Seriously?

Have you been to a slimming club. Do you not get those womens weekly magazines in the US?

And when someone says, "I can eat whatever i want on my diet", what they're really saying is that they're otherwise eating healthy but leaving room in their caloric allotment to squeeze in some Ice Cream or a Cookie. That ice cream or cookie comes at the sacrifice of something else.

What does any of that have to do with anything? When it comes to anecdotal evidence you're supplying it in its weakest form.

How do you think people lost weight before keto and any other fad diet? By chance?

I don't necessarily think Keto is a fad diet though, but just as with anything, it's not right for everyone. Same as Vegan or whatever.

Limiting carbs for me since February, combined with working my ass off and intermittent fasting has gotten me really good results. I don't really buy in to the pure "Keto" stuff, I just keep my shitty carbs low. I don't really see how eating an apple for lunch is gonna overload my carbs.

But cutting out for lack of better term "shitty" carbs isn't all about weight loss, it has a lot of other benefits from a health perspective.

Definitely not an expert either, just well read

That's part of what doesn't make sense about keto. Your body preferentially stores fat but converting glucose to fat (like you said - DNL) is a metabolically expensive process and very rarely happens in humans outside of weird eating like overfeeding at 90% carbs.

Another part that doesn't make sense is that fat is almost completely devoid of nutrients. Put butter, coconut oil, beef fat, pork fat, etc in a nutrition tracker and you'll see there is basically nothing in it but energy (butter has some vitamin A and K but that's pretty much it). So making the biggest chunk of your calories nutritionally void energy doesn't really make sense for extended weight loss and health.

I tried keto when I was a meter reader a few years ago. Not even possible. My body needed the damn carbs from walking 10 miles a day.

Like your boy friend said **** it you do your thing others do theirs. This thread started off as a good way to share advice and as usual the CICO nazis turn it into a pissing contest.

To be quite honest, Paleo makes more sense to me than Keto.

What's more sustainable - eating foods I like and make me feel good and energetic just by watching how much I eat of them or eating boring food that makes me feel like death warmed over and depriving myself of foods I like?

Besides that, i don't think you are thinking of CICO correctly if you are referring to slimming clubs and women's magazine, which usually are all about fad diets. There is a big difference in tracking calories and with eating a box of fat free cookies because they "are healthy". We haven't been obsessing over calories over the last 50 years as much as denying that they count and looking for ways to lose weight without counting them - Atkins, Low Fat, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc.

Well, we got to the name calling phase.

The title of this thread "let's talk about counting calories". You're the one in here spouting low carb bullshit.

Rawr. SOMEONE is being defensive.

Taking a quick look at the Keto diet and it doesn't seem that abnormal from a standard diet to me.

If you're eating healthy meats for high protein intake and limiting sugar and junk carbs as you normally would in a low cal diet then aren't you getting a similar effect anyway?

Seems to me that Keto is just a more restricted version of a true healthy diet. Shrug, idk.

So what does a daily meal plan look like on a Keto diet?

It's funny but back when I first got involved in low carb, it was considered as a way to reduce calories. Dr. Atkins said that calories counted and to cut back on nuts and cheese if you weren't losing weight. Also, you were only supposed to stay in the very low carb phase (Induction) for the first two weeks and then start adding carbs back. You were supposed to keep adding carbs back as you lost weight (called climbing the carb ladder).

Somewhere along the way, the message got twisted and carbs became evil, calories didn't count as long as you were chugging fat and ketosis was the preferred thing to be in. The "whole CICO doesn't work", "we got fat eating low fat foods" and "insulin causes weight gain" (all erroneous) are all straight out of the current low carb guru handbook.

Here's the current leading voice in the keto movement. He's written several books, including Keto Clarity and runs the most popular keto forum and Facebook pages.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...70&oe=5B79844D

LOL