They should with CJ's money - but if they don't, I'd rather they just draft and develop than waste resources on question marks - because that hasn't worked the last few times we've tried it.

Also-

did you know that Marquis Brown and Darnell Mooney have exactly the same number of 1,000 yard seasons?

and that they have the same ypc season high of 13.3? And that they're the same age?

so yeah, I'd buy low on Mooney.

That's false. Worked well enough with Juju that we won the Super Bowl and had the #1 offense in football by just about every measurement.

And I'm 100% in on drafting and developing, always have been.

Just because this group all shit the bed simultaneously doesn't mean it wasn't the right strategy.

And it hasn't worked with Toney, James, or outside the AFCCG, MVS.

So we're 1/4?

Cool.

There's another guy I want no part of.

I'm tired of slapdicks. Kelce isn't going to be around forever, so it's time to find that alpha WR1 to pair with Rice and quit ****ing around with ****ing C players.

This is a silly argument. You don't go into the season with Rice and nothing else.

Obviously you draft a guy high, but you always want at least one vet that's shown something and has some upside.

This is a stupid argument.

I hate to break this to you, but they aren't giving up on Moore, Toney, James and probably Hardman.

Which is why if you go out and get a difference maker in FA and draft a WR high, they'd be just fine. They are all fine supplementary pieces (well, maybe not Moore) behind Kelce, Rice and a couple of legit WR1/2's.

James and Hardman are those vets that have shown something and have upside. What we're missing is the alpha. We don't need more JAGs

I really do no understand the fascination with guys like Mooney and Hollywood - it's nothing more than BRRRRRRR guy go fast. They aren't WR1's, not even close.

Kinda depends on if Hardman and James decide to come back. James was on a one year deal and was already asking to be traded before we activated him off of IR. Hardman was a one year deal as well and they may not bring him back because he can't stay healthy. You're correct with Moore and Toney though. They'll be back.

Like we did this season….

True, forgot James was on a 1-year deal. My hope is that now that he's healthy he becomes a contributor. Dude caught 60ish passes from Daniel Jones FFS, he should be a nice piece to have around.

Those types of guys serve a purpose, but the idea of building a WR room full of guys like him and Mooney/Hollywood is no bueno.

Really now we are talking about Mooney as our #1? Jesus

Veach needs to get a top 10 WR OR a top 3 WR in the draft.

Current NFL guys:
Cooper Kupp-Makes sense for both teams
Mike Evans-Will cost but could easily happen
DK Metcalf-Don't think Seattle would take the cap hit but who knows
Terry McLaurin-Don't see new staff sending away a young weapon
JuJu-IF Pats go new staff sure I can see this happen in a trade
Kyle Pitts-Not a WR but could see this happen to hedge many things.

Draft:
Marvin Harrison JR-Would cost a Julio Jones type trade(2-1st, 1-2nd and a mid round pick). Maybe get something from a CJ trade and package that with our picks to go get him! Would be a ALL IN LETS GO type of move by Veach.

Malik Nabers-Guessing around 8-12 pick and much easier to trade up and get. If he was 4inches taller he would go before Harrison Jr. if you ask me. I personally am tired of these 6ft tall guys but the talent is there to be a #1 WR in Reids WCO because of his great route running!!! Not your elite vertical threat though.

Rome Odunze-Kinda a less sexy Harrison Jr. Could end up being the best out of all the WRs in the class and can be had around 10-14 range. High school sprinter at 6'4 with equal short and vertical game. My favorite part...hands! and his ability to go after a contested ball! something we have zero of ATM. Not a great blocker and can get pressed at the line. Seems to mellow if that makes sense?

Several others that could go mid 1st and late 1st. Pretty good WR draft overall but I still think Veach should move up and get a top guy!

Also could go after Brock Bowers, TE from Georgia. Guy is crazy good but Veach would need to move up around 10 to get him. I'm not sure if Veach was that into moving up for a play making pass catcher that he would go with Bowers over say Nabers or Odunze. BUT man watching the packages of Kelce+Bowers would be insane!

