So you enjoyed watching the back to back 3 and outs and multiple punts? The 36 combined points we've scored the past 3 weeks must have been exhilarating for you.

Ugh. This is upsetting.

On the one hand, it's kind of a relief. He is seeing these guys open. I've been concerned that he's just not seeing things right out there, which would be a huge issue obviously.

Regardless, this is a pretty big issue too. It seems like an easy fix- just take the sure thing! But pressing for the big play might just be in this guy's DNA, which would be very hard to shake. If he can't ever adjust to these shell defenses, we're going to be saddled with an average QB for the next handful of seasons.

Partially impatience. But also recognition that long drives increase the chance of mistakes. And our RBs are not going to steal first downs for you. There's a reason defenses would rather er do this. A long int is easy to shake off. Very hard to shake off grinding out a long drive only to come up short or turn the ball over.

He didn't have this issue earlier in the season. I think he just has the yips because he doesn't trust his defense, RBs or non primary receivers. Hopefully back to back good games by the D will get him more settled.

he isn't Alex Smith

Hitting open receivers and tight ends is being Alex Smith? He just admitted he passed over an open Kelce for a double covered Hardman. That's a problem.

He isn't going to stop being aggressive as Childress story clearly points out. He see's the field different than Alex did and he is going to go for the long shots. Previous seasons it worked out just fine, this season not so much. You take the good with the bad with Mahomes. I am ok with it.

I still say the WR''s suck balls and don't get open much outside of Hill. They are ST players we have kept around for years to make them WR's and it's a fail. Mahomes doesn't trust them and then you throw in a banged up aging Travis and you got Mahomes back there with not much to throw to. Then there's the drops and the picks off WR's hands and you get some shell shock from your QB with less confidence in his skill players.

He now has to rewire his brain to look short then deep and he's struggling to do that.

I’ll reserve judgement until the season is over, but if he continues the downward slide it might be time to draft some legit competition for him next spring. Just to push him if nothing else.

haha :LOL:

Kelce was 20 yards down the field and would have gotten more yards after the catch.

Intermediate throws are Alex Smith throws now?

LMAO

JFC

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Bullshit, that wasn't even an Alex Smith avg. game.

That's the thing though. Teams have taken away the long ball. If he continues to try it bad things will happen. He needs to take the short and intermediate throws until the defense does a better job of respecting that. Not saying he should go full Alex, but he need to pick his spots when going long, especially when your options are a HOF TE that is open underneath or a double covered #2 WR who is failing to live up to expectations. If that were Tyreek, that's one thing and another if it's Hardman.

This comes back to Andy Reid.
There aren't many Intermediate routes being run, and that part of the field has been open.

Come on Deberg, I expect more nuance to your craft.

Mahomes isn't the only great that slumping in his game right now.

I thought Mahomes' pocket presence was better yesterday. He looked pretty damn poised in a lot of his drop backs. There wasn't much scrambling around. He had good protection most of the night too. IIRC he wasn't hit often and his jersey remained clean most of the night.

Obviously he overthrew a couple of those deeps balls but ****, are some of you understanding that he's trying to lead his receivers against deep safety play? That's ****ing hard, dudes.

Mahomes didn't have statistically his best game and yeah he almost threw a pick 6 on the comeback to Tyreek, but there was a lot of good in that game in terms of Mahomes play.

He finished the game with a magic Mahomes play to ice it and take home the W. It's sucks that i have to point that out to Chiefs fans.

The score doesn't show it, but i think some positive steps forward were made last night in terms of Mahomes getting back to being himself.

I think people are really overanalyzing this. I keep seeing claims that Mahomes is incapable of pocket passing or taking what's there. The reality is that we've seen plenty of both. Remember when everyone celebrated the masterful work done vs Buffalo in the AFCC? Hell, what about the first month of this season? He was doing a pretty solid job of taking what was there.

