Gang, man up and stop being a bunch of crying pussies! We've know all year about the type of team we have! So we play a bad half, gassed from the previous game, injuries, transfers, players let go ...... so what, it's reality, man up!

Thesis: The roster issues for Kansas this season were exacerbated by recruiting a player who was going to be playing in the rotation that had a prior legal matter. This could have in part been avoided by recruiting another player, amongst the hundreds in the portal, who did not have said history.

This is a team and season best forgotten. Thanks for at least winning in round one and saving us from looking like kentucky.

Be nice to say good game and year, but it is what it is. Time to end it, and bring on next year.

It's officially baseball season for me.

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I would say they were far more exacerbated by wasting scholarships on Timberlake and Elmarko. At least with those two the fact that they were shitty basketball players should have been something at least foreseeable compared to a guy engaging in rape the first time he set foot on campus.

Moreover, on a positive note, as I mentioned a couple nights ago, apparently with us winning in the first round, it was the 17th straight season a Kansas team has won at least one game in the tourney, that is second only to North Carolina's 18 year run from 1981-1989. Next year we can tie history, and in 2026, claim history. So that's something kinda cool to look forward to.

Even our worst season under Self in literal decades is better than Calipari’s UK in the NIL era, so that’s at least something.

hopefully hunter doesn't come back

The difference is they actually played vs Morris never played a single minute. Yeah, recruiting them probably didn’t help with the depth issue, but they did eat some minutes.

Ah, yes, losing in the second round is substantially better than losing in the first (NIL was legal and went into effect in summer of 2021).

Yeah, no. Everyone involved with this program should very much be hoping he does. Easily one of the best players in NCAA and would be even better on a team with actual shooting.

You don't want to watch this team w/o Hunter. I promise you that. We need Furphy to stick around and sprout a pair of testicles and get some shooters around HD

It is, yes. Glad we agree that losing to Gonzaga is better than losing to St. Peter’s and Oakland.

Or, you know, being Mizzou or K-State and not even being good enough to make the tournament.

Those numbers don't check out on the Carolina run, but I get what you're saying.

That was all I really needed. I didn't want us to lose to a team that plays like a girls 7th grade team. And the streak is nice.

I think the first round choker thing has faded because of that, but remember after the Bucknell and then Bradley losses for a long time our name would come up when anyone would talk about first round choke jobs.

Do you think the fanbase would still be at Calipari’s throat if he lost today instead of Thursday?

The answer is yes.

Also, pretty sure in Lawrence they don’t raise banners for making it to the round of 32 just like in Lexington. They might in Lincoln, NE though.

This program won a title two years ago with a slow footed big with a limited offensive game with no shot blocking or passing ability. Yeah, HD is definitely not the problem with this group.

I dunno, I guess I blame myself for regurgitating a stat Scott Van Pelt puked up a couple nights ago. My bad.

UK fans have been asking for Calipari to get fired now for a literal decade now, so I’m not sure this proves what you think it does.

I want athletic bigs who can actually add something to the game when shots aren't falling

I want shooting around one of the most skilled bigs in the country.

He's been the bright spot

This is the first time since after the 2015 loss that I think it’s impossible to defend him for season performances.

That’s including the St.Peters loss and 9-16.

It's nice to play to your seed and for or a 4 or 5, that's the 2nd round. :shrug:

They’ve been badly underachieving as a program for many years now. Too bad for you guys that you’re stuck with him. No way he is getting bought out for over 30M.

Self is arguably the best coach in the sport, but Kansas hasn’t made it out of the first weekend four of the last five tournaments (during that time he also has a championship).

K lost to a 14 and 15 2 out of 3 seasons at Duke a little more than a decade ago. Shit happens.

Many? More like the last 4 full seasons. Well, 3 of the 4. I think they actually over performed in 2022-2023.

Hunter's probably not leaving.
Dajuan's not leaving
KJ's not leaving and he'll start
Hopefully Furphy would rather improve his game at KU than the G League.

The answer like KCC has said is shooters. We need a couple of 3 pt shooting wings.

Incoming we have Rakease Passmore as a 4* SF. Can't say I know much about him he's the #42 ranked player in the nation #10 SF. Also have Labaron Philon, #32 player, #3 PG. And then of course Flory Bidunga, #10 and #3 Center.

Not sure the incoming class really has what we need unless Passmore is a marksman.

ahem...

https://manoswine.com/cdn/shop/produ...copy_1024x.jpg

They always conveniently forget the 2020 title.

