This. Shot .308 in the military, shoot 30-06 now, but the ballistics on some of these rounds or friends are buying are just amazing.

Look-up the ballistics of a .270 and I bet you get a chubby.

Not a fan. I've shot them several times. Don't care for the trigger or the ergonomics. But in fairness, one of my friends had one and loved it. And was dead on accurate with it as well. ****er (barely) outshot me and my P365, which annoyed me to no end.

Ballistics are great on it, terminal performance excellent. Great whitetail round and coyote as well

Like the .270, it's very sexy...

Interesting. Yeah, I’ve been carrying the P365 for two years now. I really do like it. But, yeah, it’s the accuracy and capacity that intrigues me. My buddy bought one and sent me a video of him consistently hitting a steel target from 50+ yards out. I guess I should drive the three hours and pay him a visit. Lol

That guy was the only person I ever saw who shot that well with one, though. We were both working at a gun store with a range, so he did shoot it regularly.

But personally, there are other Springfields I like better. I used to own an XDm and really liked it - sold it and upgraded to my CZ when I got my CCL because it took a 19 round mag and as a result the grip was really long and it printed when I was wearing a t-shirt. But it was a good shooter. I really like their new Echelon as well.

Oh man, I shot an Echelon a few weeks ago. I really liked it. I just get bored easily and I’m thinking about switching up my EDC. Just not sure what I want to go with.

I was amazed by how much I liked the Echelon. Great gun with an excellent trigger out of the box. Unfortunately the ones we were sent had 10 round mags; otherwise I probably would have bought one on the spot.

I have quite a few 700 classics through the years sold most off but kept one chambered in .300 cal Weatherby Mag .280 Rem .35 whelan. I sold off the rest because I just didn, n't shoot them. There for a while when I got the Christmas bonus it was off to Blarestown for that year's Classic caliber 700.

I loved the straight combed stocks over Monte Carlo BDLs

The yearly runs of 700 classics caliber and year introduced.
https://www.700rifle.com/threads/700...troduced.2740/

The rifle
https://image.invaluable.com/housePh...L169117526.jpg

Any way they can make a phone that is a gun, also? That way I have a deadly weapon but it doesn't take much pocket space.

John Wall would smile dollar bils when I walked in..

Looking at a Vortex Viper HST; 6-24 w/ SFP

https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-vipe...icle-EBR-1~MOA

Anybody have any experience with the Viper? I'm trying to figure out why this costs half what some of the high end ones do and the best I can figure is that the really spendy ones are going to be a little better in low light.

Any thoughts?

Did your parents have any kids that lived?

ROFL

How far out will you be shooting?


They are good scopes, but glass is not as clear as some others. One you start pushing out, you go from looking at 2160P to 720P. Can still get it done, but it’s definitely not going to be the 4K you get the whole time with higher prices.

You get the features, just not high end glass.

I use a few viper scopes on guns I run to 700 or so, will use them to 1000 if I absolutely want to. I really like the scopes, but typically after 7 I go up to better glass on my scopes.

I have a couple. Pretty good scopes for the price, hold zero as well as most higher end scopes, good features, great warranty, but the glass is a bit cheaper, so beyond 600 yds you will start to notice.

I believe that the Viper series gets Japanese glass, so it’s an upgrade over the rest of their cheaper scopes.

Probably nothing over 300 yards until we get a horseback hunt put together someday but I'll need to get a lot more shots down range before I'm good enough for 1,000 yards money shots. Going to put it on my 7mm rem mag.

Buddy of mine can get outfitter pricing on it and it's out the door for $500. Seems a no brainer at that price but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything since it was released about 10 years ago.

Actually no. My mom had 4 miscarriages. I was the only one who made it. The gift of god.

I loved that place and John would give you a fair price. Enjoy that 700 Classic its a great rifle.

For what you are wanting, definitely worth the price. Especially for hunting, it will do everything you need it to do.

Yeah - it's a pure hunting scope. If I wanted a long-range target scope I'd look for a FFP setup. Ultimately I'm a good shot but by no means a great one; I'm far away from needing to worry about hitting the steel at 1,000 yards...

Man those ATN electronic scopes are sexy but seems like the Gen 5 is still having some real firmware problems and that's the last thing I'd want to deal with out in the field. That technology is still awfully new so I think I'll just stand down on one for now.

Maybe I'll use some big expensive hunt in Alaska or Russia as an excuse for one someday...

God was cruel to your folks.

Damn kinda harsh

I've had good luck with Vortex also. Hard to beat their warranty and their customer service is top notch. Another brand I'll throw out to check in to is Burris. Have been happy with their Fullfield line and recently purchased one of their Veracity's. Working on a couple of AR builds for some night hunting for coyotes. I've settled on this https://www.burrisoptics.com/thermal-optics/btc35-v2 Like the idea with the adapters to put in on any of my scopes and also doubles as a thermal monocular.