The fact that he makes a bad decision now and then and tries the bomb instead of the easy first down to Kelce doesn't mean that he's broken and "incapable." Everything on here is so extreme. When things are going well, he's a God who can do no wrong. Now he's broken and worthless.

Personally, I think that if yesterday's game were a playoff game, he would have taken the first down to Kelce. I think he expected to roll with Love at QB and decided to go for some highlight reel plays.

I also think that Mahomes tends to get complacent when the team has a lead or he's playing a weak opponent. Not that he isn't trying to make plays obviously, but he doesn't have the same level of urgency. I think it was telling that when they needed a drive at the end, he made it happen.

If his toe is actually 100%, he should be utilized more like Matt Stafford vs. the Titans last night, when a moving pocket was used. Our tackles aren't exactly fleet-footed, but at least Mahomes could do what he does best...make plays on the move.

Are crossing routes not allowed in his playbook? Is he just being obstinate with his gameplan?

Dude our offense is pretty much all crossing routes all the time. Deep crossing routes is our bread and butter, so much so that teams are sitting on them now, hence the deep cover 2 zones.

Crossing routes are literally all we freakin' run.

I'm talking about shorter crossing routes across the middle. Not deep routes.

Mahomes has entered the hidden stats phase of Chiefs QB'ing

He can only count on 2 guys to throw the ball to…Kelce & Hill. The rest are below average to pathetic.
I know we all make fun of Sammy Watkins but when he played, the Chiefs were a different team.

A #2 WR is a must in this offense & the Chiefs don’t have one.


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I don't know if Patrick is "broken," but it's apparent that he's way out of whack.

The reality is that Mahomes is going through his reads way too fast most of the time and not giving his receivers any time to get open. Something he's had trouble with throughout his career. He's always known about it, he's even been quoted and there's film of him saying that he should've waited for "X" to get open but he didn't, since 2019.

Then quixotically, he will at other times lock onto a receiver (mostly Hill) even when he isn't open. Early in the game (I think), he threw what should've been an easy INT when Hill ran an out-route where he was literally never open, and Mahomes threw at him anyway when there was no chance at all Hill was going to get his hands on it.

And this is where I get nervous. Mahomes has had his issues with going too fast and trying to play hero ball and sometimes throwing with little touch, but he's hardly ever made really bad decisions, until this season. We could always count on him doing exactly the right thing 99% of the time, and not doing Josh Allen or Lamar level stupid things with the football in big moments. Until now.

Add to that his inexplicable inaccuracy on a large percentage of his throws, and his equally perplexing poor processing/reading of the defense, has led to this temporary decline. I say temporary because I fully believe he'll eventually sort all of that out.

But it's obviously going to take some time. The problem is that the season is already half over and he hasn't made significant strides towards rectifying most of those things.

Whatever is going on in his head, and I believe this is all in his head and not about who he's playing with or who's calling the plays, he needs to sort it out ASAP. Aside from the INT, Jordan Love out-played Mahomes in every major statistical category yesterday (completion%, yards, YDS/ATT, etc.), and Love wasn't very good at all.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!…. Dafuq this guy.

I just don't buy that rhetoric. The great QB's of the past have made stars out of JAGs. Mahomes will be fine, but he is in a funk, particularly the last few games.

Here we go again blaming Andy LMAO

This is also true. In the scripted plays we seem to flood the underneath zones with shallow/mid crossers against the 2 deep look, and this is working. We then proceed to not do that for several drives. We had a 3 and 4 yesterday and every route that was being run was 8+ yards We are way more vertical than we have been in past years and we need to get more horizontal. Even our pre snap motions seems less advanced than past years.

What I noticed (and one of the announcers even mentioned it) was how often Mahomes would throw up a prayer deep with 2-3 men in coverage while Kelce was free in the middle of the field. You could see his frustration at times. Don't force it deep;Pat needs to learn the 10-20 yard chunks are good too.

After Hill, does KC even have a JAG at receiver?

