Originally Posted by Balto (Post 17278081)

I mostly agree about Travis BUT he might want to top TG in yards. If that's the case he might try to play another 3 or 4 years.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17278274)

Not taking any viable receiver EXCEPT an All-Pro #1WR, it's either that or NOTHING is stupid.

If a guy has done it before, under this OC, in THIS system, and is 26 years old and likely to be inexpensive, you nab him. Mooney wouldn't preclude any other move, and gives you a young WR that's had an 80/1000 yard season.

You don't stop there. You don't call it good. You still fill the rest of the room with viable options with upside, but saying **** NO, HE'S NOT A #1WR is ****ing stupid.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17278294)

But you can see what we meant when we talked about WR1/wr2. We need adaptable WRs. Not a bunch of niche guys who play 1 specific role. We can’t have a bunch of 500-700 yard WRs let alone ones who can’t adapt to play outside their role. Those are great guys to fill the back of the wr depth chart not the front. Our plan was for WR1 to be a gadget guy who not surprisingly couldn’t adapt outside of that, wr2 to be a clearout guy, our slot guy was primarily a man beater who we thought could catch and run but had clear limitations beyond that. Rice is the only guy we have who feels like a Swiss Army knife and even still, we don’t fully know if he can consistently beat man coverage at the top level we need from a primary option.

That’s the bare minimum. We can’t even do that. Let alone the additional layer of WRs who can consistently and reliably run the right route (let alone a great one), catch a pass (let alone a difficult or contested pass). So we have a bunch of role players who are total inconsistent messes adjusting to the route and to the ball. That’s why we need a WR1. At the very least have the versatility to do lots of things, but for the love of god let’s finally give mahomes some guys who can work to get the ball just as hard as he works to get the ball to them.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278315)

You want to have a whole viable room of WR's.

That doesn't happen, no teams have that.

Get a high end guy, fill around him and move on.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278148)

This was the year for the defense, it's time is over.

They're gonna go build the offense now, so yeah, the whole "#1 WR is fantasy talk" shit is not that.

A #1 WR is a guy you can force feed targets to and don't have to do any other bullshit to get him open. Pay him, throw him the ball, fill in the rest around him and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Balto (Post 17278069)

I don't know. I think Veach's style is go all out on the biggest need and be aggressive in getting it fixed with a top talent.

Example would be we needed a DE...Veach goes and get the best he could in Frank Clark with high draft capital.

Needed tackle upgrade after Bucs killed Mahomes...Veach goes and gets OBJ jr. but that was after he went all out for Trent Williams, the best tackle in the NFL, and almost got him! THEN when OBJ jr came up for contract Veach went after Tunsil!

YES I do think Veach's approach for most positions is to get cheap vets and draft BUT if he has a big need like pass rush or OT has been the last couple of years he goes all out and is very aggressive. I see WR being this off seasons OT!

And YES I 100% believe he would give up draft pick/s and pay $20M for a top WR after what the team is going through this season. Thats still cheaper than what Hill would have been costing.

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17278480)

I don't have anything against Mooney, he's just not the talent I think we're looking for. On a lighter contract, sure. Pittman or Ridley would be really nice. Hollywood would be quality get but is he a #1, prob not. Maybe there's a #1 WR type available for trade we're not considering, Metcalf would look great in red. Hell, maybe Hopkins is available in a trade. Lots of good WRs in the draft too, depends if you can pay for a #1 vet or have to develop a guy bc you spent all the cap space on D. Going to be a fun offseason!

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 17278483)

I don't think Veach will trade a high draft pick for a WR that's going to need a new contract. I think he will address it though. FA and a draft pick is probably the route he will go. I won't be surprised if we draft another WR in the second round. Skyy will be given at least one more training camp to get it. He reminds me of the guy in Dr Death (if you've seen that show) screwing up the same play over and over.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17278492)

Skyy will be a Chief for at least another two seasons. Probably three.

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17278496)

God help us.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17278491)

I could get behind either Pittman or Ridley. Hollywood isn't ideal, imo. Great athlete, but not the best football player, imo.


I would love to get DHop, but since Levis is now likely TEN's new QB1 going forward, and he has a strong chemistry with Hopkins, i doubt he's going to be available.


Is there a list of potential FA WRs out there somewhere?

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17278491)

I could get behind either Pittman or Ridley. Hollywood isn't ideal, imo. Great athlete, but not the best football player, imo.


I would love to get DHop, but since Levis is now likely TEN's new QB1 going forward, and he has a strong chemistry with Hopkins, i doubt he's going to be available.


Is there a list of potential FA WRs out there somewhere?

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17278508)

Hollywood doesn’t seem like he solves the issues we have. Focus and consistency. I feel like if we wanted him we would’ve traded for him

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 17278513)

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17278492)

Skyy will be a Chief for at least another two seasons. Probably three.