One of the Ars I'm thinking about listed above is a LR 308 using this https://www.nosler.com/308-wincheste...mmunition.html

Question I have is about twist rate for this round. Most AR 10 uppers and readily available barrels have a 1 in 10. I'm thinking with the weight and speed I would need maybe a 1 in 12 twist. The online twist calculators aren't much help. Hard to find twist readily available but plenty of custom barrel makers to do so. Appreciate any thoughts and opinions on my little dilemma.

Yeah, I've been a fan of Vortex for over a decade now. Started with a Crossfire, traded it in for a Diamondback. Bought another Diamondback, then traded that one in for a Viper about a year later. Think I have two Diamondbacks and two Vipers now. Pretty good scopes for the money, never had any issues of any kind with any of them.


I had a couple Burris scopes way back; they're pretty good budget scopes, imo.


Off and on I've thought about getting night scopes. But haven't been able to justify the cost vs. how much I'd probably use them. Working on getting a suppressor for my p-dog gun (hopefully i won't have to build another bullet for it), and might get another for my M&P that has a threaded barrel and my PCC.

Always more things on the list of 'need to have' than $$$, lol.

Yeah the cost of thermal scopes is what steered me towards the clip-ons like the Burris or the AGM Rattler. I liked the whole of idea of clipping it to any scope and turning it in to a thermal sight and it doubling as a monocular for scanning. Chose the Burris over the AGM simply didn't like the buttons being on top like the Rattler. Looked to be clumsy to use when wearing winter gloves. Like you though my list of wants right now far outweigh the means but one can dream and set goals..lol...Thanks for the input!

ask Larue. No one knows more than they do

Thanks for the heads up about Larue. I've reached out to them along with Lilja, Mos-Tek barrel makers. Will also contact Nosler directly and see what they say about the best twist and barrel length for this round in an AR. Thanks again!

If you are doing 110 grain, go with 1-12 twist. That grain will not do as well with 1-10

Would you go 1-15 if it was available? Still waiting to hear back from Nosler and 1 of the barrel makers. Thanks for the info PR.

I’d be interested in what you find out

I personally wouldn’t go that slow, I don’t think it would add much benefit, if any at all. Berger has a twist rate calculator you can play with, see what it says and make your own decision. From my experience, sometimes bullets do things that just doesn’t really make sense. Bullets that are supposed to twist fast run better with a little slower.


https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

So i just "Girl Mathed" this shit out of it.

Espresso machine blew up. It was going to cost me $100 in parts to repair it (and the water inside it may have killed the board anyway). Wife said we should just replace it. Long story short, after a handful of options I floated her way, she decided that she needs the $1,000 thing that makes all the drinks automatically and can replace the coffee maker and what not...

Um...okay.

"Well I'd say that means I get my $500 scope, no?"

{silence}

So yeah, that scope got ordered this morning...

Is this how government works?

https://i.giphy.com/ptp5XpJI11qHVh1jQ5.webp

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

There's more calculators out there but I used these 2(Thanks for the link PR). I came up with an average of specific gravity of about 3.0 for 1 in 12 twist. 1 in 15 average was 2.0 with the Berger being at 1.66, marginal. After talking to Nosler and their test barrel maker for 110 grain, H-S Precision, and wanting to shoot up to 125 grains, specifically Nosler's ballistic tip hunting ammo, in a 20" barrel I've decided on the 1 in 12. Consensus was it would give me more room to load similar rounds and wouldn't pigeon hole this particular upper to just one type of ammo. Now just have to pick a barrel maker. Thank you all who contributed to helping me solve my little dilemma :p

What rifle scopes do you all use and recommend?
I have looked at several, online. I am trying to have an idea of what I want narrowed down before I go and start looking through several to make my final decision.
I am trying to stay under $450.
I have been looking at Zero Tech and Riton either a 3-18x50 or a 4-20x56.

I have a Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x20 on my reach-out-and-touch-you AR. Nice adjustable magnification scope. At $550 (current price on midwayusa) it's a bit above your price range, but it's a good quality scope for the money.

Do any of you have muzzle loaders?
By chance have an Accura MR-X or LR-X.

I inherited some black powder pistols, but won't sell them because they were Dad's. Good hunting.

https://www.sigsauer.com/p365-nitron-micro-compact.html

I've been eyeballing one of these for a while now. Anybody own one? Positives/negatives? For comparison sake i own an MP Sheild 9mm for a CC handgun.

P365 is one of the best CCW options available. The Nitron is about the smallest of the different P365 options, and only has 10+1 capacity. Some of the other 365 options have higher capacity. But the Nitron is very compact and super reliable. Similar in size and function to a Glock 43. The trigger is a bit clunky though. And the Nitron doesn't have any optic slide. That's about the only criticism.

