Calorie restriction long term is not sustainable imo and why would you want to when you can just monitor sugar and refined carbohydrates.

CICO (Calorie in calorie out) diets just lead to a cycle of weight off weight on. This why many put weight on and then diets in cyclical fashion; put weight on Christmas diet for summer, or some variation of this.

Eating Twinkies might help you lose weight but what is it doing to your insides namely your pancreas?

I'm 34 inch waist now - I'll be 33 or 32 by or before August. So you go eat a high calorie dick.

I weighed this AM and was at 210.5 - I'm sure that's somewhat distorted since it was first thing. I'll still log it here FWIW.

You just watching calories or doin keto

I typed out a long response to this and then decided I don't have time to argue with a Keto True Believer. I will say that I was involved in the low carb world for 15 years and found when I got out of it that 90% of what's preached by low carb gurus is utter bullshit (including what you said about CICO). I'll leave the research up to you, though. :thumb:

You do your thing and I'll do mine and we'll see where we end up.

Month 2 is almost done. I started doing this April 1st - thanks Red! - at 225.2. My average weight this morning is 206.2 lbs so I'm only a pound away from the 20 lb lost mark. 19 lbs in 9 weeks isn't too bad. I lost 7.6 lbs on average during May, so if I do that again next month, I'll be under 200 lbs by July 4th.

I had no idea you weren't already doing this - if I'm even a pound responsible for assisting - than I'm honored. Great news! keep doing whatever is working.

I haven't been following this entire thread, but calories in vs out is pretty much all that matters unless you are somehow defying the law of thermodynamics. If you are in a deficit, you will 'lose' something.. whether its predominately fat or muscle or a combination of both will boil down to your macro-nutrient breakdown. Yes, you will lose weight on a deficit twinkie diet, however your body composition will be shit (ie skinny fat).

I have done a lot of those low carb CKD diets (anabolic diet, low carb paleo, carb nite solution, etc) back when i would lean out for powerlifting meets. In the end, my experience was calories and macro's are all that really mattered. as long as my protein was around 1g/lb bodyweight, i could fill the 'energy' nutrients with fats and carbs as long as I don't spill over.

Pretty sure you mentioned all this already, just my experience. There are also some pretty knowledgeable guys on this board when it comes to lifting & nutrition (silock, lewdog and a bunch more I can't remember).

I'm definitely not the guy to talk to about lifting but I have done a crapton of research over the years about dieting so think I have a handle on it. I'm an engineer, though, and not a scientist so there always areas to tweak. I just get so tired of the "CICO doesn't work; it's all the carbs: ketologic. I wasted entirely too much of my life trying to find the magic diet that lets you eat without worrying about calories as long as you ate the right combination of foods. It's all bullshit and unsustainable. I appreciate your sane post.

I had been thinking about it but this thread was the kick in the butt to actually get started.

I'm an engineer also (telecom). I definitely learned from my keto/VLCD experience that you cannot eat unlimited supplies of salami and eggs ;]

The calories add up even faster on VLCD's than traditional 40/40/20 split i've been on for the last few years, due to fats just being higher in cal content. It's also easier for the body to shuttle fatty acids back into fat cells, than to convert excess glucose to fat (de-novo lipogenesis I believe its called). This is all from what I have read- I'll stick to telecom for my expertise.

The old thermodynamics argument, what about hormones?

That's like saying all cars burn fuel to the same economy.

Unregulated Insulin causes weight gain, weve been obsessed with calories for last 50 years and where has it gotten us? Fatter and sicker.

I dont think you read what I said. I wasn't knocking calorie restriction because of course it works. But is it sustainable? Can restrict calories your entire life. I am not a true believer I dont do Keto I just cut sugar and refined carbohydrate out of my diet. I dont measure ketones or any of that crap life is too short.

Pretty sure those who seriously obsess about calories aren't the ones getting fatter and sicker.

I mean, i don't know shit about Keto or any fad diet, but that comment was just too silly to ignore.

Wouldn't that be up to the individual?

And since when is CUTTING calories something that is suppose to be sustainable?

You cut cals to lose weight, not to sustain. The caloric intake required to cut vs sustain are two completely different figures.