Tyler Bray vs Patrick Mahomes II competition for backup
 

This should be a simple poll. Who do you all think will win the backup job to Alex Smith during training camp and preseason competition? Meaning the one that gets to suit up on game days to trust when Alex Smith gets KO~ed out of a game.

Andy Reid said this is a competition so let them duel it out.

Tyler Bray 5th year man being a back up to a backup gives him the edge knowing the system and being around the guys and coaching. He is currently the #2 quarterback.

vs the challenger


Patrick Mahomes II the #10 pick in the first round after trading up 17 spots and has a lot to learn but has desire to be the starting quarterback sooner than later.


This isn't about Alex Smith but who would you trust to go in a game if heaven forbid something happens to our starting quarterback to keep us alive for the playoffs?

Mahomes should redshirt. They'd be better off bringing in Tyler Palko this year. Mahomes needs to rebuild his mechanics and you can't do that while playing.

alex smith is a ****ing stud and will have a mvp year. bray would knock out mahomee in a fight, and ole kermit the frog boys gona bust out of the leauge soon any way. i say big arm b4321ray

I thought about this as the third option but it is what it is. If they both suck I think the Chiefs would bring in another guy if they have too. I just think that the competition is good for the guys to have an insensitive to work for their jobs and worth.

This is why I want

Completely disagree. Mechanics are taught with the goal of creating a more accurate passer.

What if you're accurate without those mechanics? Why does your feet placement matter if you're dropping dimes 30 yards downfield?

I don't believe mechanics can be fixed. It's muscle memory at this point.

Mahomes has enough natural accuracy and arm talent to overcome the lack of traditional mechanics. Sure, they should be honed in an effort to be more consistent, but this idea that his mechanics are so far gone that he HAS to sit? I don't buy it.

With that said, i expect to see Mahomes win the #2 job by preseason week 3.

I'm going with Seth Keysor on this one. You don't need to rebuild Mahomes' mechanics to be successful.

I still believe Bray will be the #2. This will be his fifth season in this system. He has more arm strength than Mahomes but it's really close. Mahomes has better accuracy and better mobility.

I think it will come down to who wants it more and Mahomes seems up for the challenge he seems to strive and thrive where there is competition. That's the difference between the two. Bray has been in the system for 5 years and is just content to be a backup. If he wanted be a starter he would have asked for a trade so he can compete for a starting job somewhere. Maybe one day he would get the taste of starting like Damon Huard but that's his ceiling is Damon Huard third stringer career that does enough to stay latched to a team.


It took him five years to learn the playbook to call out plays and read defenses. I think Patrick Mahomes II will do much to progress much quicker than that.

It also didn't help that Bray seemed to be injured every year

If you don't believe that mechanics can be fixed then I guess all of those golfers on the PGA tour are wasting millions on lessons to correct problems that are unfixable.

Bray? ROFL

He has already done that, there is an article floating around about his major improvements. He started working on all aspects of his mechanics right after his last game in college.

Tyler Palko? :rolleyes:

People keep saying Bray can run the offense- but where is the proof? Last time he was on the field against Live competition he was lost out there. I will believe it when I see it. Bray looks great throwing the ball around until he has to read a defense trying to break him in half. Not really sure how he has stayed on this long- he must really be good pals with Smith.

2PM will win the backup job- they are not going to let our future franchise QB miss valuable reps waiting behind a career clipboard holder like Bray.

Different circumstances entirely. But you know this.

One gets to take his sweet ass time and go through mechanical check list and swing when he's ready. One has the time to go A, then B, then C, swing!

The other has far more decisions to make in a much shorter window. The other doesn't have time to think through his mechanics and "swing" when ready.

It's a bad comparison.

I'll go on record and state that Mahomes will ALWAYS have "bad" mechanics. Mechanics aren't going to be what keeps him off the field.

Yeah, and every year you hear that same damn story about some Qb on some team. It never lasts through the season. They ultimately regress back to their old mechanics.

Reid has even stated that he doesn't like spending a lot of time on a QB's mechanics.

Whatever gains Mahomes has made in non contact, no pressure situations is nice and all...but i don't expect to see Tom Brady out there....ever.

that's incorrect

Imagine if they hadn't corrected Rodgers' mechanics while he sat on the bench being Favre...

Probably Bray the first 8 games then Mahomy the other 11

Because mechanics have a lot to do with consistency. Mahomes deep ball is pretty but it is inconsistent. Sometimes it will be perfect, sometimes he'll underthrow it, sometimes overthrow. No throw of his looks alike and unpredictability isn't what you want from the QB position.
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Look at Aaron Rodger's lower body in most of these throws. They didn't "Fix" shit. His mechanics are very Mahomes like. VERY Mahomes like.