Asking for a friend.

I'd normally say yes, but these WR's (even Hill) have the ****ing dropsy's this year.

So.many.dropped.balls.

I am convinced Mahomes is banged up. Something is completely off with his mechanics. I mean he doesnt have good mechanics but he somehow made everything work in unison and deliver deadly accurate passes. His accuracy is shot, he over throws every deep ball, throws into the dirt and behind receivers regularly. Maybe its mental but i just dont see anything on the field that should have destroyed his mental game like this.

Watkins didn’t make us a different team. Mahoney doesn’t need 3 great targets to succeed

Look at the Panthers game in 2020. We had no run game. We couldn’t stop a nosebleed on defense. Watkins was hurt, didn’t play. The only thing keeping us from getting blown out was the arm of Mahomes making full use of the field and his weapons. We won a shootout 33-31.

It doesn’t have to be perfect. Pat just has to play better. If the 2020 team got the Love Packers in Arrowhead it would’ve been 31-0

Mahomes plays better on the run, he throws better, he reads/influences defenses better.

Our current OT's just can't handle Mahomes on the run like Fisher and Schwartz could.

Right now, Mahomes is trying to help our OT's out by staying in the pocket. He is uncomfortable when he isn't running and gunning.

This shitty take that you've been stuck on for weeks now is still shitty.

I still think it's true.

Mahomes is only running for his life now, instead of running to influence the defense. He is purposely staying in the pocket to help our OT's.

I don't see how you can say this is wrong.

Easily.

It's wrong. See? Like that.

He's purposely staying in the pocket because he's missing wide the **** open reads. His accuracy is NOT as good rolling out as it is when he throws from a clean base. You made that shit up in your head because of your fond memories of big plays that he's made rolling to his right.

NFL defenses know he like to roll to his right and are all over that shit now and flow to right along with him.

When he rolls out like he literally cuts the field in half and makes it easy for the defense who now know to simply roll right with him.

He's been largely a pocket passer the past year or so. Our offense has been kind of boringly efficient compared to how mahomes first started out. What's hard to figure out is what the hell happened in Buffalo. This was really the game we started to see the wheels come off and never come back on.

But this dink and dunk pocket pass gameplan is what we were doing beginning of season with lots of success.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Also, GB&#39;s linebackers were awesome. They closed down multiple plays that looked like bigger gains.</p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1457770365359325188?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This was my snap-takeaway too. Mahomes is still slumping, but he's looking better every week. Yes he had one horrible throw yesterday that should have been intercepted. But he's done that once a game for most of his career. Everything is just magnified now because of the slump, and the hole that turnovers and our early-season defense put us in.

But it seemed like the Packers defense was everywhere yesterday, and our receivers didn't just drop balls - but huge drive-killing Johnny Morton-esque 3rd down drops. Hill and Kelce still don't totally look like themselves, and we know the cupboard is bare after those two.

Mahomes is working his way out of the first slump of his pro career, and adjust to a whole new style of play at the same time. It's not going to be an instant fix. But as long as he keeps looking better each week I believe he'll get there.

JakeF and anyone who's buying JakeF's shit, go back and re-watch Mahomes.

Seriously. **** your memory. Go back and actually watch him. Pull up all-time greatest throws highlight videos.

Go ahead. Do it. And then you'll see that most of his best throws came from within the pocket.

Here's one. Go ahead. Count 'em. I haven't even watched this video but im willing to bet most of the throws are from the pocket.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/47zhuTS1YmM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Calm down. JFC

Can't you just talk without freaking out?


Just forget it, there's no point.

What? Who's freaking out? WTH? You calm down, lol.

Anyway, i gave you a homework assignment. Watch the video i posted. Hell, go find your own video if you want.

Scribble down how many big plays he made rolling out and then scribble down how many he made from the pocket.

