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DeepSouth 05-17-2018 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 13559804)
Can anyone point to many moves by Moore that have worked out in recent years? It seems to me that anytime he does something, the exact opposite turns out to have been a better choice.

One of the best trades Moore ever made was;
On July 20, 2012, Guthrie was traded to the Royals for left-handed starter Jonathan Sánchez.
2012 through 2014, Guthrie may have been the best starting pitcher the Royals had.

Coach 05-17-2018 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 13559852)
Those are alright I suppose, but to me the failures far outweigh the successes.

- Giving away Jose Martinez for nothing.
-Not trading Duffy
- Signing Gordon and Kennedy
- Horrible in the draft

I really hope I'm wrong, but despite having 4 top 40 picks I have absolutely no faith in any substance coming from this draft. I also have little faith in getting any substantial return at the trade deadline.

The part in bold is the one that really pisses me off the most. How could he think that Martinez wasn't going to amount much in the MLB, considering he has put up solid numbers in Omaha and in the minors?

OKchiefs 05-18-2018 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13560423)
The part in bold is the one that really pisses me off the most. How could he think that Martinez wasn't going to amount much in the MLB, considering he has put up solid numbers in Omaha and in the minors?

More than solid, I believe he had one of the best seasons ever in that league.

duncan_idaho 05-18-2018 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13560423)
The part in bold is the one that really pisses me off the most. How could he think that Martinez wasn't going to amount much in the MLB, considering he has put up solid numbers in Omaha and in the minors?


Context makes it easier to understand.

He was in an independent league in 2014. 2015, he has a great season at Omaha and hit for a high average, but without a lot of power. He was a 6-6 guy who can only play an adequate 1B and who had not shown the power expected of a 1B.

He started the 2016 season in Kansas City’s system and had a large drop off (.298/.356/.433) before they traded him.

He got to St. Louis, changed his swing to get more loft on the ball, started hitting juices baseballs full time, and maybe found some juice himself. (Classic profile of a guy who dopes to make sure his career doesn’t end).

It still was a mistake - this organization is too biased against players who don’t fit the classic ball player mold - but is not like they traded him off the .384 season he had in 2015. He backed it up with 150 ABs of AAAA-looking “meh” in 2016 before the deal.

KChiefs1 05-18-2018 03:54 PM

Mahomes throwing out the first pitch tonight.

BWillie 05-18-2018 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 13560332)
You spelled Johnson County wrong.

There is a much higher percentage of Royals fans in Johnson County versus any Missouri counties in the KC metro. Waaay more Cards fans IMMEDIATELY once you get to the Missouri side.

BWillie 05-18-2018 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 13561450)
Mahomes throwing out the first pitch tonight.

Chiefs QB Mahomes blowns arm out during first pitch.

Chiefs sign veteran Matt Cassell to 1-year deal

Titty Meat 05-18-2018 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 13561460)
There is a much higher percentage of Royals fans in Johnson County versus any Missouri counties in the KC metro. Waaay more Cards fans IMMEDIATELY once you get to the Missouri side.

Maybe because St Louis is in Missouri?

duncan_idaho 05-18-2018 08:15 PM

*** Official 2018 Royals Repository ***
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 13561460)
There is a much higher percentage of Royals fans in Johnson County versus any Missouri counties in the KC metro. Waaay more Cards fans IMMEDIATELY once you get to the Missouri side.

Edit: little sloshed after a long week. Don’t need to bring state line bs into this fine thread.

Coach 05-18-2018 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 13560684)
Context makes it easier to understand.

He was in an independent league in 2014. 2015, he has a great season at Omaha and hit for a high average, but without a lot of power. He was a 6-6 guy who can only play an adequate 1B and who had not shown the power expected of a 1B.

He started the 2016 season in Kansas City’s system and had a large drop off (.298/.356/.433) before they traded him.

He got to St. Louis, changed his swing to get more loft on the ball, started hitting juices baseballs full time, and maybe found some juice himself. (Classic profile of a guy who dopes to make sure his career doesn’t end).

