At the time of this discussion, I couldn't remember the source but I was reminded this morning. I know that most people don't read the Star Wars comics but they are/were part of canon:

https://makingstarwars.net/2020/02/p...ins-backstory/

In the Darth Plagueis novel from around that time it was inferred that she could be a problem for Darth Sidious. After the show was canceled, one of the last Dark Horse Star Wars comics Son of Dathomir hinted at some of this story. In the third issue, Talzin reveals that Sidious betrayed her and that Maul is in fact her son.

Long ago, Sidious came to me on Dathomir. We exchanged secret wisdom–mingled Dark Side abilities with Nightsister magicks.

He promised to make me his right hand, but instead he stole what was most dear to me… My own flesh and blood. My son!

---

Of course, this reveal doesn't make RoS any better (or any worse, for that matter) but it does show that Sith and Dark Siders did have affection for their offspring.

We already discussed this. Talzin was a Nightsister when she had kids. She initially fought against the Sith. That's not an example of Sith parenting.

She clearly stated that they shared Dark Side Magic and that he promised to make her his Right Hand but instead, stole her child.

I don't think there's a huge difference between Dark Side Force Users and Sith in terms of their quest for power, so we'll just agree to disagree.

I would also imagine that future Star Wars properties will explore these types of relationships, making this tiny plot point moot.

not as good as the previous Star Wars/next to last movie.
Rogue one was better than both.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The novelization of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RiseofSkywalker?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RiseofSkywalker</a> confirms that yes, Palpatine was a clone. <a href="https://t.co/zGFLUNFKdp">https://t.co/zGFLUNFKdp</a></p>&mdash; Collider (@Collider) <a href="https://twitter.com/Collider/status/1234149009285165056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

LMAO they really just threw **** at a wall huh?

I understood when KK fired Josh Trank due to the nonsense that happened during and after the filming of Fantastic Four.

I understood when KK fired Lord & Miller for shooting up to 40 takes of each and every scene while wildly veering from Larry Kasdan's script.

I understood hiring Rian Johnson, who's really a brilliant story teller and while I didn't "love" everything in that film or even agree with the direction, he was a very solid choice.

But firing Trevorrow? That, I don't get, especially after seeing all of the artwork and reading the story. While his Episode IX wouldn't have justified the Sequel Trilogy, his story didn't change Canon. His story didn't nullify Anakin's story arc or redemption and he didn't redeem Kylo Ren, which to me, was completely unjustified in Abrams version of IX.

I really believe that KK's on thin ice, especially after Iger resigned this week. But there's nothing that she could do in the future and there's nothing that Disney can do moving forward that will ever rectify the gigantic garbage pile of movie-making that is the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.

Nothing.

Apparently Rey & Kylo also had a telepathic conversation that for some reason wasn't in the movie.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/ben-s...085840965.html

So Palpatine's "son" was, actually, a failed attempt to clone him, which you know, makes a lot more sense than Palps ****ing and explains why he would have discarded his "son" without a second thought.

IF YOU HAD PUT THIS IN THE MOVIE MAYBE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A HELL OF A LOT BETTER.

THIS ACTUALLY MAKES ****ING SENSE. YOU ****ING JACKASSES.

So Rey is actually Palpatine's daughter? I'm confused.

Rey is the offspring of a failed clone of Palpatine.

The sequel trilogy continues to get dumber and dumber

It doesn't say anything about a mother though... we still don't have any definitive proof of Sith sexytime...

Considering the "logic" of these films, she's probably a clone of Palpatine, too

They've been releasing a lot of half-ass explanations in officials tweets and via the canon books like this one, that have been serious head-scratchers.

Seriously, how do they have that much money, and this little creative imagination? I just don't see how it's possible to have that level of resources, and result in this...

It's more believable than "PALPS SEXY TIME!"

And it explains WHY Palpatine, the most powerful being in the galaxy, would somehow lose track of his offspring - because he was nothing more than garbage to him.

Makes perfect sense.

Obviously, I haven’t read the novelization but what I have read about it doesn’t appear to make this explanation sensible.

Apparently, Sidious went through clone bodies like water because his Dark Side power and energy were too much for the clones to handle for any substantial period of time.