I'd probably rather see Veach go after Kyle Pitts AND trade up to get a top WR in the draft. Kelce+Pitts+Rookie WR+Rice+our other trash would make me happy!

We aren't going to get any draft capital for CJ. I doubt the front office are going to

Man, you might as well just check out now, because not a single thing on your wishlist is going to happen.

You just went total Ree-run.

None of those players are going to be available, or within KC's price range. None.

You should probably just find another hobby and stop watching Chiefs football.

Young free agents that have had 1,000 yard seasons?

Ok.

****, Chris - he's done it ONE ****ING TIME.

And he's not even hit 1000 yards COMBINED the last two years.

Tyler Boyd has had TWO 1000 yard seasons - no ****ing way I want him as our WR1.

Chase Claypool has come damn close. **** that.

Donovan Peoples-Jones came close once too.

Being a 1000 yard WR once, 3 ****ing years ago means shit.

We need to stop treating the WR position like that meme that shows a broken record player(?) with a note that says "doesn't work, but could be fun to fix!"

No more projects. PLEASE.

MUCH higher odds than Veach and Reid's big off season plan being go after Mooney as our fix all HAHAHA

He caught 60 balls as a rookie. he caught 80 and went for 1000 in his second year. In his third, he only caught 40, but he missed 5 games with an injury and that is with Fields, who can't play NFL QB. Dude cannot read a defense. This year, he's been #2 to Moore. This is not a case of a guy that's a bum and never did anything. He's 26 and will not cost even as much as MVS.

This isn't a "do I want Jamarr Chase, or do I want Darnell Mooney" situation. This isn't a "do I want Boyd, or Higgins, or just take Mooney' situation.

This is a moronic argument.

He's an affordable young player that has produced, and still has upside.

He would immediately be the best receiver we have, without question. He knows this offense. He put up 1000 yards with ****ing Trubisky.

he'll be cheaper than we paid for MVS even. It's a no ****ing brainer.

Go draft a WR in the first, you've got Rice in year two, and a guy who's shown he can play.

That logic didn't work with Toney.

Stop with the "let's take a WR who hasn't shown consistent production elsewhere and think he can magically be turned into a productive WR just because he'd be playing with Mahomes" bullshit.

Wait and see, champ.

If Mooney is so good how the heck will Veach sign him for cheaper than MVS? Just you and Veach know about Mooney?

Well, friend, you're not getting Tyreek Hill back. By the way-we had diminishing returns two seasons in a row with Hill. Is that Hill's fault? NO, it isn't-the problem was roster problems elsewhere that we needed to invest picks and money in. So we did. And we won a Super Bowl. Less than a year ago.

Now guess what? Half of our defense is up for free agency, and we're going to have to make some pretty tough decisions.

If you think they're going to go drop $25m+ on a WR, you're smoking crack.

They're going to try to draft and develop the next group of stars, and they're going to fill in with affordable vets. It's the only way to challenge for a championship EVERY year of Mahomes' career. And it's not always going to work. Shit happens. Guys don't pan out sometimes. You don't panic, freak out, and mortgage everything just because it didn't work out once.

You get back to work, and you try again. Hopefully wiser.

Going after Mooney as our #1 WR is not what Veach does. Many examples of this. Veach will go after the top WRs in the NFL and Draft. He might not get a deal that makes him pull the trigger but I think its more likely IF he wants Mooney that he gets a true #1 and also adds a guy like Mooney to pair with that #1 guy and Rice. NOT bank on Mooney as our top guy.

Dude, what the **** is up your ass, exactly?


Mooney is on a bad team in a bad situation, but under Nagy was much better.

If he was a 1000 yard guy with Fields, he wouldn't be available.

There is no ****ing way KC is going to go buy a #1 All-Pro WR. None.