Like i've said many times before: Initially i hated the Mahomes idea because of his mechanics, and i do not believe QB mechanics get "fixed" in the NFL.

The more i watched him though, the more i realized he doesn't need perfect mechanics to make accurate throws. I realized, he was very Rodgers like.

Most of these clips below are what we'd consider "poor mechanics". For QB's like these, **** MECHANICS

**** MECHANICS
**** MECHANICS
**** MECHANICS

Get that shit out of your head.

If you've spent any time watching Mahomes then there is no way in hell you can tell me that they aren't similar, damn near identical to Rodgers in this highlight reel.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nGlV8sSiX2Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Look at that hop-throw Rodgers makes @ 2sec

How about that off balance, shuffled feet throw @ 15sec?

That throw @ 22seconds where he shuffles his feet? SOOOO Mahomes. That's EXACTLY how Mahomes throws.

@37 Seconds, also not perfect footwork.

I'm not even a minute in. We can do this all damn day.

This Mechanics shit....Waaaaay overblown.

They changed rogers mechanics, his throwing motion specifically.

They've been working with Mahomes on his throwing motion. But you can't watch that above video and tell me Rodgers has great lower body mechanics.

Throwing Motion? Im not worried about it one bit.

Disagree with his throws not looking alike.

Agree that consistincy is paramount, but disagree that his deep ball is an issue. Yes, he misses sometimes, but remind me what the average NFL completion % is again for balls that travel 20+ through the air?

Not worried about it.

Look at the footwork @1:07....my god...it's like im watching Mahomes....

I'm tellin' ya guys, forget this mechanics shit. Mahomes will NEVER have great mechanics. Never. And he doesn't need it.

Look at that throw @ 1:20 that Rodgers makes and tell me about his proper mechanics. We can do this all day.

He is not Manning. He is not Brady. He's Rodgers with a Favre like arm.

Rogers is the exception to the rule there though. It's all about muscle memory and such.

Then your comparing him to Elway

Rodgers is the exception because you rarely see arm talent like that. You see it in Mahomes. Mahomes has natural ability.

Most QB's can't accurately throw 60 yard bombs across their body, while running to the left, off balance either. Mahomes does this. Quite regularly, actually.

This is what is exciting about Mahomes. He's oozing with natural ability that most QB's simply don't have.

Maybe. I haven't studied Elway.

No love for Joel Stave?

How old are you? Studying Elway is impossible to neglect as a Chiefs fan during the 80's and 90's

I wonder if Mr. Tomahawk is going to polish his knob before after or during his vote?

Bray, but only for 2017

Every possible gleaning points to Reid being dead serious about sitting Mahomes this year... Pat isnt being rushed out there when Bray has been slowly groomed here, absorbing the playbook for four years

He deserves the spot, for now anyway

I dont care how thickheaded he might be, Bray is currently ahead of Mahomes on the WCO learning curve

Reid is going to sit Mahomes this year almost no matter what, I'd bet... and I'm good with that, it only makes sense

If there were an actual competition, Mahomes.

Of course.

This is a poll? ROFL Tyler Bray won't dress a single regular season game this year you dorks.

I bet Bray for a few reasons:

1) Bray knows the playbook

2) We are better off red shirting Mahomes to work on fundamentals and to learn the playbook. Mahomes made an interesting comment after rookie camps. He said something to the effect of, "When I was in college, our playing style made me focus on ensuring the offensive players were in position when I went to the line. Coach Reid is teaching me to focus on where the defensive players are." That shift won't come overnight. Mahomes is not ready for the pro game right now.

3) Team doesnt want to take a chance on injury to Mahomes

4) Nobody wants a QB controversy. Last year, Smith got a concussion in Indy. Foles stepped in and did a decent job but nothing to create waves. What do you think happens if that same thing occurs again and Mahomes is the second string? The outside pressure to start Mahomes would be intense. I make no pretense of knowing what the locker room would say but we already have people on this site arguing that Mahomes will be the starter by Thanksgiving. Andy Reid's press conference today shows he does a great job of putting out fires and reducing conflict. One primary way would be to de-fuse it before it can begin.

I admit it's possible Mahomes will play so well that Reid is forced to make him the number 2 QB but realistically, it is best if Mahomes is #3 this year.

MyHomey is a lot smarter than Bray with far more athleticism who can think on his feet literally in tough spots. It's taken Bray four years to learn Andy's PB just to get a legit shot at the backup position. Won't take MyHomey that long to learn the Andy's PB IMHO.

kermit the frog isnt gona be a fast learner.

