Like Buehler said - the money came from the bank so it's however you want it. I set up another account just for this money.

I figure if your payroll takes all the money you’re probably ok

I emailed to get some clarification on things - just to make sure I'm spending the money in the right places.

The loan docs I signed say....

"Borrower may apply to Lender for forgiveness of the amount due on this loan in an amount equal to the sum of the following costs incurred by Borrower during the 8-week period beginning on the date of first disbursement of this loan: a. Payroll costs; b. Any payment of interest on covered mortgage obligation (which shall not include any prepayment of or payment of principal on covered mortgage obligation); c. Any payment on a covered rent obligation; and d. Any covered utility payment."

The questions I have are:

1. Are payroll taxes considered part of Payroll costs?
2. Are employee benefits (health/life insurance) considered part of Payroll costs?
3. Since I'm an S-Corp, I personally own both buildings & the business pays me rent to use them - will that cause issues?
4. Would internet expenses & telephone service be considered a covered utility?

I believe the answer to #1 & #2 is yes, they are both considered part of Payroll costs. I believe the answer to #3 is that it won't cause issues. I'm really not sure on #4.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here&#39;s a very different perspective on the small business lending program. It has problems but it&#39;s... working quite well. <a href="https://t.co/mwMvQEw464">https://t.co/mwMvQEw464</a></p>&mdash; Matt Stoller (@matthewstoller) <a href="https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1252617177183772672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mother****ing Shake Shack got $10 mil from the PPP and many actual small businesses couldn't get a dime, myself included. $10 mil is a significant amount of money and could have helped a ton of small businesses/ICs/self employed.

How in the hell did they even get approved for this? And another question is what in the **** is going on with Congress and additional funding? Yesterday morning they were talking about being very close to a deal and there hasn't been an update since.

Shake shack returned the money.

Yes - but companies like that should have never gotten it in the first place.

Thats where we are too, man, what a kick in the balls. They gave 20 million to Ruth's Criss (sp) and some other big fish. In our area, I know 20 small independent auto repair shops, all applied including us, none got it.

1. not an acceptable expense
2. yes an acceptable expense
3. if lease agreement exists, an acceptable expense
4. yes an acceptable expense

Man, I'm sorry guys. It really sucks that these large businesses are getting millions of dollars and it's leaving small businesses out in the cold. I'm hoping they get a second round of money going and this time they limit it to actual small businesses so it can help those people that REALLY need it.

Companies like Shake Shack & Ruth's Chris are stealing this money from people that need it.

Thanks man!

Alot of good that returned money is doing. It doesnt get to be used now.

I with you my friend! It’s infuriating to another level. I heard that the big companies are getting away with this because like in Shake Shacks case each of their stores have around 49 employees. Doesn’t matter that the have 189 stores. I heard this from a small business expert. Not sure how true but it would make since. Total BS if true !!!

I got my EIDL 10k today.

Got ****ed.

I'll be okay.

This kind of shit fueled me to get where I am today.

Additional funds are going to be approved soon. I already reached out to a local bank and will have my application in tomorrow, so that it can be immediately submitted this time. Im not missing out this time around.

I think those are in ford county (dodge city). If they shut that down it won’t be good.

Rain. That's a good one.

Post jokes in the "Makes you laugh" thread, Plow. :D

Did you get any rain? We got drenched overnight.

Prob end of the week before signed into law....$310B for PPP, $60B for EIDLs....didn't close the "Shake Shak" loopholes....uncertain if you need to reapply if you missed PPP the first time around (I suspect no)....

Not going to be enough overall for small business....first tranche of PPP was $349B, and they wrote 1.6M loans, average of about $240K per.....

At that rate they'll write another 1.2M loans.....so about 3m loans total out of 30M small businesses (not to mention some of those loans weren't really to small business)

Crazy times we live in!

Couple quick questions

Since im an IC, do I just put my name under the Business Legal Name portion?