Your own eyes will debunk your theory.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/Realrclark25?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Realrclark25</a> sounds off on Patrick Mahomes this season ��<br><br>“Patrick Mahomes is broken! … He’s the same as he’s always been, but that’s no longer good enough.” <a href="https://t.co/z22VBInfEF">pic.twitter.com/z22VBInfEF</a></p>&mdash; Get Up (@GetUpESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/GetUpESPN/status/1457777956772728834?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


He’s not wrong

Actually I went and watched all of his TD throws from last year. There were more out of the pocket TD's than "pocket" TD's. And when we are talking about his "pocket" it is not a traditional pocket, it is 10 + yds behind the LOS.

Also pay attention in the red zone alot of our TD passes were designed rollouts.

He needs to stay in the pocket because coordinators figured out not to blitz him and to rush their edges 10-12 yards upfield and contain Mahomes. He is getting better at not floating back, now he needs to go through his progressions and make them pay for playing 2 high safeties 15 -18 yards off the ball...

Did you log them. Because as i watch this video, there's a lot from within the pocket. And yes, i don't mean the traditional pocket as Mahomes drops deep, but it's not rolling out all the time.

A lot of his early stuff was, and some of most memorable plays where, but the bulk of his work is done w/o rolling around.

That dime to Sherman against the Chargers to start his career? Pocket.

The infamous WASP play in the SB.....pocket.

The game winner to Watkins in the AFCC? Pocket.

He's made amazing plays out of the pocket, obviously. But to say that that's WHAT he is, or that Schwartz and Fisher were these great tackles that "matched" Mahomes better or any shit like that just isn't accurate. At all. It's just your fond memories.

I started to then got sidetracked but I can do it later on today. You can view it here if you want.

We ran lot of designed roll outs near the end zone. Yourself and IowaHawkeyeChief are right though teams are taking this away I believe.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v4lKlj-fmQE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I just did the first 4 minutes of your video. Here's what i counted:

9 -passes from inside the tackle box. 11 passes if you count the shuffle passes.

3 - passes while rolling out.

And we're just talking red zone TD's in your video. Let alone his best throws.

Mahomes is a pocket passer. Always has been.

His most memorable plays may be from rolling out, but his production has all mostly come from planting and throwing behind his OL. Your video demonstrates that.

Yep.

Dropping back 15 yards behind the LOS isn't "in the pocket". It's more like behind the pocket.

I'm counting 10 passes from within the pocket and 15 passes from outside/behind the pocket.

hmmm... I am through 3 minutes of the video at the end of the Pats game and I have:

Out of Pocket: 6
In Pocket: 7
Designed Roll outs\Runs: 5

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v4lKlj-fmQE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ok, so i finished the video. Here's what i counted:

TD passes inside the tackle box (traditional drop back pass): 23
Shuffle Passes that went for a TD: 5

TD passes while rolling out: 10

Interestingly, of those 10 roll out pass TD's, i believe all but 1 or 2 were within 15 yards of the end zone. That seemed to be more of a redzone scheme thing than Mahomes actually NEEDING to roll out.

Nearly every pass outside of the redzone came from a traditional drop back pass.

There, i did your homework for you, JakeF. It's your turn to show your work now.

We're defining the pocket very differently.

As far as Mahomes is concerned, drifting back is still in the pocket. He's not rolling out. He's looking downfield, sticking inside the tackle box, not rolling out and striking downfield.

JakeF is arguing that Mahomes has to roll out. He's not rolling out in your video here.

A QB could run all the way from the goalline towards his own endzone and still be considered in the tackle box.

I don't think that's a useful definition of "in the pocket".

That is close to what I got:

Out of the pocket: 15 (14 of those I would define as rolling out)
In the pocket: 23

That = 38 TD's that he threw in 2020

And yes near the end zone they rolled out alot by design.

So I was wrong but still 38% of his TD passes were out of pocket. :D

For the sake of this argument, he's not rolling out. That's the point. He's not making all of these plays by juking defenders and scrambling to his right or left. For the most part, he's taking a deep drop and then stepping UP.