If they really had confidence in bray, they wouldn't have given up so much to get mahomes,. You don't learn shit from the ****ing bench.

Mahomes won't even suit up unless Alex gets injured. Only way he sees the field this year is if both Alex and Tyler are injured or Tyler just plain sucks it up in Alex's absence.

we won't see alex in anything preseason until game three, for one quarter. enjoy the bray times ahead :D

We should definitely go with the experienced veteran. You know, that guy who's never taken a snap in the NFL

Yes, but this is a realistic scenario that people need to brace for.


I'm not suggesting Patrick starts this year but the possibilities are there regardless. Unless the Chiefs scour the waiver line or find someone else to bring in that is somewhat better option than Tyler Bray.


I think the competition is great for the players to push themselves to handle it. I don't question Patrick Mahomes II heart and want to get on the field because everything I've heard and read about him seems pretty positive. However I do question Tyler Bray heart and ambitions because it's taking him so long to learn the playbook and get this opportunity that I think he is just content being backup.

Assuming this poll is for the 2nd spot right out of camp. I think Bray wins it unless he gets injured, which is always a possibility. I don't necessarily think that necessarily means he will remain the #2 QB throughout the season but out of camp, I do think that's the case.

Yes right out of camp so who is going be backup when we play Patriots.

Now I think you have good points and I think it should be Bray to start the season as backup but during the season that could change.

On an even keel I think Patrick would surpass Bray but I don't think it will be an even keel as Bray has a leg up and coaches want to sit Patrick anyways.

I think it co.es down to who do you want traveling with the team and getting meaningful snaps should smith go down.

They're gonna need to put some weights around Mahomes ankles in training camp and teach him not to panic at the first sign of pressure- He's got horrible feet- throws off his back foot to much- He needs to learn to step into his throws- That game against TCU is a good example-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNB1ClZnskk

The NFL aint the Big 12- If he thinks he can play sand lot football like he did in college in the NFL, he wont last 3 years-

The chiefsplanet homerism is blinding some of your judgment lol We are asking if Mahomes will beat out Tyler freaking Bray? ROFL

I think it boils down to how fast PMII picks up the playbook. If he shows he can absorb most of the playbook pretty quickly then he's gonna be #2, if it takes him2-3 years like Bray then they stick with Bray. They aren't gonna trot him out there if all he knows is a couple running plays and 3-4 pass plays.

A first round pick VS a guy who never has taken a snap in a regular season game in the NFL in 5 years of being in the league.

It's not even a real fair contest Bray will get more reps in practice as the incumbent #2 but Patrick Mahomes II is up for the challenge.


At this point and judging by the votes it could go either way it looks like it can be close contest and that is good for all parties they can push each other to be better than they would be otherwise.

Even Alex Smith will have to push himself so he isn't embarrassed that the other two can outplay him.

Mahomes should be the backup so he can really develop in practice by taking reps on the scout team. The best way for Mahomes to learn is to actually play and go through his development in real time, then repeat it every day. He isn't going to learn anything standing at practice and watching everyone else.

We should also want Mahomes to be the backup because of what it means to Alex. I want Alex to know his job is on the line at all times and that he needs to play well consistently if he wants to keep the starting role.

Does anyone really think Alex would feel the slightest bit of pressure to perform if Bray is the backup?

It depends on what Mahomes needs.

If he needs snaps, he will get more as #3 running the scout team even though it won't be with the Chiefs plays.

If he needs to learn to read defenses & grasp Chiefs playbook nuances under pressure, he is better off as #2 doing clipboard duties on game day even though he will have fewer practice snaps. (And I mean the playbook under pressure not the clipboard holder.)

My best guess is they will want him getting snaps handling the ball under center & doing drops.

So Bray 2 & Mahomes 3 is my guess.

The idea of the scout team is for the players to act like the opposing team so for the first game he would have to learn how Tom Brady plays and act like Tom Brady

This is not a bad idea at all :) He needs to study the likes of Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and not so much learn from Alex Smith.

100% performance based.

The best guy is the backup.

Hell, id play the shit out of bray this preseason and see if some team would flip us a pick.

This is my scenario as well.

When push comes to shove, if they need a #2 QB on the field, though, I think they'll give Mahomes the reps.

Reid will go with Bray. Impossible to say at this point if that's the best move, but that's my best guess on what Andy Reid will do.