Under the Applicant Ownership portion where it wants you to list all people that own at least 20% of the equity of applicant, do I need to put my information in those boxes since its just me and I've already put my info in?

Im putting in another app with a small local bank because I was an idiot and applied with paypal and I know they will take their sweet ass time and I'll miss out.

Right now it's like a prison love story.

mnuchin also said he thinks this will be the last of the money going into this.

everyone that needs it should get their applications to their banker right now...

Just from anecdotal evidence, I'd say get with a small bank. Seems like larger banks had more issues the first time around than the small banks.

Jesus **** no. We got a sprinkle in the afternoon and ****all else. I was really bummed this morning. Started a pivot. At least that wheat won’t die.

I think it depends on how your business is structured. Definitely get in there and talk to a bank. Like today.

Will do. I have a feeling this money will be gone in just a couple of days.

So let's say I get 100k from the PPP and all of it is forgivable. I spend 101k in eight weeks on payroll.

I get 10k from the EIDL and all of it is forgivable.

A that point only 90k of the PPP becomes forgivable so I have to pay back 10k of the PPP. Am I understanding this correctly?

I thought they rolled EIDL into PPP? In your example you’d get 10k EIDL and 90K PPP all forgiveable.

But I’m not eligible for EIDL so I quit paying attention

No you roll everything EXCEPT 10k advance into the ppp. The 10k advance can’t be used for payroll if you have a ppp .


I would think the ppp and the 10k advance would both be wiped. But that’s just my opinion from reading through this stuff

Yes.
No.
You should make sure the other application hasn’t been submitted. If so and you submit another application you could be signing off on false info where they asked if you could be getting money from ppp already...

all of my clients have been businesses, so not certain on the protocol for ICs...Bank should be able to help you with that....Sorry I couldn't be more help with that...

Yes...don't go through PayPal....go through small banks....they process applications one by one, not in tranches like the big banks

100% this....

smaller banks will process applications one by one.....big banks send them over to the SBA in large tranches....

Definitely go small....you'll get better treatment.

With that said: My concern is that, with all the businesses that applied, but didn't get funded...are they already in the hands of the SBA waiting for the new funding, and if so, is that money already used up....my fear is that anyone who hasn't already applied may not get the shot to do so now.

Obviously, you still have to fight tooth and nail to do so, but everyone should be planning as if it may not occur

I believe the EIDL advance is totally separate from the PPP loan forgiveness calculation. Not certain how they are going to differentiate how you used the advance from the PPP (since they are technically not supposed to be used for the same thing).

We intend to use the EIDL 10k for critical inventory that will turn fast. The PPP is mostly for payroll and a little for utilities and mortgage interest.

From my research, I sure thought that any amount of the EIDL that's forgiven (10k for me) would reduce the amount of the PPP that is eligible to be forgiven. But it's been a week or more since I was researching and it's all one big blur now.

Is there anything that says you have to have a drop in revenue to receive forgiveness?

I know of several businesses out here that are still going 100% that got the loans for payroll. I'm pissed I'm not one of them.

The two aren't tied together per se (not withstanding rolling an EIDL into a PPP Loan)....

For this purpose (where they have not been rolled together, the $10K EIDL grant has nothing to do with how the loan forgiveness is calculated on the PPP

For PPP, and without going into all the specific requirements, as long as they pay their payroll and maintain their headcount (and I'm assuming they did since they are working full-bore), they will get the loan forgiveness...

Decline in revenue is not a requirement.

Separate debate on whether it was shitty that they did that knowing there are more needy businesses out there....

It is shitty, and I can't believe it's allowed.

You were supposed to show a lack of income or something IIRC?

No.

Only requirement is keeping employees and being faster than everyone else.

I'll have to look but i thought there was something on the app about it. I'll see if i can find it.

You will make my day if it's in there.


A business shouldn't benefit if they are still plowing ahead. I am butthurt that I didn't get my tax money back, and I certainly shouldn't be expected to line the pockets of businesses that aren't in need.

