental cycle of sports and media, trying to predict "the next...", while 'the original' smirks.

well when you have to cheat to win , then there will always be questions around your side "dynasty"

It isn't this article.

It's the last 12 months they spent telegraphing that this was the article they were going to write when it took a miracle offsides penalty to get past us in 2018 and Brady was rumbling about wanting out.

Oh, and the 15 years of "nobody believes in us" that they wrote prior to that.

These guys have been obnoxious, thin-skinned, petty little tyrants for nearly 2 decades now and it's hilarious how transparent it is.

Yeah, thats so hard to do. Look how much luck is involved. Does anyone think that if we win that coin flip that Patrick doesn't will this team into the end zone? But, all those SB wins and trips to the AFCCG's..... it wasn't luck.

they have a hall of fame coach, maybe GOAT coach. They have the reigning GOAT QB. There is a reason its never been done in the era of free agency. Its a long shot.

Only way that happens is if Herbert and Lock flame out and the Raiders don't get a real QB.

If all 3 division opponents spend a decade struggling to find a real solution at QB, just as the AFC East did for most of the Brady/Belichick era, the Chiefs will coast to that 1st round bye quite a bit and set themselves up for something silly like 8 AFCCGs in 10 years.

But if there's as much as a single credible pro-bowl caliber QB in the division outside of KC, it throws that entire equation out because that would be just enough to toss an extra loss or two into the mix and gum up the works here and there.

The B/B run was so remarkable because of how much had to happen to make it possible, not the least of which was the rank incompetence of every division opponent the Patriots had. Getting a cakewalk to a 5-1 division record every season, with a pretty easy 6-0 if they could just keep from stepping on their dicks in Miami, made life pretty easy for the Pats.

That’s exactly why they get but hurt about anything to do with challenging their dynasty.

They’ve been shown multiple times how tainted those titles are and have a complex about it. It’s also why multiple Pats fans disappeared from CP after the taping of the bengals issue.

It was proof they cheated the whole time.

Andy and Pat will do it without any asterisks.

Of course they’re terrified.

Watch Tom Brady’s career highlight reel and look how ****ing lame it is.

Watch Mahomes’s highlights from just the last two years, and you’ll see exactly why they’re so scared.

**** them.

The Cowboys were awesome in the 90’s. Nobody gives a shit today.

Same with the Pats. That era is past tense.

Three titles for Patrick Mahomes is the "absolute best-case scenario"? Really? It's outside the realm of possibility that the greatest athlete in the history of the world will win more than three championships?

Everyone thought the Packers were kicking off a dynasty after their 2010 championship. They said the same for the Seahawks (in their defense, they got pretty damned close to the back-to-back). Hell, even the Eagles looked prime to be a perennial powerhouse after their 2017 win and that shit folded in a hurry.

This shit can fall apart in a hurry.

Well we are pissing off all the right people!

It's a really hard thing to do, no doubt. Even the Patriots went 10 years between titles.

Given that we're living in the free agent era now, you can probably win 3-4 titles at best before your GM has to really knock it out of the park by reloading as guys start chasing money elsewhere. Our team definitely seems to have the right attitude and the desire to do something great as a team though, which is the first step.

That said, if we even got in New England's ballpark they'll probably they'll get way, way, way more salty than this. Look at how Patriots fans scour the internet trying to defend every criticism against them. It's not even the Chiefs, if any NFL team could rip off 3-4 titles they're going to downplay them and it's going to be hilarious.

This. I admit the odds of KC winning 6 out of 20 is quite low. But their ceiling isn't 6/20... the ceiling is literally 20/20. That's the definiton of a ceiling IMO. It's possible Mahomes wins every Superbowl he plays. On average, if they have a 1 in 10 chance every year, and Mahomes plays for 15 more years, that's an average of 2.5 superbowls. If they have a 1 in 8 shot, it's 3. 1 in 5, it's 4. You think Mahomes can win a Superbowl once every 5 years? So far so good, especailly if we take advantage of this low salary cap this next few years.

If they get lucky in drafts, if Veach is really a top 5 GM, or even the best at talent, with Reid and whatever great coach follows, we can win 6 or 7. If Lamar is choke in the playoffs Lamar, and Watson is stuck with the Texans, and the Bengals are terrible even with a great QB, we have a good chance of coming out of the AFC most of the time. We'd have to get lucky, but hell, we know that.