It still was a mistake - this organization is too biased against players who don’t fit the classic ball player mold - but is not like they traded him off the .384 season he had in 2015. He backed it up with 150 ABs of AAAA-looking “meh” in 2016 before the deal.

But 150 AB's of AAA (or AAAA) is too small of a sample size to truly evaluate a player after having a .384 season. Even finishing at .298/.356/.433 after having a great 2015 season, (which is probably his normal type of a slash line), is still an improvement over some players that is currently on the Royals roster.

Duda is .256/.317/.398/.716 and the Royals are paying him $3.5 million.
Cuthbert is .194/.282/.301/.583
Almonte is .205/.256/.342/.599

Hell, even Orlando is bad as .191/.224/.234/.459

All that, while Martinez is slashing .304/.382.459/.842, and is only making a paltry $560,400.

Sometimes it's just frustrating to see that some players who does well in the minors, doesn't get rewarded (like Martinez) as they should have (like Whit Merrifield, who I been pounding the table on for quite some time). The Royals could have easily able to cut payroll, and still get equal or better performance, instead of signing Lucas Duda.

And they're too biased on trying to get power hitters, whereas they need to start finding players who has a high contact rate and can utilize the whole field.

duncan_idaho 05-18-2018 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13561748)
But 150 AB's of AAA (or AAAA) is too small of a sample size to truly evaluate a player after having a .384 season. Even finishing at .298/.356/.433 after having a great 2015 season, (which is probably his normal type of a slash line), is still an improvement over some players that is currently on the Royals roster.

Duda is .256/.317/.398/.716 and the Royals are paying him $3.5 million.
Cuthbert is .194/.282/.301/.583
Almonte is .205/.256/.342/.599

Hell, even Orlando is bad as .191/.224/.234/.459

All that, while Martinez is slashing .304/.382.459/.842, and is only making a paltry $560,400.

Sometimes it's just frustrating to see that some players who does well in the minors, doesn't get rewarded (like Martinez) as they should have (like Whit Merrifield, who I been pounding the table on for quite some time). The Royals could have easily able to cut payroll, and still get equal or better performance, instead of signing Lucas Duda.

And they're too biased on trying to get power hitters, whereas they need to start finding players who has a high contact rate and can utilize the whole field.


I think the bias is in trying to get guys who are too much of a classic mold more than anything else.

It was a mistake, no doubt. They didn’t get much for him and didn’t HAVE to move him.

Just was providing a little context.

dlphg9 05-18-2018 09:19 PM

Dayton is a dipshit who lucked into a WS

Chiefspants 05-18-2018 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlphg9 (Post 13561820)
Dayton is a dipshit who lucked into a WS

Nah. He had a clear plan, and it worked. Where he got lucky was that his bounce back, grit and high character acquisitions, (Wade Davis, Morales, Chris Young, Edinson) all came together to kickass in the same year. These types of signings, who more than often flame out for Moore (and Wade even did as a starter) all boosted his homegrown Latin American and Draft heavy team to the promised land.

His core was definitely a product of his scouting and plan of action, however. Now, whether he can adjust to the modern rules of the game remains to be seen, and with his performance so far, the leash needs to be shortening.

BigCatDaddy 05-18-2018 10:03 PM

The GM that helped fast track us to a WS title was Scott Pioli.

Bufkin 05-18-2018 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 13560143)
And as for deadline returns ... they’ll get some useful pieces but will need more of a scouting win type to really make it pay off.

Teams just don’t pay for rentals like they used to. Prospects are too valued now. Herrera should fetch a fringe 100 prospect type. That can boom into much more, quickly.

Seuly Matias is a great example of that type of guy. He made one top 100 coming into this year and is almost assuredly going to be on all of them next time around.

Can the same be said for Khalil Lee? I’m a huge fan of this kid but haven’t heard much on him since the off-season.


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