Spend a hundred more and get the X or XL. Size difference is negligible, but mag capacity is 12 and the trigger is much better. I carry an XL and IMO it is the best carry gun available in terms of size, weight, capacity, trigger, price and quality, and I've shot them all. I've raved about it many times in this thread.

I kind of want something smaller than my Shield. Maybe it's the holster, but i find concealed carry to be uncomfortable and inconvenient except in the winter when you have on a heavy coat or layers of clothing.

My usual ccw is a S&W M&P Shield. After trying several different holsters, I use a N8Tactical tuckable holster with it most days, for comfortability.

Have you shot a lot of smaller pieces? Because the smaller the gun gets the harder it is to work with. Just something to keep in mind.

There are several handguns that are smaller than the Shield to choose from, but I would strongly advise that you spend some time/$$$ shooting them. As much as possible before buying.


I had an LCP for a few years, but after more than a hundred range sessions I still had trouble with consistency/accuracy. i could shoot it accurately but gave up a lot of speed. Or, I could shoot it quickly and gave up a lot of accuracy.

I had the same issues with a S&W snubnose, and a couple other subcompacts like the Beretta Pico.


I finally gave up and went with a LC9, which is a little bigger than an LCP but a smidge smaller than a Shield. That I can shoot both quickly and accurately enough for me to feel comfortable carrying it. Helps that it's a Ruger, so good reliability and great customer service (though I've never had a problem with it).


But you need to put you hands on as many subcompacts as you can, and shoot them rigorously, before depending on one for carry purposes, imho.

The right holster makes all the difference. I use a Vedder Lighttuck IWB, which is model-specific molded kydex with a metal belt clip. The holster retains and the clip won't ever break. Doesn't print at all unless your shirt is too tight. If you aren't using a belt, a good belly band will suffice, although it is more difficult to draw and reholster.

I have one pistol smaller than the XL - a Ruger LC9s. While I do trust it, it's easily the crappiest gun I own. It's what I carry if I'm going somewhere that I'll have to leave it in the car. I almost never carry it. The smaller the pistol, the worse the quality and performance; that's just the way it is. But if your heart is set on something tiny, I guess that would be my recommendation. It's a better alternative than harsh language.

Once i get around to buying I'll go see if my local indoor range will let you sample their options. I'd hate to buy a brand new gun and not like it. I've done that before with a used one and thankfully i was able to flip it in my favor when FB was full of gun groups.

If it's like the place I worked, they should have a rental counter. You can rent one gun, put a few rounds through it, and then go back and get something else.

One thing to keep in mind is that range guns are typically abused like rented mules, especially the more popular models. Assume that they're not going to be cleaned enough, are poorly maintained, and also that they're often handled by morons. That can take a toll on even the best made guns.

My local range is relatively new (I think it opened over the summer) so hopefully their rental inventory isn't beat to shit.

It doesn't take anywhere near that long. Most businesses are understaffed these days, and the managers of my store were far more concerned with sales than maintaining rental guns. I get it, but still, it's a problem. And if your local range is a part of a chain, they'll also have to deal with stupid, time-consuming edicts that come down from the chimps at corporate, and of course there's all the government shit to content with.

And you wouldn't believe some of stupid shit I've seen people do to guns.

100%.


Which is why I tend to take second looks at rental guns that performed well anyway. If they can put up with the kinds of abuse Frazod listed and still perform reliably through a couple mags, they're probably pretty good machines.

One thing I'll say about Glocks is that they're durable as ****. They're the AKs of handguns. I don't ever recall anybody breaking any of the Glock rentals, and we had a lot of them.

I have a 365 XL. I love it. I won't go any smaller though. I have big hands. I tried a 365 and couldn't get all my fingers on the grip. While I think I could operate it reliably, I'd be giving up a lot of stability for a tiny bit of size.

I think something on them breaks regularly. Spring maybe? I don't remember. But yeah. The things go bang.

Yah, Glocks are amazingly reliable. Unless you shoot reloads. Then they can jam.



I also have found M&Ps to be extremely reliable, and so far (I have 4 M&Ps including my Shield) all of them will happily eat any/all of my reloads.



edit: and there are other guns out there that can be basically as reliable as a glock of a M&P as well. You just have to do a little research. And shoot as many of them as you can until you find the one that fits your hands as well as possible.

The one time i shot there that place had like 10 workers for it being no bigger than a bowling alley. The previous owners were just a couple of boomers who couldn't maintain stock and could order whatever you wanted, but these guys (so far) seem to be running a well oiled machine.

The the chances of you being in good hands are much better.

I had a glock 43 for a while. I didn't really mean to buy it but my friend gave it to me for collateral for a $500 loan. Around the time i bought my house i sold it to my dad for what i paid for it. I probably should have kept it but at that time i needed the $500 more than the gun.