Do we get to cheat also? :shrug:

We found Asterix. I've never seen a fan base whose entire self worth is tied to a cheating scumbag franchise like Pat bandwagon trash

Oh...and they didn't "win" 6 titles. ******

Who TF is this dumb ass Chad Finn? Hey Chad, rochambeau

:hmmm:

I would like to take this opportunity to say **** you, Amnorix.

Tuck it
Deflate them
That just leaves the asshole

Bagdad Bob comes to mind

"the Chiefs have won one title. One. They stand where the Patriots did in 2002 … with one ring"

This is about all you need to know about the author. :thumb:

We have already dominated the AFC before and during the Mahomes run. Andy has their number. And they already had Rivers and Carr- who were ProBowl QB's- which netted them 1 win each- with MASSIVE help from the refs. Carr had a bounceback year last year according to Fader fans and the Chiefs blew them away in both games.

I have doubts that Gheybert and Lock will even be as good as either Rivers or Carr. The division runs through KC the next decade.

LOL! It would have been already #3 if shit head could have controlled himself by staying just 5 ****ing inches back - WE WOULD HAVE DONE IT THEN!

Seriously though that is crying over spilled milk. How many SB teams were actually able to keep 98% of that team in tact for the next season and semi beyond? Chemistry - plain and simple. Will we win 5 to 7 more titles? Probably not but I do believe that 3 more is not out of the question.

who care what they think. The world knows they cheat and we now have the best QB in the NFL. AND PEOPLE LIKE HIM.

Everyone hates Tom Brady.

I am pretty sure the Chiefs could care less what anyone from Boston has to say about their future "Aspirations" cheating haters and going to hate.

New England Patriots
Boston Red Sox
Boston Bruins
Boston Celtics

I hate those 4 ****ing teams with a red hot intensity but let's be honest, what city will ever come close to doing what these ****wads did over a 10 year span.

From 2004 they won 10 World titles.

God damn Southies!

It’s obvious that this guy knows it’s over so let’s bring out the history. It’s typical of teams that once were relevant but are no longer.

I'm hoping that our edge will be free agency.

Players went to play for the patriots for the ring. Did you ever hear them say they went there because of the coaching staff or the vibe in the locker room? I sure haven't.

I suspect that the Chiefs will be able to attract a wider range of players that have different motivations than the patriots were able to. The guys seem to really love each other, Reid... the entire organization. Give Veach that edge and I feel we can keep this team stocked for the long haul.

Good lord, Pats fans are insecure.

You’d think after 6 titles (some a little ‘tainted’, mind you) they wouldn’t have to do this shit.


In my best Ron Burgundy voice ‘Go **** yourself, Boston’

**** all things Cheatriot.

End.

That dude is around for years and years, we win one and he disappears forever, what a pus.

The 2002 Patriots went 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

We're actually way AHEAD of where Patriots were this early on, especially if you count our AFC Championship appearance from the year before as the actual first year of the dynasty.

Even the Broncos fans stuck around and ate more shit than that guy.

What a pussy, indeed...

Everybody in this thread had an appropriate response but you pillowbitergot.

If Andy and Pat win 3 total SB's, thats a huge success and a dynasty.

The Pats shit was an absolute fluke ass over tea kettle. They fell into a HOF QB, their division sucked forever and whatever.

It won't happen again anywhere. The odds just aren't in favor of it.

If you win 3 SB's, thats a monumental success.

Pats also got stupid lucky with Coach Pete choking a win away from the 1 yard line, and god knows whatever the **** going through Kyle Shanahan's mind when the Falcons imploded. Pats put in a good amount of effort in those games sure, but they really shouldn't have won either, if the NFC team had actually committed to the finish.

hell they should never have even made it to the first Super Bowl they won, but that's just a salty Raider fan talking. Brady fumbled that damn ball.

Yep! **** Donk Forever!
Oops, wrong thread.

Oh, right.. uhh..... **** THOSE CHOWDER EATING PUSSIES!

(Is that better?)

You could also say they should have won a couple more if not for a legendary helmet catch and a routine drop by Welker that he probably makes 99 times out of 100.