Your input throughout this thread has been amazing. Thank you.

So if I made sure I had plenty of reserves to get through a down-time, I shouldn't get help (my tax money back)?

But if I wasn't responsible and didn't have enough reserves to last me even a single month, then I should get help?

And who would I be getting that help from? The other people that were responsible...so they didn't get their tax money back...and instead that money was given to me...since I wasn't responsible and couldn't pay my own bills..??

What I find interesting about all of this, too, is that those of us who are responsible and organized with our finances (and who may not "need" the help) were able to apply for the EIDL and PPP within minutes, and were quickly approved and funded without any issues.

Hmmmm....there just might be something to all of this.

Just imagine if everybody were actually organized enough that they could get in line for these things quickly...a line which may not need to exist in the first place, if only everybody were actually organized enough that...hopefully you get my point.

I realize I'm being a bit snarky and it's not quite that simple for everybody. But to say I shouldn't get mine because I don't "need" it, when the only reason I don't "need" it is because I prepared for such an event, and I'm supposed to just sit back and watch everybody else get theirs (or is it mine?) because they weren't prepared, for whatever reason...well that's a real slap in the junk.

pretty sure you had to attest to the fact that this was going to negatively impact your business

wasnt this program put in place to help pay your employees to stay home and stop the spread?

how do they accomplish that if they are still working?

Read the thread. I agree with you.

By the way, you make and awful lot of assumptions about me in your post. If you actually knew the truth you wouldn’t have posted this.

That’s kind of where I’m at. This is having a delayed effect in the Midwest, as my schedule is thinning out in the future due to that fact.

I would have lied but told a future truth when answering that question.

Thank goodness I took Dru’s advice and have several years of operating money saved. (Yes Dru, YEARS).

What notorious is getting at is that people got it without shutting down.

I'm one of those that got it while being an essential business and continuing to operate, basically as normal. Also had a few months of operating expenses to fall back on. We also moved the higher risk employees home to work remotely.

Yes, my business is continuing to operate as normal. We have 900ish customers in 47 states - some of which are essential, some of which are not - most of which are small businesses. Most have closed their doors and we are handling their calls because they can operate, but can't be in the office - we have a lot of customers that are dealing with Covid-19 cleanups for people and companies.

The hardship we'll see will not be with the work we are doing now, but when my customers are trying to pay their bills. In order to pay their bills, they are going to have to collect from customers that don't have jobs, which will delay everything including them paying their bill to us. This money gives us the chance to keep our employees paid & working during the delays in collecting that are sure to follow.

Yeah. Me too. And to be fair to me, mine was basically nothing. I don't pay myself a ton of payroll and I don't have anyone else on MY staff (Dad has one guy and a couple part timers).

But here's the thing, if I don't get it, even as little as it is, and my neighbors do, and then get it forgiven, their margins improve and mine don't. My margins are ass as it stands so I have a fiduciary responsibility to do what I can to improve them, above and beyond the competitive environment.

So went to my small bank and applied on Friday to get app in early. Bank called me just about 20 minutes ago saying my PPP loan papers are ready to sign. Do you all think that means I was approved or that they need me to sign these papers so they can send to SBA?

That means you are approved. Congratulations! You should be funded within 72 hours of signing.

Glad to see a lot more of you guys getting this money instead of the big corporations and lawyer firms etc.:thumb:


Hopefully it helps you make it through this time and you get your shot at being a big corporation.

Sweet ass! May have it quick since I opened an account at the bank.

The form we had to fill out made us initial next to this:

"Current economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to support the ongoing operations of the Applicant."

That's it though.

**** Chase Bank!!

Ok, I have had a 15 year business relationship with Chase bank.

I have my building loan with them (2 million dollars), I have both my business accounts, personal, 2nd mortgage (cabin), Wifes auto loan, business line of credit, Credit card processing. So literally like 8 accounts with them.