I don't think Reid has any qualms about playing rookies. I know i may be alone in this, but i personally feel that if Mahomes develops at a rapid rate and demonstrates the ability to lead this offense, and Alex sputters or regresses, i don't think Reid will have a problem pulling the trigger.

I'm not in the camp that believes Alex is guaranteed a full a season.

My prediction: Bray will hold the #2 duties until Pre-season week 3. Then Mahomes will get a chance with the 2's.

Mahomes HAS to win #2 duties so he can dress on Sundays, even if he hasn't surpassed Bray. This is a foregone conclusion. How often does our 3rd string QB dress on Sundays?

If Smith regress, playoff contention or not, Mahomes will get the nod late in the season to ignite the offense.

Other than being a load swallowing Homer. WTF has anyone ever seen that would warrant Bray be qualified to be a #2 backup?

I get some have to beat off to the thought of something scrub making some noise, but dayum this is sad...

If mahomes can't beat out this ballsack then we're ****ed...

Oh, and I hope Bray does well.

So we can trade his ass....

I agree with detox that if Mahomes just comes out and displays that he's the best guy, play him. I'd imagine Reid would do that, if it were the case.

I'd do my best to prop Bray up for sure

The biggest issue i saw with Bray was his piss ass pocket awareness and poor ball security. He hangs out in the pocket with the ball dangling down by his thigh. He's a strip sack waiting to happen. We'll see if he's improved those things.

Oh, and he's shaping up to be a broke dick. He barely plays and get injured seemingly every season for one reason or another.

Who is going be backup to PMII next year?

Do we draft his backup or FA vet on the cheap?

I voted Mahomes, but I kind of hope Bray wins it. I want Mahomes to sit and watch and learn and absorb all he can this year with no pressure of winning games on him.

That said, to think a guy they've kept around for years without a single drop out of the spigot is going to suddenly "get it" might be a little too hopeful.

That was exactly my point, somehow I was mistaken for saying it was Brays job hahaha no chance in hell

Shrug.

Bray's contract is up after this season. It's kind of hard to see the Chiefs offering him a 2nd contract extension. I think the guy will be gone regardless.

Well in this case to me it's kind of pointless that Patrick Mahomes II isn't getting all the #2 reps in practice even though I get the whole competition and Bray is the incumbent bla bla but Patrick is our future mostly starting next year unless he makes opportunity for this year but his progression would greatly improve if he was getting the reps necessary to do so. Why are we wasting time with Bray?


I can almost seeing Chiefs hang on to Alex Smith 18 and make it a competition for the starting job and the loser (Alex Smith) would be back up. An expensive back up but Alex Smith would have to start all over with a new team and new coach and have to prove himself all over again.

I really don't know but Bray needs to really have a good showing or he will be out of the NFL because no one is going give him much of a shot after this if he doesn't. He can be a career backup but that seems to be his ceiling. Patrick has higher ambitions and it shows.

If PMII isn't the backup right out of TC, it won't bother me that much. If he isn't our starting QB in 2018, ima be pissed.

Other than the fact they keep paying him and letting go other draft picks?

Not a thing. Including no signs of life in limited pre-season action.

Not.

At.

All.

I believe it's the 3rd string QB who runs the scout team and has to learn all the various plays that the opponents run. Mahomes should stay 3rd string all year so that he can take the scout team reps. That will help Mahomes the most, I think.

That word allows for various reasoning. The main one is that the team wishes to basically red shirt Mahomes.
I will take it a little further though just or discussion type purposes.
Foles didn't look that much better than Bray did last preseason. Bray has several more years in the system, which is known to take years to learn, than Mahomes.
Hopefully Mahomes has a much greater learning curve allowing him to accomplish exponentially more in one year.

Thought process shouldn't be about whether Bray is qualified to be a #2. It's about where do the Chiefs put Mahomes that benefits him the most? If Bray really still sucks then maybe the Chiefs should go out and sign a veteran to be their #2.

Since Reid has been in KC he has been very conservative in bringing young QBs along, so I'll say Bray.

I'm pretty impressed with the turnout for this poll so far. Thanks everyone who voted.

I think it's going be a good contest and it will come down to perseverance and hard work and that Patrick Mahomes II dedication on top of his talents is going to push him for the win. He just wont be ignored for what he is capable of.

i bet bray beats kermit the frog in a street fight.and he has a better cannon.

how many times did we see video pre draft of bray slinging the ball 70 yards downfield? 0 :D

Bray does have a cannon. It is nice now, having two QB's on our roster who don't look like they are throwing a shot putt when they sling the pigskin.

bray has had every opportunity to be kurt cousins the second. if mahomes beats him out, hes a poor mans brady quinn. :D