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 17278526)

I see one more year and if he doesn't improve he'll be gone. I could also see him being cut and placed on the PS in 2024 if he doesn't get it figured out. Would he clear waivers? At this point I think he might.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17278532)

I'm just saying, Andy loves reclamation projects, and he can be ridiculously stubborn about it. So long as Skyy doesn't become a lockerroom issue, or do something really stupid off the field and lie about it to Andy's face, he'll be a Chief for the duration of his rookie contract.


edit: I hope you're right, and that I'm totally wrong, though.

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 17278541)

I have a hard time seeing Veach and Andy putting Mahomes in the same situation next year as they did this year with underperforming WRs. It's obviously taking a toll on him.

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17278146)

And you are leaving Donovan Smith out of your nonsensical response... because?

Because it doesn't fit your dumbshit narrative?

Donovan Smith at LT and Wylie at RT... $11 million combined/year.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17278553)

Like I said, I really, REALLY, hope you're right on this one.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17278550)

Follow-up:

Feel pretty strongly if Mooney is the main FA add, they’re either spending a significant draft slot on another one or making a trade to pair with him.

He’s a nice complementary piece, but not a solution by himself.

Originally Posted by mlyonsd (Post 17278567)

IMO Varch has done a pretty good job at addressing position groups with the money he has available. I still believe in him.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17278547)

I don't care about whether Brown fits a classic #1 receiver designation. I care about whether he adds an element to the offense that it needs.

What it needs most is a legit field-stretching threat who can track the ball, make the correct route adjustments, and catch the ball when it's thrown to him. He's got the quick stop-start Reid loves and is a good fit in the offense. He'd be a nice complement to Rice and a significant upgrade at the Z spot.

Mooney is a lesser version of that. Fast, can run the Z stuff, has had success in this offense and should be a relatively quick study.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17278583)

I don’t know man. I just don’t see it. We’ve had our share of inconsistent deep threats and I honestly don’t know that mahomes is a consistent deep shot qb. I lean way more a Calvin ridley or Michael Pittman type. Rashee feels at his best with a lot of the short catch and run stuff. But I just want a big target who always knows where to be and can catch a ball even if it’s in a different area code. What we’ve been missing this season isn’t the occasional explosive play, it’s an intermediate field target eater

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17278146)

And you are leaving Donovan Smith out of your nonsensical response... because?

Because it doesn't fit your dumbshit narrative?

Donovan Smith at LT and Wylie at RT... $11 million combined/year.

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief (Post 17278646)

Dude, you know exactly how this played out so why are you being obtuse...

We were going to sign either OBJ or Taylor, period. OBJ would have continued at LT if we signed him. Instead he didn't like our number and we moved on to Taylor, who would play LT, if we found no other option in free agency, and probably resign Wylie for our RT. Veach got Donovan Smith which allowed Taylor to continue playing RT, which is more or less just as important as LT in today's NFL with speed elite edge rushers going to the weakest link. Having Taylor and Smith, is actually cheaper than if we had kept Wylie with Taylor, or had signed OBJ instead of Taylor. They were signing one of them, period.

Can you imagine if we started the season with Smith and Wylie. LMAO, this place would have gone mad.

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17278661)

Holy shit, this is almost as Reerunned as your “Skyy Moore is improving because he is a good blocker” take. LMAO

Paying $20 million/year for a RT who is on pace to set the all time single season penalty record for an individual player… at the expense of investing in actual NFL-caliber WR’s… was a failed decision.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17278550)

Follow-up:

Feel pretty strongly if Mooney is the main FA add, they’re either spending a significant draft slot on another one or making a trade to pair with him.

He’s a nice complementary piece, but not a solution by himself.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17278641)

I can't see KC dipping big for Ridley given his age.

Pittman, sure.

Considering the Chiefs' inefficiency on throws of 20+, they definitely are missing the occasional explosive play, and teams have stepped away from the 2 deep safety looks as a result.

They need a deep threat and a 3-levels winner. Even if Brown is not a 3-levels winner (and he has exhibited that ability at times), he's a rather nice upgrade at the Z spot.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278867)

We need a legit badass at WR. Enough with the "deep threat here, middle here, this there".

Go get a guy that can do it all, fill around it.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278881)

Yep.

Everyone thinks the only way to play offense is to have burners all over the field, deep ball deep ball deep ball. Mooney and Moore go BBBBRRRRRRR FAST, we need them.

AJ Brown runs a 4.5 40. Would anyone be upset to have AJ Brown on this roster?

I don't care how they do it, but get a legit WR1 to pair with Rice and the last year or two of Kelce and this offense will SING

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278882)

AJ brown has a top 10 draft pick WR across from him as well.