So with that being the case, and knowing that any clone body would have a limited shelf life, why was Rey’s father’s deemed “defective”? The man obviously lived through the cloning process, met a woman and had a child.

If Sidious was burning through clones, what made this clone disposable when, with all intents and purposes, EVERY clone was disposable?

Again, this explanation doesn’t make any sense.

I’d have to have more detail I guess.


On its face I don’t mind it.

a Darth Vader centered movie about his prime years kicking butt and how he became feared throughout the galaxy as the Sith took power. That would get everyone back on board.

Yep show the struggle inside as he slips deeper and deeper to the dark side. Movie can be centered around him chasing down remaining Jedi with a show down with Obi Wan.

End the movie with Obi Wan defeating him again but this time it’s less clear who won.

Find three Jedi masters for Vader to fight in his prime and the struggles he has with killing some of them

Canon comics have kind of already dispensed the notion of Vader being truly evil.

They've shown him as having mercy, as having doubts and regrets and feeling the "pull to the Light".

In the last issue of Vader Comics (#3, I believe), Vader runs into, what appears to be, Padme, who's apparently still alive, long after dying in RotS. We won't know for sure if it's truly Padme, and some have suggested it was one of her "look-a-like" body guards, until the next issue is released. But Anakin/Vader still has feelings for her.

But for the most part, it seems like Lucasfilm is veering Vader's story away from being the most evil man in the galaxy to a man that's confused about the choices he'd made, which of course eventually leads him towards redemption.

Personally, I'd rather Lucasfilm move their stories 1,000 years into the future rather than trying to "milk" the OT era for everything it's worth.

Absolutely agree with the bolded part. Vader, Yoda, Luke, and the rebellion would all be legend by then, which could be reflected upon in some fashion or just ignored entirely.

Not a direct response to you, but Vader has to be torn and emotional, in my opinion. You can't be fueled by hate and pain if you are an empty shell that feels nothing. So at the very least it has always made sense to me that he hangs on to the past and longs for his love, and when faced with that last existing pieces of Padme he turns on the Emperor.

I recently re-watched the entire Skywalker saga (minus IX), which was a reminder as to how the Jedi and Palpatine manipulated Anakin with their lies, deceit and treachery. The only surprise is that he didn't turn on Palpatine as soon as he discovered that his son was alive.

And now that they've pretty much retconned Anakin's backstory, the next iteration of Star Wars needs a truly evil antagonist, not a "good" person who's life and loyalties were manipulated, which made this person "become" evil, but a character that's completely evil and with no redeeming qualities.

You know, kind of like The Emperor.

This thread is the first place that I've ever seen it referred to as the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. So, thank you for that guys. Makes perfect sense. We have SW:PT, SW:OT, SW:ST. Or we can refer to the entire nine movie franchise as SW:POS and it fits perfectly.

This was Harrison Ford's stunt double LMAO

https://scontent.fmkc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...a8&oe=5E906B40

I had no idea Bill Mumy melted briefly in the mid-70s.




Useless trivia: Ford made an appearance in an episode of Gunsmoke called Whelan's Men. As a matter of fact, he shoots a dude across a poker table.

FYI, released to Digital early so it's available today

So?

:D

I bought it, of course, because my kids wanted to see it again.

Truth be told, if it was a stand-alone movie, it would be fantastic. It's action packed, fun, has a few laughs and amazing visuals.

The problems begin when it's dropped into a nine-film saga because if you think about the films that came before, along with 130 plus episodes of The Clone Wars and 50+ Rebels (not to mention all of the really great short films on Disney+), it completely falls apart.

But if you ignore those, it's a blast, which is what I chose to do last night. :D

Exactly this. It’s a fun movie. JJ knows how to keep things moving and couldn’t make a boring movie if he tried.

The problems come because nobody thought this trilogy out from the beginning. It was made up as they went along.

And then to expect fans to buy and read all these books to fill in the gaps is downright insane.

Just read the latest issue of The Rise of Kylo Ren.