I applied on April 3rd within the first hour of it opening, was told I could only get in the Que. On April 7th was told to go ahead and fill out the application, again in the first hour of it opening.
3 days after the first round ran OUT of money was told sorry but they did get 300,000 loans approved, just not mine.
However I could remain in the "process" in case there was a second round of funding, which of course I did.

In the meantime I contacted a smaller bank, First National Bank of Omaha, which a few of my business friends had used and DID receive funding on the first round.

They were super responsive and helpful, told me to go ahead and open a business checking account and apply for the PPP loan so if there was a second round I would be ready and they would as well.

As we all know, the second round opened up Monday. Tuesday morning a received a call from them saying I had been approved. I received my "Docusign" loan papers today (Thursday) and have completed them. Should be funded within 72 hours.

Without exaggeration, these funds will probably save my business and I was in pretty good shape as far as reserve funds though they were drying up quickly.

I still havent heard anything from Chase other than my loan was submitted to the SBA and they will let me know. The email literally says DONT call or Email us!

So, what else is there to say other than Chase does NOT value its small business' and are willing to sacrifice them in order to take care of their larger customers, many of whom did NOT need the help.

I get it, they were just doing what they felt was best for their business. Well now I will be doing what I feel is best for mine. Good bye Chase Bank!

List of businesses
 

How about a list of businesses or if a contractor trades. I probably don’t need something in everyone’s line of work but if I do and know where to go I would be more than willing to direct my business in your directions to help out if I can.

If we can get that on here I will start picking options from that list as priority

Where do you live?

Glad to hear you got it and your business gets to keep chugging along. I absolutely hate hearing about these small businesses that are closing up because they didn't get their funding.

Sucks that Chase let you down, but you might have a good future with this small bank that will actually care about your business. I've got a similar issue on our building note with our old, bigger bank that forced us to move to the bank we're at now.

Extremely happy about where we're at now.

Im so glad I went the small bank route. Those big banks can suck a fat one. ****ing LA Lakers got a PPP loan lol. How does that happen.

Great idea. Might double check with mods to make sure they don't care.

No issues at all from my perspective (though I'd probably suggest a new thread for it for visibility).

The one minor caveat is that we have some ****ing idiots around here, so if you're the type to get into pissing matches with people on here, think twice about putting your business out there for someone to retaliate against.

KCMO but I’m anywhere from Airport to OPKS all time

Not looking to get into all that just seeing if way to help folks out. I don’t post much just read mostly. I don’t want to get anyone more pain than they already are bearing

Yep thats the big issue. Idiots that take this site too serious.

Btw, anyone in eaatern Kansas to central MO that hasn't had their roof looked at in the last few years and wants/needs a new roof let me know. Most likely you have hail damage and we can get your insurance company to foot a large portion of the bill.

Id even donate $100 to CP for each job I get because of CP.

Also if you don't live in the specified area, but know someone that does ill give ya $100 for each job you could help me get.

I'm in a somewhat similar situation, albeit with different account numbers, etc. I've business banked with BOA for 12 years, wife and I have our personal accounts there, multiple CC's, car loan history, etc. I applied for my business day 2 (April 4). It's been horrible ever since.

Obviously didn't get funded first go round. Have strongly considered pulling my app and going to a different small local bank, but afraid that might mess up the process if I'm already in the SBA system. Which I have no way of knowing bc BOA doesn't answer any, and I mean any, questions when inquiring. Have been told my application is accepted by BOA for weeks, got email that it was submitted to SBA finally on Monday. Crickets again ever since. I read they sent a batch of like 175,000 applications at once on Monday. There's literally no way of knowing if you in the queue, if they actually reviewed your numbers/amounts on the app, etc. Crossing my fingers that since I'm supposedly submitted that I will actually be funded this 2nd round. And I'm anxiously awaiting the money being deposited so that I can turn around and tell BOA to suck my ass. No idea other than convenience that it's basically next door for why I've stayed with them so long.