He's not running left and right. He's drifting and then stepping up into his throws while remaining behind his guards.

He was staying calm, keeping his eyes downfield and striking with his feet mostly planted.

He's not running horizontal and cutting the field in half, which is essentially what JakeF is arguing, and is what is implied when people say he's breaking the pocket.

And of the plays he DID do that in, nearly every single one of them was within 10 yards of the the endzone, which were likely designed rollouts.

You're counting shuffle passes as out of the pocket? He stands directly behind center and then tosses inside or out while barely even moving his feet.

He threw 38 TD's last season by the way so you've counted two over from somewhere.

Are you going to disagree that nearly every roll out TD pass was in the redzone and was clearly a designed rollout?

I think your video is evident as **** that Mahomes was NOT rolling out like JakeF claims and that even his "rollout" TD's were by design, not tendency or neccesity.

Yeah I didn't think he was panicking and bailing out of clean pockets near as much last night as the last two games.

I think this is the issue. It feels like where he was "in the pocket" and where this O-line and the adjustments made by defensive coordinators now requires him to be are quite different. I wonder how much dropping miles back just allowed him to see the field the better and how much being asked to be that much closer in has caused some of his struggles.

I think it's a good, interesting point.

I think I only counted 1 of those and I am watching it now. It was against the Jets and he rolled out to the right and shoveled it to Kelce.

Nope no disagreement, most of his TD rollouts were designed. Those that weren't in the red zone it looks like the defense was mostly all man. Definitely not seeing that now.

After watching these 2 things come to mind. He is not getting any man defense any more and he looks so comfortable which leads me to believe he doesn't trust his protection.

I thought he looked excellent last night, aside from missing a few deep shots. Which, again, these aren't your traditional deep passes. He's trying to get the ball out and over two deep safeties.

Yep.

I think Mahomes is close, man. I think he is. I think he's gonna turn it around here soon.

We talking about Mahomes? He looked like shit, dude.

I disagree. Not back to his usual self, but i thought he worked the pocket well at least. He wasn't yipy. He had a couple of misses but overall i thought he made some incremental steps to getting better.

Good point. My friend and I we're discussing that very issue during the game yesterday.

Mahomes in a slump is better than any QB we've had in the last 30 years. I'm not satisfied with his performance, but I have to acknowledge that my expectations are pretty high.

The team scored 13 points. Can't blame that on complacency.

Someone get Pete some copium

He did appear to be making a concerted effort to stay in the pocket. I will give him that.

Other than that he was making terrible reads, terrible decisions, shitty throws, and nearly threw a pick for the 7th straight game. I haven't checked the stats but I'd imagine his completion % was around 50% and YPA in the 4-5 range.

We only scored 13 points all night, too. And that's despite the fact that we had zero turnovers and had one drive set up at the GB 10 yard line.

It covered the 7 point spread though...that's all that mattered,

7th straight? He was playing well the first few weeks apart from pressing on a few third downs because our defense was complete shit. The major setback has been since Buffalo.

I wish Pat would just swim downstream when possible. This account of his decision-making yesterday shows otherwise.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kc-chiefs...193011629.html

It’s the same rut that Alex Smith was in. Like it or not the Super Bowl really figured our offense out.

No reliable running game means you can just play cover 2 and 3 and take away Kelce and Hill and force us to rely on scrubs which isn’t working.

The offense was so much better when we had Kareem, Sammy and Conley. Our WR’s after Tyreek are absolute garbage.

Sorry, he actually did throw at least 1 INT for 7 straight games. Last night would have made it 8 straight games with a pick.

I’ve got faith in Mahomes.

If he’s still pressing like this after the bye week, we might not see him playing comfortably the rest of the year.

He’ll get it figured out

Yeah, that's called being stubborn.....

He wanted to give the deep ball a chance.....get the **** out of here