It's a far more interesting story than anything in the sequel trilogy.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StarWars?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#StarWars</a> Confirms How Emperor Palpatine Survived Return of the Jedi<a href="https://t.co/DGLSkpB209">https://t.co/DGLSkpB209</a> <a href="https://t.co/jj090QFEvt">pic.twitter.com/jj090QFEvt</a></p>&mdash; Screen Rant (@screenrant) <a href="https://twitter.com/screenrant/status/1240612252589449217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Another article about how Palpatine's soul was able to survive after ROTJ.

I turned my brain off and watched this movie.

Best of the last 3. That's not saying a lot, but it's something.

No it's not.

It's a hamfisted, poorly written, unoriginal, overly CGI'd attempt at making us care about characters we don't and haven't cared about since they were introduced.

At least we cared about the OT cast in the first two.

Do you also wax nostalgic about the Transformers franchise?

That's what this movie was. The "Transformers" entry of the Star Wars saga.

Big, loud and stupid. With a worse protagonist.

On my phone, but here’s some honest reacts from the cast about Rise of Skywalker, and it’s pretty painful to watch.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sd9DvIs97G0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="1189" height="669" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O7dq_wo5eto" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hahaha, perfect

Good to see Anakin's true father representin' on the council.

Jar Jar?

Oh yeah. The dude who brought down the republic after just one day of subbing for Padme.

It wasn't very good. It tried but there was nothing to salvage.

I laughed at the kiss.

I saw it coming and hoped it didn't happen. It did and I cringed harder than I ever have.

It is brutal to watch. Cornier than a Hallmark movie.

tHeY fLy NoW

Better or worse than Anakin and Padme rolling around in the wheat? You decide.

Attack of the Clones is such an awful movie. LMAO

Also, I think this idea that RoS is a "bad movie" is a bit silly. It's a fantastic movie, when viewed as a Stand-Alone film.

The movie didn't work in a saga of nine movies, mostly due to the incongruous story that doesn't really match up with the first 7 films but in terms of film making, dialog, VFX, cinematography, set construction and action, it's pretty damn good.

'I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets in my vagina."

As a standalone film, it is a good, if illogical, way to spend time. In context of the Star Wars franchise, it is flawed. I loved some individual moments. Lando was charming, the action was exciting, and the voices of the Jedi were nostalgic.

I just wish the sequel trilogy was done better. That way, IX didn't have to be a Hail Mary.

Yeah. Piss on VIII for being such a cluster****.

There were three really bad decisions by Lucasfilm:

1. Allowing RJ to dismantle the entire legacy of Star Wars.

2. Firing Colin Trevorrow, whose script picks up where TLJ ended and provided a more logical and better conclusion to the saga than RoS.

3. Allowing JJ Abrams to completely "undo" TLJ instead of having a cognizant story that runs with the theme of TLJ.

Watched this last night with the 12 yr old grandson. We've both always been fans since the first movie.
It wasn't one of my favorites. Maybe it'll grow on me after we watch it again but, yea, I'd give it a 6.5/10.

I've kinda resigned myself to this fact with all 3 from the ST. They had no idea where they were going as a trilogy, but individually they were entertaining. I won't argue the pros and cons of them. I don't disagree that there are some issues with all of them, but overall I was entertained when I went to the theater. It is what it is at this point.

That's where I am.

It's like the movies were these weird film school assignments where J.J. and Rian were partnered up to write spec scripts for each other's works despite having radically different philosophies. I'd prefer to hear their interpretation of the SW saga at a panel at comic con rather than with one of the most iconic IP's of our era, but it's whatever at this point.

Who made these decisions? It's okay, you can say her name.

Bob Iger and the entire Lucasfilm team were also involved, so there's plenty of blame to spread around.

I absolutely blame Bob Iger for refusing to budge to JJ’s request for BOTH TFA and TROS to delay their releases to May. Both scripts would have really benefitted from some minor changes before going into production.

I blame KK for interfering with TLJ’s script process. RJ’s rough draft had Poe and Finn together (no Rose). Canto Bight was based off of Jabba’s Palace OG designs (KK said it didn’t feel like “Star Wars”) and way more of the original timecode was devoted to Luke and Rey. Not saying KK was the cause of all of these changes, it’s just amazing how both TLJ and TROS had much better scripts in their first drafts (arguably TFA did too - as it introduced Luke in Act III rather than the end). The writers of these movies always seemed to have a much better idea of how to do SW right than Disney’s execs ever did.