Yes, paid Rice with another Wr that can actually do it all and let these other guys fill around it.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278867)

We need a legit badass at WR. Enough with the "deep threat here, middle here, this there".

Go get a guy that can do it all, fill around it.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278881)

Yep.

Everyone thinks the only way to play offense is to have burners all over the field, deep ball deep ball deep ball. Mooney and Moore go BBBBRRRRRRR FAST, we need them.

AJ Brown runs a 4.5 40. Would anyone be upset to have AJ Brown on this roster?

I don't care how they do it, but get a legit WR1 to pair with Rice and the last year or two of Kelce and this offense will SING

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278887)

Crazy that some folks would prefer we just keep accumulating Mecole Hardman clones.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17278905)

Who is asking for a Mecole Hardman clone?

Darnell Mooney is a second-tier target. Is that what has you worked up?

If the FA pool doesn't work out, they don't land a front-tier option, he's a useful second-tier target who has some familiarity with the offense, good production in his recent past, and some potential to unlock more than he's shown in a better passing offense.

Marquise Brown is not a Hardman clone. He's an upgraded version of Hardman, with more actual legitimate WR skills.

Everyone agrees they need to make upgrades at WR, but there are multiple paths to it.

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic (Post 17278690)

Saying Wylie and Niang were not viable at RT, so we HAD to sign a free agent, but then saying we won a SB with the receivers, so they didn't need to be upgraded, is hypocritical bullshit. We obviously won the FN Super Bowl with Wylie and Niang as well.

I understand why people don't want to criticize Veach. He was the Champion for Mahomes being drafted, and is currently responsible for 2 SB rings. And it's the same thing for Reid. I get why people don't want to be critical of their performance.

But, Veach miscalculated when he didn't add a high level veteran to replace JuJu, he doubled down at the trade deadline, and we have looked like a poorly coached team all season. Drops, fumbles, penalties, special teams, etc. are still an issue for this team in week 14.

Taylor is not good. Smith is not good. They aren't bad, they are just not good.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17278912)

With a hurt quarterback.

I'm 100% okay with Veach prioritizing upgrades on the OL this past off-season. Now it's an open question as to whether or not he succeeded, but the philosophy was absolutely defensible.

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17278908)

This is going to be a much better WR FA and draft year than last year, if what they do is marginal it is by choice.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278913)

I may be way off here but.....I'd rather have Hardman at his price than Hollywood at his.

If I'm gonna spend at WR, go spend and get results.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278913)

I may be way off here but.....I'd rather have Hardman at his price than Hollywood at his.

If I'm gonna spend at WR, go spend and get results.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278928)

That's my point - if healthy, Hardman gives you what Mooney does at likely 1/10th the cost. Spotrac seems to think Mooney's market value is $10M a season.

**** that.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278916)

Prime example on why FA can be fools gold. You don't know the guy til you get him in the building.

Now I dont' think Taylor has been bad at all outside the penalties (other than that how was the play Mrs Lincoln) but it hasn't worked out.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17278934)

I agree - absent the penalties I think Taylor's been an upgrade on Wylie. And in the end penalties are annoying but they don't get PM hurt. I'll take an improvement on the field even at the cost of more penalties if that helps keep our quarterback healthy.

But for the cost he's been a disappointment.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278928)

That's my point - if healthy and the 4th option behind Rice, Kelce and a legit WR1, Hardman gives you what Mooney does at likely 1/10th the cost. Spotrac seems to think Mooney's market value is $10M a season.

**** that.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278932)

Inflation at the WR spot....so yea, that's about right.

I'd not do that myself either.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278938)

Absolutely.

But also....you wanted him so you wear this scarlett letter.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278928)

That's my point - if healthy and the 4th option behind Rice, Kelce and a legit WR1, Hardman gives you what Mooney does at likely 1/10th the cost. Spotrac seems to think Mooney's market value is $10M a season.

**** that.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17278945)

Yup - haven't shied away from that one either.

He was my guy; a dude I thought could play LT or at worst be a truly elite RT. He's not been that. He's been an above average pass blocker with penalty issues and some run blocking warts.

Essentially he's been the same player (plus penalties) that he was in Jacksonville. And that's disappointing as I felt like he was an ascending player that would reach a new level. It hasn't happened.

He's not been worth the deal we gave him for sure.

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17278941)

How are you getting that 1? Are you signing it or drafting it?

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278950)

Prefer to sign, as I don't think we get it drafting late.

The problem is that guy actually being available. I've made it clear my top choice would be Pittman, just need the Colts to go Full R and not resign him.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17278946)

I think there are 2 paths. You consider a Mooney as insurance for a Wr1 you take with an aggressive draft pick. Mooney is a much better temp full time WR than hardman is.