****ing forget about it.

I'll gracefully bow out, because we have a fundamental difference in what is considered productive and the assumption that because someone did it once, they can do it again.

Sorry that I'm not interested in more projects that have a better chance of not working out that working out.

But it's okay to spend $20 million/year on a penalty-prone RT?

Look at the top 10 highest WR contracts this year in terms of annual value... 5-10 are close to what the Chiefs are paying Taylor.

DJ Moore is making about $20 million/year in Chicago.

Terry McLaurin is making about $23 million/year in Washington.

Desean Jackson says he's ready and willing to climb aboard this train

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/retired...130035819.html

I think Veach will go after a top NFL WR in a trade or trade up in the draft to get one and not resign Jones. I don't think thats such a crazy idea.

You stated I should find another hobby and stop watching Chiefs football HA. So nothing up my ass just wanted to let you know that Mooney will never be any teams #1 WR and how the post after post about him in far more unbelievable than the idea of Veach going all out for a top NFL or draft WR.

At least I know what to get you for Christmas! Knee pads for when you hang out with your buddy Mooney!

Otwp… Im not super high on Mooney which is why I wasn’t crazy about sending picks for him this year. However, I don’t see this as building a room around him. I want to see us nail a first round pick at WR1. If we end up with even a decent (elite won’t be easy) WR ideally we end up with an outside Wr1 and rashee in the power slot, then mooney immediately provides a serviceable wr1 with the hope that your rookie wr bumps him down to WR2.

I would rather Pittman or Ridley because I feel like these guys are perfect - slightly lower $ and effective (which is what we need… we don’t need to pay the $ for elite). But it wouldn’t bother me at all to save ourselves some money and commit to getting the best possible WR within reason in the draft and view a free agent wr as more insurance vs THE answer. I don’t think there’s any doubt veach will bring in a free agent wr so I know we’ll bring somebody in. My only concern, and it’s just not knowing enough about Mooney, is does he know what he’s doing. I’ll take competence over athleticism at this point.

Ideally a few years from now we keep our foot on the gas and keep drafting WRs so we can avoid the blue chip wr market entirely. If we just hit our pick next year we’re a long way to keeping that issue at peace for a while

I would be shocked if we don’t walk into next year at minimum with a free agent wr of some kind and a first or second round draft pick at wr. Would also be shocked if we didn’t target a decent passing weapon at TE. Other than this offseason what has veach done that leads you to believe he doesn’t respond to crises?

I’m not sure I agree with that.

Veach almost traded and extended AJ Brown before Philly beat us out. That’s straight from AJ.

These WRs are so bad it’s made the position a running joke.

No way are Clark/Andy/Veach going to be ok with the team having that kind of glaring weakness.

The last time we had a laughable position group, look how Veach attacked the problem in FA AND the draft.

I EXPECT them to persue a big time alpha WR in FA AND draft one high.

Why not? Couldn't hurt

I agree. Especially since they directly chose this path. Admit the mistske and fix it in a big way!

I think this is almost exactly what Veach is going to do. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the writing's on the wall.


One thing to think about though, and something Veach/Andy will probably have the inside scoop on, is when Travis is going to retire. Because it's coming sooner than later. I feel like he'll play in 2024, but I have serious doubts he'll play after that. That's mostly gut feeling, but I'm pretty close to certain about it.


If that's the case, I think Veach better bite the bullet and get a FA alpha-dog WR in the building ASAP. Because if you think the offense looks shitty now, just wait until Travis isn't out there (and I mean the global "You" here, not just you, Chris). If there isn't an All-Pro level WR (or TE), and no Travis, just Rice, Toney, Skyy, a rook, and some bargain-basement FA, it's going to be a lot worse than it is right now.

Especially considering it takes more than a single season for WRs to actually absorb the entire playbook.



But like I said at the top, I'm pretty sure we'll go the route CM outlined in his post. Sounds very much like Veach's MO.