Worse. Disney was too afraid for Rey and Finn to have a romantic relationship despite their claims they are progressive.

How does a romantic relationship between Rey & Finn further the Skywalker saga?

I don't know if it "furthers the Skywalker saga" but they basically laid the groundwork for it in TFA and then it went nowhere. Yet another way none of these movies fit together at all.

Finn and Rey are connected through The Force.

Slamming Disney for not following up on a romantic relationship and blaming Disney for not being "progressive enough", when there are dozens of issues with the ST, is worthless and petty.

Agreed.

like the 'honest trailer' - I'm more irritated that Rey can resurrect, but apparently no one was around with that skill to save Qui-Gon.

Inconsistencies (both in plots and mythology) is what bugged me.

I’d rather them develop the idea that Rey was working on making the force more useful and becoming more powerful

So it sounds like Iger is back...

Bob Iger Thought He Was Leaving on Top. Now, He’s Fighting for Disney’s Life.

The former C.E.O. thought he was riding into the sunset. Now he’s reasserting control and reimagining Disney as a company with fewer employees and more thermometers.

it's threesome, then

https://i.redd.it/13kbe1eradp31.jpg

https://i.redd.it/xujvdmnecci41.jpg

https://i.redd.it/eiggz814c9i41.png

There's a good, IMO, fix for Luke by The Critical Drinker on YouTube. I liked his fix for 'Fat Thor' in Endgame and his video would have made a much better movie.

It's worth a look...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvAa2ALSunE

Luke didn't need to be "fixed."

His character arc was perfect and other than Kylo, he was the best part of the sequel trilogy.

For that matter, Fat Thor was fine, too.

Yeah. Agree with Clay on both counts here.

You can’t have Luke be a “Yoda or Obi Wan” type in Ep. 8 who had a mastery of the force but let Han die.

How could anyone not like Thor Lebowski?

I disagree with that notion. Luke cut himself off from The Force, so there was no way he could have known that Ben killed his father.

Luke could have easily retained all of his Jedi knowledge without actually being connected to The Force, just as the Guardians of the Whills knew of The Force without actually being Jedi.

Now, what doesn't make sense is that there were Jedi running around the galaxy 20 years after Order 66 as well as Force Sensitives, yet Vader and The Emperor couldn't find them in The Force, nor did they know that Yoda and Obi Wan were still alive.

Thinking too much about these movies just opens such gigantic plot holes that the entire series just seems inconsistent and just plain dumb.

I don’t know.

Something didn’t ever feel right with J.J.’s original script where Luke was levitating boulders and a mountainside when Rey approached him. It’s possible the right script could have explained why he continued being a Jedi legend despite abandoning the rebel cause and leaving Leia out to dry, but Rian’s explanation made more sense to me.

TLJ’s overall execution was absolutely lacking, though.

The reason why it's so fuzzy to me is because neither JJ nor Rian bothered to tell us the length of time that transpired between Luke's "disappearance" and Rey's arrival.

It also seems odd that Luke would be so close to locating Exogal, yet ultimately decided to shut himself off to The Force. Why then? Frustration?

Also, why didn't any other Force Ghosts help him to find it, especially Anakin, with whom he was supposedly communicating with after Vader's death?

You know, it's just all so lazy that it's almost not worth even discussing or questioning.

Listening to you two makes me feel convinced that there was next to no communication between JJ and Rian throughout their processes.

Is it too much to hope for that the sequel trilogy gets retconned in a decade or so?

We'll probably get a CGI movie about the exploits of Luke, Han and Leia post ROTJ in about 10 years, I'd imagine.

They already showed they're on the right path with the CGI versions of Luke and Leia in ROS.

We'll get that trilogy, or maybe just one movie, and it will be "headcanon" Episode 7 for lots of fans.

I'm not sure if they can effectively retcon the ST but they do have the option to create a bunch of TV series and movies based on Han, Luke & Leia's exploits after RotJ, which could effectively deem the ST as non-essential.

If Disney ever gets around to making SW movies again, make a Darth Vader movie next. You wouldn't necessarily have to recast Christensen, but Anakin is the most interesting character in the entire franchise and it would make tons of money.