There wasn’t a tournament in 2020.

This can be the wimmen's thread. Beat USC!

Check who finished on top of the AP and Coaches Polls that year.

I don’t follow women’s college basketball, but I have to imagine that would be the biggest upset in program history.

I am using 2020-2021 as the start of tangible decline of Kentucky’s performance. The year in which Kentucky had literally their worst season in program history.

2019-2020 wasn’t during that time frame, hence why I did not include that season.

Last 4 tournament losses under Bill: 16, 14, 34, 21. That's a problem...

He won the championship two years ago, missed the tournament following heart surgery last year, and then had his best player opt out of the tournament to protect his draft stock this year.

Context matters.

Not sure there's some smoking gun to all of this though... they were on a great Final Four run before everything went wrong against Villanova while Villanova couldn't miss a shot. They had no depth this year and then lost their leading scorer.

I mean, they've also been one of the best teams in the country three times in that stretch. :shrug:

If we didn't have '22 to look back on I might be more upset about this.

But we do, and that matters a lot.

2019 and 2024 both lost their best players for the season. You just don’t have another Doke or McCullar on your bench. No team does.

2021 was a screwy Covid year. Just throw that one out.

2017 was an Elite Eight matchup against a good Oregon team, but what also happened that year? Oh yeah, losing a starting center to injury.

So basically, we’re going to have a bad loss in the tournament when we lose a star player to injury. Shocking.

2018 Nova was just a historically great team. No shame there.

We got them back in 2022. So it’s all good.

Also leaving out last year's loss just because Self wasn't coaching is pretty dishonest. Like they were some scrappy rag tag team that overperformed because of a backup coach and Self shouldn't get credit.

Actual results in the NCAA Tournament is meaningless especially with team turn over every year. Nobody really knows what your going to get. Just shows of your team is lucky.

Consistent high seeding is all that matters.

Self would not have lost to Arkansas.

Ncaa tournament isn't a "crapshoot". A good team will almost certainly win it every year.

I think of it like a weighted lottery.

Luck certainly plays a role, but being a good team that can create matchup problems will always give you a better chance.

And then we'll watch Uconn win another one.

I’ll just say that the 2022 team was almost certainly not a top 5 Self team, but it was a Self team that had probably the most favorable draw of any Self team ever. Luck plays a huge role in the tournament.

Lol no it doesn't. Luck is a KU fan cope.

How does uconn keep winning it, are they the luckiest team of the 21st century?

They’ve done it with 3 coaches, so probably.

It’s not like it’s one coach that’s figured out some formula to win it all.

That doesn't NOT make it a crapshoot, IMO.

You'll generally have 4 teams that win ~85-90% of the regular season games and it's pretty rare they all make it to the national semifinals... what other league has such a high winning percentage for its best teams, yet such a low chance of even making it to the semifinals, much less winning it all?

Hell, UConn was a 4 seed last year and was barely ranked in mid-February... they were 4th in their division. No other league allows them to play for a championship.

If all of the 1 seeds made it every year, or even most of them, I'd tend to agree that end of the day, the best teams win every year... but, IMO the fact that most of those teams don't make it out of their region for even a chance to play the last two games makes it far more random than any other league.

UConn is about the worst possible example of "good teams win NCs" and the best example of luck that their is for March Madness.

They were at one point ranked as high as #2 and then straight stomped everyone on their way to winning that title.

****ing Kevin Ollie won a title as a 7 seed

It’s indisputable that luck plays some role.

Hell, look at the 2022 Kansas team. Creighton lost a star right before playing us. Nova lost a star right before playing us. Even Bacot got hurt against Duke and played injured against us.

Cuts both ways though. Simien getting hurt in 2003 probably cost us a title. 2014 was wide open for Embiid to take over that tournament too.

Exactly right. The tournament is all luck.

Mizzou is the unluckiest team in history. We would have multiple national titles if we didn’t keep getting shitty luck and bad draws in the tournament literally every single time we make it.

Them’s the bounces though.

I'd say missing free throws cost KU that title in 2003 more than anything. Hit your season average and you hang another banner.

Sounds kinda lucky for Syracuse that KU went 12-30, huh?

And I don’t think it’s all luck. Or even mostly luck.

Luck is just a part of it, like any sport.

What is luck?

Yeah, they started 14-0 because they had the 202nd non-con SoS... they deserved their 4 seed by the end of the year though, making them the ~13-16th best team in the country.