I’m in between on it. I agree with the approach of constantly hitting this in the draft. But that may take time bc we may not hit right away so it’s a gamble for veach to sell that to mahomes and the public and fans.

I think the ultimate goal is to get a WR1 and get serious about it. But having 3 very good WRs at a fraction of the cost would probably be fine. Rice, high draft pick, WR2 who can play wr1 until rookie is ready. But weve gotta hit on that pick

Yikes, have to side with Meck here. Mooney is just a good football player. No, he is not a star or an elite talent but you put Mooney on this team this week and everything looks better. Dude is fast, runs nice routes, and catches the ball. If you ever just decide to watch a Bears game you will often see Mooney running wide open but no ball.

Now if you want to say you would like a higher investment that is fair. But Mooney would be a huge get because right now we just need to add ANYONE that is good.

If we did add Mooney as the big FA WR I would also expect us to use another high pick on weapons as well. Maybe move up for your future #1.

I would of course prefer a Davonte, Aiyuk, Godwin etc but those guys would need to be traded for and they ain't cheap.

I mean if we end up with below….

First round wr/Mooney/rice
2nd or 3rd round TE passing weapon
Speed option either wr or speed rb
Keep developing wanya

That’s a really good offseason, yeah? Even as we wait for the rookie wr to grow that feels way better from the jump

Patriots are about to do a hard reset. If they cut Juju then you bet your ass Veach should call him to come back.

He's cheap, will only be 28 next year and Patrick clearly trusted him. His knee issue doesn't seem to be as bad as what people thought.

Not saying that he would be WR1 or that we would stop there, but having him back in the rotation would heal a lot of these wounds.

Oh, I totally agree we have to keep drafting WRs/TEs. Just saying, I don't believe a couple rooks and Rice will replace everything Travis does for the offense, and that goes beyond the stats. DCs fear Travis. I mean, he scares the bejesus out of them. Take him off the field, and a lot of what we want to do gets hamstrung.

When Travis hangs them up, we need to have a guy (or two guys) that scare DCs similar to how Travis has. Imo. Ymmv.


Anyway, we'll see how it pans out. I trust that Veach and Andy will make the right decisions moving forward, whatever they might be.

We need "better than JuJu." That's the goal. Move forward and upwards. JuJu is the equivalent of treading water, or going backwards.

Skyy Moore is the equivalent of treading water or going backwards. Juju was a 1k caliber WR that Patrick trusted here. He's also cheap as hell.

Again that doesn't mean he's WR1 or that we fix the problem by only signing him.

If you could kick Skyy Moore's dumbass to the curb and replace him with Juju this offense gets massively better. Due to him being cheap, you can now get your other guys.

Calvin Ridley
Rice
Juju
1st rd WR
Toney (gadget)
Watson
3rd/4th rd WR to develop

Give me that all ****ing day

We do but if JuJu wants to play here for let's say the Mecole contract he can come back anytime.


Dude was a pro that battled on banged up legs to help us win the ring last year and if you can get those guys and they are affordable I would love the signing.

Yeah I totally get travis’ monster role in this offense. But I think there’s a lot to be said about surrounding mahomes with a deep chart of very good WRs until we find a dawg. I’m good with swinging for that in the draft and missing as long as we keep at it even when we miss. We’re plenty good enough without it, but we know we can cook when we have it

I think juju makes us better but I also feel like a big part of our regression is that defenses can defend what we’re trying to do. So i think we need a different type of wr. More Rashees, less jujus. Definitely not niche guys who do one thing well, except to round out the back where we can use them as role players

100% agree

JuJu compliments Rice. Rice is the better athlete that can play the boundary.

JuJu is the vet that gets open in the middle of the field.


Yes, we also need deep threats but we can tool box that a bit.

If we sign Hollywood or Mooney that's one.

Plus draft is fun identifying speed guys that can play as later round picks.

Tyler Scott was my guy last year and I wished we had grabbed him.