Got mine done with hail damage a few years ago but will keep an eye out for anyone needing one. Hopefully your doing good I have a friend in that biz and he been busier than ever with folks home all time now noticing things on their house

I have a couple buddies that still work for the company I started with and the corporate office has been paying for a lead service to call and do the prospecting and since they had that big hail storm up around Raymore a few weeks back theyve been keeping busy.

What's good and bad about the company I work for is that we don't really do any type of cold prospecting. My boss is pretty well know ans highly regarded, so we stay busy. It's just me and him, so not many mouths to feed, but recently the calls have slowed way down and Icant knock even if I wanted to.

I wouldnt wait on BOA, go to a small bank ASAP. I have heard that Wells Fargo BOA and Chase have all let their smaller customers hanging.
I will be funded by the time I hear from Chase. I was worried about the same thing and also thought, I was in on the first day, first hour of the opening. Surely Chase will come through before this other bank.
It wasnt even close as previously stated.
Look, I know how much this probably means to you, checking for Emails from the bank every five minutes.
Find out which small bank in your area is having success and run to them. It wont mess up the status of your loan with BOA and whomever gets it first.

This is to important not to. Good luck fellow Chief fan!

Thanks Mr. Plow, I appreciate it buddy.

Chase used to be good, I knew my Banker on a first name basis for years. After he left it has been a revolving door for the last 5-6 years. I have never even met the new lady that I was dealing with.
The first thing I asked the guy at the new bank was how long he had been there, 27 years. Since we are locked down and the bank lobby is not open, he sent a guy to my shop with the paperwork to open a new account within 30 minutes of our initial conversation.
Also, he personally called me to tell me that my PPP had been approved (not an Email). I have been very impressed with the level of service so far. Grateful I made the decision not to wait on Chase.

This place, Chiefsplanet, can be pretty ****ed up at times (lol) but this thread strangely was helpful by so many people that Id like to say Thanks to all that have posted. I received a bunch of good info here and I hope my situation can help others as well.

GO CHIEFS!!!

my local bank is the same way. old banker left and the new guys suck ass

Ah, I completely forgot about the ole Skip rule. Yea, probably not as good of an idea as I initially thought.

My parents originally bought this business back in 96. My dad sold it to me in Jan. of 2019. The note on my building was under my dad's name & I was a secondary on it. When I was making the purchase, we wanted to put the note under my name, with my dad as secondary. Same people are responsible, just in a different order. Our old bank, which we'd been with for 20+ years said they wouldn't do it. No reason why. Just flat out no.

So, we asked the banker who did the original mortgage on the building at the old bank who had moved to this smaller bank to do it. He was at our office that afternoon with the paperwork to get it done. Pulled all of our business accounts from old bank the next week and I took all of my personal from them as well.

I think it could still work, but it may be more of things like:

Hi, I'm DaFace. I do market research for a living, so if you need a customer survey, product testing with focus groups, or help developing a strategic plan, shoot me a PM.

...rather than posting websites and specific company names.

We just had $1000 pop into our commercial real estate mgt checking account.

Reads SBA. in the notes

We only claimed one employee.

So it appears the EIDL grant was granted.

No phone call, no email, no paper notice. Nothing.

Got confirmation today and signed loan docs from Wells Fargo no less. Feel like I won the lottery with them. Just like the others with big banks WF has Ben unbelievably terrible to work with. Been with them for 21 years and as soon as I’m finished with the loan process and the forgiveness I’m switching to a small bank.

Went and signed my loan papers today. It has the funding date as April 28th lol, so it was approved like a day or 2 after I applied.

Been very busy at work, so hadn't had time to post much in past week or so....Hope all is going well with everyone. Nice to see things starting to loosen up a little bit, but we're not out of the woods by any stretch...Hang in there guys!

I applied for the EIDL a month ago and haven't heard anything. $1,000 showed up in my bank acct yesterday.