If it was CFB, they'd be no where near invited.
If it was the NFL, it would be like the Bucs winning the SB.
If it was the NBA, it would be like a play-in team winning it all (no idea if that happens, I rarely watch).
...and so on. MLB is about the only league where that might be possible, but baseball is a far more 50/50 sport.

And if my aunt had a dick she would be my uncle

Could make the same argument about a NBA MVP in Rose missing free throws in 2008 for Memphis, though.

I think in general fans really put the blinders on to how much luck and randomness plays into winning... it's obviously not some black and white argument and I do believe in the old saying "the harder you work, the luckier you get"... but, even with all of the advantages of having Mahomes in a league with so few SB contenders and only needing to win 3-4 games.... the Chiefs have had luck on both sides when it comes to literal luck with coin flips or a punt going off a foot, etc.

A lot of fans seem to take winning and losing personally, like saying luck invalidates a team's accomplishments or is an excuse.... but for CBB, across 6 games, especially taking refs calls into account, bad bounces, your path to the FF suddenly changing when the 2 seed in the way loses before you play them, etc, etc....

Does Kansas win the NC if they play a team higher than 10 in the EE or they don't draw an 8 seed (granted, it was still UNC)? Maybe.. maybe not. I'd say drawing Miami was pretty lucky.

I'd say UConn drawing a FF of San Diego State, Miami, and FAU was pretty damn lucky.

Doesn't change the fact that the 2008 KU basketball team was a top 10 all time squad

Exactly, it's a crapshoot.

LMAO

I put this season on Self. He should have recruited better shooters.

He has two spots tied up with sub par talent. KJ should be the 6th man off the bench on a potential Tournament winner team. Harris has fallen off a cliff.

So why didn’t recruit more shooters? Is there a consensus opinion?

2022 is basically my ideal college basketball roster construction.

4 guys who can handle the ball in the starting lineup with a center who can dominate down low. 3 of the guards are big wings who can defend multiple positions. 2-3 dangerous 3-point shooters on the court at all times. Experienced bench with at least one major scoring option.

That wasn’t the best team we’ve had, but that construction is what I like in college basketball.

Self had A LOT of shitty luck this year though.

He took a chance on Arterio (who absolutely would’ve helped), which failed spectacularly.

Elmarko never looked like a McDonald’s AA. He really needed to be what Sherron was as a freshman (which isn’t unreasonable given his recruit ranking). That just didn’t happen.

Timberlake was one of those shooters we needed, but his game just didn’t translate to real college basketball.

McCullar injury was a killer. Furphy hitting the wall was a killer.

We were also down scholarships which hurt bad.

:rolleyes:

Maybe if each round was best of seven.

Almost certainly?

Most years the best team has, what, maybe a one in four of winning according to Vegas betting odds at the start of the tournament?

What does next year’s team look like?

With the transfer portal, it’s anyone’s guess.

If Dickinson and Furphy come back and we sign McNeeley, then I’ll have very high hopes.

If Dickinson leaves, then we’ll be looking at starting Adams and Bidunga together. If you didn’t like the spacing this year, then you really won’t like that.

Ya despite him being a Bills fan I do want him back lolz

I think part of it is KJ didn't develop. Early they tried to play him a bit outside, which he was awful at, so they went back to him as a slasher role.

Some of it is Elmarko didn't develop and in fact, got worse.

Furphy regressing hurt.

We were close. The team that beat UConn and UK was a goddamn good team that had a shot to win it all. As it ended up that team didn't make it to the end.

I don't know WTF they were doing with McCullar early. I'm guessing They were trying to make him appealing to an NBA team. But he wore down last year, and then they upped his usage. I made posts in this thread about it. You could see it coming from a mile away. He wasn't going to make it.

It's frustrating Timberlake finally played well. If he'd have played like he did in the tournament, he could have spelled some of our guys through the year.

Nah, it's just the truth. There have been plenty of better Self KU teams than 2022 but they didn't have the good fortune of having the draw around them completely crash.

Yes, absolutely.

Luck is getting a really mediocre UNC team in the NCAA final rather than an Anthony Davis-led Kentucky team.

Is anybody really taking the 2022 KU team straight up against the 2012 KU team if they played a series of games?

Imagine if this team had Arterio Morris and Harrison Ingram.

KJ really needs to be the 6th man coming off the bench, as a lot of others have mentioned. If he or Coach Self doesnt want him to be, he possibly could be more valuable to the football team. Add some pounds, he could be a great T.E. :-)