Does your Viper have/come with locking caps on the windage, elevation, and parallax?

Late Christmas, early birthday present to myself.

https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/...in-soft-rubber

<a href="https://ibb.co/WDR0jk0"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/rbX3Nx3/taurus-m44.jpg" alt="taurus-m44" border="0"></a>

I love a good wheel gun. My wife's everday carry is a revolver. She trains with it the most because that's what she grew up shooting and feels the most comfortable with.

I had a Taurus revolver - a little 5-shot .38. It wasn't a bad little gun, and I shot surprisingly well with it.

I have a Taurus PT-101 .40 caliber based on the Beretta 96 platform.

I can't shoot it for shit but my buddy's a decent shot with it so I can't blame the gun. Had it for probably 10 years and have put maybe 500 rounds through it so I have nobody to blame but myself. The gun itself seems like a good gun. Taurus actually made a couple improvements on the Beretta blueprint, IMO (the position of the safety/de-cocker on the Beretta is awful; much better spot on the Taurus). Taurus seems to have found its footing over the last 20 years or so.

I learned on my Ruger MK-II target pistol and then 'graduated' to a Sig P320 9mm. So I probably just let the gun shoot me a little more than I should after getting used to much easier shooting guns.

A sportier trigger wouldn't hurt. There's a little more play in the Taurus than I'm a huge fan of. It's similar to my Ruger .375 revolver - the double action just leaves a lot of empty pull. I'm a MUCH better shot when I manually pull the hammer back with that gun than I am when I'm trying to 'find' when it goes bang.

Ultimately I just need a better base. My handgun skills have atrophied a ton through my 30s. Just not enough range time.

No. But mine is around 8 years old I think.

While modern Taurus pistols aren't that bad, the older ones are, and .40 isn't the best choice when it comes to caliber. Almost all .40s are 9mm frames with .40 barrels, so right off the bat the gun is going to be snappier than it should be. And a good trigger with a crisp reset is extremely important, and older Taurus pistols simply don't have them. Were I you, I'd trade that old .40 for a new 9mm. If you want more stopping power, get a 10mm. Same sized round, but they are designed from the frame up to be 10mm, and they have better stopping power than a .45. They are a little pricey, though, and ammo can be harder to find (and is much more expensive as well).

But the most important thing when it comes to pistol shooting, whether you have a good trigger or bad, is to make sure that when you pull the trigger, you just move your finger, not your hand. It is the absolute number one reason people miss. If you're right-handed, and move your hand, you'll miss low left (or low right if you're left-handed).

Yeah, back when I could shoot, I'd load the gun with those blank rounds (not an actual 'blank' but just a plastic block looking thing that kept the pin from being damaged by a dry fire) and balance a nickel on the barrel. If I could pull the trigger without the nickel falling off, my technique was sound.

Like I said - too much time away. Haven't done that for years.

It's hard to beat the reliability of a wheel gun and I've always wanted a .44 Mag, blame Dirty Harry for that one. Yea, I know his was a S&W, don't care I like Taurus' revolvers. This one isn't intended for CCW, it's too big. I might open carry when I'm back in the woods somewhere but not in public. This is more of a having fun at the range, blowing up snapping turtles at the river, sort of gun.
For EDC I have a S&W Airweight .38 special with Crimson Trace grips. It's a handy little 5 shooter that is small enough to throw in my jacket pocket and go.
Now I just need to come up with a holster for my new "hand cannon". :D

That is how my Dad taught me to shoot rifles back in the day, and it's training that will stick with you when it comes to hand guns as well.

I'm a little different in that i prefer a mid-sized for CC. I have an M&P 2.0 Metal, which is bigger and heavier than most would recomment for an every day carry. This gun is like an extension of my hand though. I've loved the M&P since the very first time i shot it.17+1 and i carry a spare mag at 4/5 o'clock for easy reload. I've never needed to use it and hope i never do but i'm not going to be pinned down in some restaurant or mall with only 10(ish) rounds to defend myself.

I use a Falco leather custom holster. They make them fit any model with whatever attachments you want and they are freaking fantastic. Heavy duty, light-weight leather with a tank of a clip. Super durable and comfortable.

https://i.ibb.co/Zg7yPXj/IMG-3185.jpg

Sort of off subject but sort of not.

Lets talk hearing protection.

I've got a couple pair of ear muffs for hearing protection but I've been looking at these:

https://goaxil.com/pages/gsextreme?u...TSvuuz#product

Less bulky and I like that you don't have to take them out to have a conversation, plus they are Blue Tooth compatible so I can listen to my metal music while shredding targets.

Anyone have experience with these? Other brands?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019119041?pid=509109

Too good a deal to pass up. Has most everything I wanted to get started reloading my 22 Hornet(except dies) along with several other calibers I want to reload. Now I gotta finish my gun room :)