Or you can spend big $ on a wR1 and ideally take the best draft pick possible but less urgent since it’s wr2… maybe allows to be a little less aggressive in the draft.

The first scenario would save us a lot of money but it’s a bit of a year 1 risk.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278950)

Prefer to sign, as I don't think we get it drafting late.

The problem is that guy actually being available. I've made it clear my top choice would be Pittman, just need the Colts to go Full R and not resign him.

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17278957)

Good ****ing Lord, can we shut the **** up about Aiyuk, please? He's the third option AT BEST in San Francisco and his production drops noticably when not playing with McCaffrey or Samuel. And we want to send a first AND sign him to top WR money to be our #1?!?

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17278957)

Good ****ing Lord, can we shut the **** up about Aiyuk, please? He's the third option AT BEST in San Francisco and his production drops noticably when not playing with McCaffrey or Samuel. And we want to send a first AND sign him to top WR money to be our #1?!?

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17278956)

Who would they possibly franchise if not him?

I just can't see any possibility that Pittman hits the market. And while I'd probably be fine paying him the contract he'd command on the market, I'm not willing to do that AND give a 1st or even 2nd round pick for him.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278965)

It's Pittman or Kenny Moore.

The tag number for CB's is probably $3-4M less than WR.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17278970)

Kenny Moore is a 28 yr old slot CB having a career season.

Pittman is an emerging WR1 entering his prime.

If they can't get Pittman extended they will absolutely tag him. They're not letting him out of the building.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17278962)

Lord - is there anyone you'd be satisfied with then?

Because Aiyuk is an excellent receiver. Easy top 20, arguably top 10. And he's young.

Argue the acquisition cost if you'd like but man, I don't understand "well he's just the 3rd option in SF..." as a position at all. Aiyuk is really really good. He's a damn site better than anyone that's going to be available in FA or likely in trade. I'd definitely take him over Adams, especially when you consider age.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278972)

I'll get shit on for this but......I think the offense is actually pretty close here. It won't be 2018 just fire breathing dragon, but I think they're closer to what they were last year than they were a few weeks ago.

It's close.

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17278961)

Yeah lets just draft another Skyy Moore in the 2nd round and hope, pray and beg that he's good. We need WR1 and we need to KNOW they will be WR1. Kelce is about done. Take advantage of this great time. Kelce is too great to have these years be all for not. Its disrespectful to him.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278982)

I mentioned elsewhere that I wouldn't be shocked to see Richie James make a real impact the rest of the year. I think we're not having these "WR sucks" conversations if he doesn't get hurt.

The guy was productive with Vanilla Vick at QB, pretty sure he's gonna be fine here.

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17278985)

Hell, if Hardman can actually get some reps in he's already proven to be more than capable of being productive in the offense.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278928)

That's my point - if healthy and the 4th option behind Rice, Kelce and a legit WR1, Hardman gives you what Mooney does at likely 1/10th the cost. Spotrac seems to think Mooney's market value is $10M a season.

**** that.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17278989)

Hopefully by the time Hardman is back, the roles behind Kelce and Rice have solidified.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17278990)

Possibly and yeah, if Mooney is getting $10M/AAV, I don't think that's a better value than Hardman at $3M or whatever he gets.

I also think Mooney and Brown are better players than Hardman. Brown by a decent margin.

Can't hone in on one approach. I hope the Chiefs find a way to land an Aiyuk or Pittman or top-tier option. If they don't, there are still players available in FA who can contribute to raising the quality of the room.

Sign a Mike Evans or Michael Pittman or Brandon Aiyuk? Cool. That's the big swing and you invest in WR in the draft based on how the board falls, but it can be a Day 2 or 3 pick instead of being a priority.

Can't get the big swing done? Cool. Sign a FA or two who are fits in the system and have some upside and raise the floor, and prioritize getting a top-level receiving target in the draft.

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17278977)

We'll have to agree to disagree on him. When Deebo was out of the lineup for those 3 weeks his production noticably declined and the 49ers offense as a whole only managed 17 points every game and lost all 3 games. Just seems far more likely to me he's benefitting greatly from being 3rd fiddle and I'm not sure he can deliver when asked to take over as a legit #1.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278913)

I may be way off here but.....I'd rather have Hardman at his price than Hollywood at his.

If I'm gonna spend at WR, go spend and get results.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17278972)

I'll get shit on for this but......I think the offense is actually pretty close here. It won't be 2018 just fire breathing dragon, but I think they're closer to what they were last year than they were a few weeks ago.

It's close.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 17279002)

Here's where I'd rather just bring back what we have (possibly James, specifically if the rest of this year shows promise) and prioritizing the position in the draft than to be committed to $10M a year for 3-5 years for someone like Mooney. It's the MVS situation all over again.