Yeah, they could have 2 rings or 8.... and at the end of Mahomes' career, we could be saying the same thing, with the actual result somewhere in the middle.

Right.

Who knows how things would have been different for us if there’s just one minor tweak during our run.

Shit, we can already play that game with Dee Ford’s **** up.

Dude. The point is that yes, you can absolutely bring up the bullshit calls that went both ways in that Patriots string of championships as a reason for why it is so highly mathematically unlikely to ever occur again. That's fine. Math is a reason. But what do Patriots writer and just about all Pats fans say, though?

"The least you could do is put some respect behind our accomplishments!"

"You can't do what we did because you don't have the coldness or ruthlessness of Belichick to let any and all of your best players walk away for nothing."

"What we've done is absolutely incredible! Cheating scandals aside, surely the frequency of our victories means something, right?"

So is it math or is it unbelievable accomplishment? And don't give me that, "Well, it's gotta be a mixture of both...." bullshit. If it's a mixture of both, then the Packers under Rodgers and the Colts under Manning are also dynasties, because they were constantly in the discussion for a possible Super Bowl just about every year. If it's a mixture of both, then what is the actual difference between those stretches of amazing teams and the teams the Pats would trot out on the field year after year?

I'm not saying we're going to win five or six under Mahomes, but if Pats douche says we have to shut up and suck Patriot dick because of what they did, then he needs to shut up and let events play out, because when you've got the best QB in football, a top 3 best-run organization, and the coaching infrastructure that the Chiefs do, if math is irrelevant to the success of the Patriots, then it's irrelevant to us.

Ok, but was I wrong?

Your smug, sanctimonious response of, "Oops I forgot I'm supposed to hate the Patriots!" was pretty ****ing douchey

Did you miss the comment I was responding to?

I think it's both.... the 'unbelievable accomplishment' part is all of the SB appearances over the course of almost 20 years with the same QB/coach combination (or just the same QB). The math is the idea that over the course of those almost 20 years, they could have won a couple fewer or a couple more SBs.

The math is of course a sliding scale... sliding from those accomplishments, even if they had only won 2 SBs, is still quite the slide down to Manning's two appearances and one victory or Rodgers' one appearance.

I believe luck plays a factor that's far greater than what many fans realize or want to accept, and that's at least part of the 'actual difference between those stretches of amazing teams' (and if the Colts had a decent defense at the time)... and dynasties are created or denied on the basis of luck to some extent (or even a large extent). The threshold is of course championships, and luck played a part in their 6, but it also played a part in the fact they don't have 8.

Whether Mahomes' career will be better or worse isn't completely tied to the number of championships he wins... he could end up with 12 appearances and 5 victories, or go 5 for 5, and some will say that's just as great or greater depending on the shit ton of other factors.... the Pats guy is saying the same things we may be saying in 15 or 20 years when there's the next "Chiefs dynasty" in the making, except of course with the shit load of sub context that's been included.

You're right. It was a pretty rapid fall. Halfway through the season they were 8-0 and a lot of people were talking about how they might go undefeated and their defense was the 85 Bears.

Fast forward to week 17 when Miami comes into Foxborough with nothing to play for and knocks them out of a first round bye and then the Titans come into Foxborough the following week and knock them out forever.

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Patriot fans - and their sportswriters - are like that 45 year old guy on the softball field that keeps telling everyone about how good they were in their 20s and 30s.

Ross Tucker says Chiefs aren’t a dynasty...they won’t even repeat as champs.


https://youtu.be/AC1l-HqpbN8

Bold strategy, taking the field, Ross.

Really going out on a limb there buddy.

He wrote an article for The Athletic that was just 7 types of stupid. It was funny, the guy defines a dynasty and then says "There have only been 5 of them in 50 years....the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s and 2010s...."

Um....Ross, buddy, I'm not sure you just said what you thought you said. Because what you thought you said was 'this never happens' but what you actually said was 'it has happened in every single decade in the modern era'.

Literally every. single. decade. in the last 50 years, bud.

Maybe making former football players analysts isn't the most brilliant approach.

ROFL

Ross Tucker was an OT he probably has brain damage.

Look at this -- ****ing goober thought this SUPPORTED his argument...

It's like he didn't read it when he was done. Like...how do you write this article and make THIS a key component of it?

It's never been done except when it has been done! ROFL