A few years ago I was asking for Mooney or Duvernay as my WR sleepers. That wasn't a bad draft as both those guys are good and went late.

Bring hot dogs. :D

Nah, go get a legit guy and lets these other guys feed off him.

Trade for Aiyuk or trade up in the draft. Do both, hell I don't care.

This board's server would break if that happened.

Well, I hope you guys are right and I turn out to be wrong. And that’s about all I have to say on the subject at this point, other than “Trust in Veach.”

I absolutely love the idea of rashee being more of a power slot. Surround him with weapons and the things we’re asking him to do now will melt faces. Christian Watson isn’t all that great but we saw last week how much more limited Jayden reed is as a similar type of weapon without Watson.

I think rashee could also be an effective fuller time outside option. But we know he is elite in this role.

You need to let the Aiyuk dream go. He's only $14 million on the 5th year option. Can't see them letting him go

I don't know. I think Veach's style is go all out on the biggest need and be aggressive in getting it fixed with a top talent.

Example would be we needed a DE...Veach goes and get the best he could in Frank Clark with high draft capital.

Needed tackle upgrade after Bucs killed Mahomes...Veach goes and gets OBJ jr. but that was after he went all out for Trent Williams, the best tackle in the NFL, and almost got him! THEN when OBJ jr came up for contract Veach went after Tunsil!

YES I do think Veach's approach for most positions is to get cheap vets and draft BUT if he has a big need like pass rush or OT has been the last couple of years he goes all out and is very aggressive. I see WR being this off seasons OT!

And YES I 100% believe he would give up draft pick/s and pay $20M for a top WR after what the team is going through this season. Thats still cheaper than what Hill would have been costing.

Just stop with the RT bullshit. That money was being spent on OBJ or Taylor. So again you think we should have rolled with Niang, a rookie and Wylie and the best 2 start?

I mostly agree about Travis BUT he might want to top TG in yards. If that's the case he might try to play another 3 or 4 years.

I think you’ll see a very different energy from mahomes and Travis if we can just give them help. Travis is worn down because for 10 years the best strategy has been to beat the shit out of him at the line.

Give him help and manage way more of his minutes. Let the offense fly again and you’ll see this guy amped the **** up.

But it begins first with asking him to do way way less.

Nah, they'll trade him this offseason cause he'll bring back a 1 atleast.

And a big physical WR like Evans or who ever would go soo far in doing this. Tired of these little fast guys.

He's 34 goin on 35. Those days are over. No reason to plan on it anymore.

I don’t think we can plan on the same version of kelce. But I wouldn’t at all rule out an effective kelce in a way more limited role.

Aiyuk, Pittman, or Ridley to a lesser degree.

Otherwise move up and get that legit guy - but I'm damn sick of us taking half measures at the position.

Kelce is still the best TE in the game even with the entire defense draping him. Imagine pulling some of those defenders off and adding an extra TE to both manage his reps and provide an extra TE option. that and I think the motivation to end on a high note. I think he can have a very effective season next year but only if he gets help. A lot of it.

Agree with the bigger body, but not someone who is gonna be 31 years old next season.

Nobody gives a shit if he's a NUMBER ONE WR.

Nobody uses that terminology but fantasy football.

Is he a useful player? Is he a player that can probably give you more production than his pricetag? yeah.

Half of the defense is up for new contracts, not just Jones.

They'll certainly bring in a vet, but it's far more likely to be a middle-class type like a Mooney (or even a Brown, although I'm less a fan) than a blockbuster trade for Brandon Aiyuk or something.

mere competency in the WR room, and we're probably undefeated.

I think you guys are underselling just how bad these guys have become. And I say become, because they weren't THIS bad last year. And every single one has regressed to unplayable. That's ****ing nuts.

Rice is going to basically replaces Juju's production, but every single other WR, all of whom were here last year, and at different times stepped up, made a big play to help win games-all of them are suddenly completely incompetent, can't run a route, can't catch a ball, can't even line up onsides.

So no, I don't think going nuclear and ****ing your future cap is what is needed. ****ing NFL caliber WR's is what is needed. You still need to draft and develop your next group of stars.

And you are leaving Donovan Smith out of your nonsensical response... because?

Because it doesn't fit your dumbshit narrative?

Donovan Smith at LT and Wylie at RT... $11 million combined/year.

This was the year for the defense, it's time is over.

They're gonna go build the offense now, so yeah, the whole "#1 WR is fantasy talk" shit is not that.

A #1 WR is a guy you can force feed targets to and don't have to do any other bullshit to get him open. Pay him, throw him the ball, fill in the rest around him and be done with it.

Mvs regressed to the mean. The others are basically what they were, it was just papered over last year with RB scores and the QB playing like no other QB has.

We aren't gonna count on that to happen anymore, so it's high time to spend on some weapons.

His knees are a time bomb.

The number 2 and number 4 players on PFF in most pressure given up among tackles.

We did that last year and Patrick got hurt.

Ummmm....Randy Moss was 30 when he went to the pats.

THIS.

I mean, Mike Evans is a great WR - but he's not in the ballpark of Randy Moss.

Not to mention, if you all hate dropped passes as much as I think you do?

Lol, you know you’re posting in the DHop thread? Wanna take a guess at Hopkins’ age?

That was gonna be a 1 or 2 deal deal, max.

Mike Evans is going to want double of what Hopkins got, and probably double the term or more.

you'll be surprised at how similar their numbers are if you compare 29 to 29 or 30 to 30 (years old).

https://nflcomparisons.com/randy-mos...ns-comparison/

I think I'm out on Aiyuk unless everything falls apart. I'd rather pay Calvin Ridley and keep the 1st rd pick to add 2 talents instead of just 1.

Ridley is the only "alpha" that really worries me.

Pittman would be a ****ing beast in this offense, I just don't see the Colts letting him walk.

Not taking any viable receiver EXCEPT an All-Pro #1WR, it's either that or NOTHING is stupid.

If a guy has done it before, under this OC, in THIS system, and is 26 years old and likely to be inexpensive, you nab him. Mooney wouldn't preclude any other move, and gives you a young WR that's had an 80/1000 yard season.

You don't stop there. You don't call it good. You still fill the rest of the room with viable options with upside, but saying **** NO, HE'S NOT A #1WR is ****ing stupid.

**** no, he didn't.

He's a career 50% catch rate guy on what was previously almost entirely deep passes. That's fine, it is what it is, it's a useful skill-set. Now he can't catch a ****ing cold.

He's regressed to unplayable. He wasn't unplayable before. He's got the yips, it's in his head, he's ****ing terrible. Big difference from a #3 type deep threat that he's always been.

But you can see what we meant when we talked about WR1/wr2. We need adaptable WRs. Not a bunch of niche guys who play 1 specific role. We can’t have a bunch of 500-700 yard WRs let alone ones who can’t adapt to play outside their role. Those are great guys to fill the back of the wr depth chart not the front. Our plan was for WR1 to be a gadget guy who not surprisingly couldn’t adapt outside of that, wr2 to be a clearout guy, our slot guy was primarily a man beater who we thought could catch and run but had clear limitations beyond that. Rice is the only guy we have who feels like a Swiss Army knife and even still, we don’t fully know if he can consistently beat man coverage at the top level we need from a primary option.

That’s the bare minimum. We can’t even do that. Let alone the additional layer of WRs who can consistently and reliably run the right route (let alone a great one), catch a pass (let alone a difficult or contested pass). So we have a bunch of role players who are total inconsistent messes adjusting to the route and to the ball. That’s why we need a WR1. At the very least have the versatility to do lots of things, but for the love of god let’s finally give mahomes some guys who can work to get the ball just as hard as he works to get the ball to them.