Good timing. Unfortunately for Shelby Miller, he wasn't eligible for FA after his one good season. I could see him getting something similar if his 2013 season was his 2018 season. Hard to tell how Weaver will really trend. He has the stuff to trend better and be a steal, but so did Miller.

They waited till Darvish fell to a more manageable $125m mega-bust.

Less detrimental than your future manager.

You can take $125m straight up the ass no-lube, I'll take the bench coach for $250k.

That's fine. It's not my money. I'll stick with the guy that can only hurt himself rather than the guy that will **** up the entire organization.

Does Bill Bavasi still work with any organizations? We could use another "Kent Bottenfield for Jimmy Edmonds" trades.

Talk about selling high.

That's the telltale sign a fan has reached the "acceptance" stage of grief.

Grief of what?

The Cubs could still go out and spend money on 1 guy that would be more than your entire teams payroll. Ask me if I care.

Have fun with you heir apparent.

I don't have the heart to tell you which side of that trade we'd be on these days...

Welp - at least I can now say that I once tackled the Cubs pitching coach...

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/12/06...itching-coach/

Good dude; valedictorian of my class at Park Hill South and captain of...well everything. See, if I'd have been any good, I wouldn't have gotten all those scout-team reps and gotten a few licks in. So kids, if you suck at football, maybe some day you too can tackle someone who ends up being a successful athlete(ish)!

They could do that, and the Royals will still have had a better decade.

Go start a cubs thread, you're worse than hootie.

If anyone misses Luke Weaver, please go back and watch his last two outings of the season.

Apparently they give him a lot of credit for Arrieta and Hendricks. Should be interesting.

I dont want to say too much more because BDj23s vagina might start bleeding all over the place.

everyone says we raped the Backs. So it doesn’t matter if Weaver turns it around. I’m not going to kill the Cardinals over the trade.
I’m tired of trading prospects when they are worth nothing of their former selfs.
Trades of young prospects that bite us in the ass later is not the major issue with the Cardinals FO.. People should beat the hell out of them for the bullpen.

What I tell you, jdirt1020, no one wants you around.

That's ok. I'll still be here providing more Cardinals discussion since the Goldschmidt trade than BDipshitj23.

That's why your parents left you at the Grand Canyon.

The Astros have a better farm than we do and a bigger need at 1b than we do and chose not to trump that offer.

28 other teams also chose not to top it.

'Everyone' has disengaged their brains, you included, if they're going to continue to harp on this 'fleece' crap.

It flies in the face of all logic, projections and basic math.

They are Cardinals fans.

I've been working 12 hour shifts since the goldschmidt trade, ya jackass.

That doesn't take away from the fact you are annoying af and derail this thread into a Cubs discussion.

I didnt derail anything.

I was talking about the Cardinals when I made my comment. If you actually read more than "Cubs" you could have probably comprehended that.

You're right, I'm the first one to tell you to start a cubs thread because you don't derail anything. :rolleyes:

About the only time I carry on a Cubs discussion in this thread is when something I say is taken out of context simply because I've related it to the Cubs and I respond to it.

Cry me a river.

I got ran over by William Moore when I was a freshman 160 lb starting safety on the varsity. Blocked a hansbrough dunk once at camp only for him to get the rebound and dunk on top of me.

Biggest claim to fame probably was getting an interception off chase Patton in intramural flag football. House called him.

We still lost badly

Only mildly successful athlete I ever played with was Rich McBride who played basketball for Illinois and is now an assistant coach for some college team. We went to the same high school but he was 3 years ahead of me. We played a couple pickup games of basketball in gym. One game he called me out because I was the one player on the other team that he hadn't schooled yet and he was a bit cocky about it and I ended up stealing the ball and taking it the other way for a lay up. Another time we were on the same team and I tossed him an alley-oop. But he was probably like 10 inches taller than me at the time so there were plenty of times when he just swatted my shit away like it was nothing.

Other than that only names around my area that come to mind that have actually made it are Andre Iguodala who also went to my high school, but before my time, and Jayson Werth.

When i played football in 7th grade i once picked off Xavier Omon (drafted by the bills in 2008) ran balls to the wall toward the endzone only to have him blow me up out of nowhere.

This a practice. I hated playing football

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We are deeply saddened to hear of the passing of former Angel Luis Valbuena and former MLB infielder José Castillo. Our thoughts and prayers are with their loved ones during this time of grief. <a href="https://t.co/GxegOtJXuB">pic.twitter.com/GxegOtJXuB</a></p>&mdash; Angels (@Angels) <a href="https://twitter.com/Angels/status/1070937328061886464?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Another car crash.

He's supposed to be a "journalist" with journalistic integrity. He's supposed to be different from others. Report the facts. The team is struggling, Fowler and Matheny havent talked in months, Mathenys favoring players, young players cant go to the manager and he doesn't say shit. UNTIL Mathenys gone, then he's like, yeah I've known this for months. :eek: And then in chat they ask him why he didnt report this to the fans as per his job....doesnt answer the question.
We all know why? He reports anything negative other than stuff we already know, he will lose access. Whats the point of having access then?

He is a good foil to discuss rivalry shit. His takes are hilariously biased. Livens up the thread, Thats just me. This thread has been going 13 years, I don't think we have ever banned anyone from this thread. Even the asshole trolls that come in every once in a while. If people want him gone, speak up.

We've banned Hootie many times

He doesnt count. He was banned everywhere multiple times.:harumph:

I dont want to ban him, i just think if he wants to talk about the Cubs, he should start a Cubs thread.

Should take a look at Greinke. He'll be free, well, outside the 3/100 owed. That's a 4-win guy too. Would put you tied with Mil and Cubs if you did it.

All 3 will be rebuilding in the next 2-3 years so you might as well blow your load now while you still have 87 win talent.

I don't want Zack Greinke anywhere near a clubhouse of a team I root for.

Why? He's a baller.

Agreed.

By all accounts, we are not getting some asshole. Someone to root for anyway.



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;The most interesting thing about Mr. Goldschmidt is we couldn’t find anything negative about him. Nothing. … When you think of the St. Louis Cardinals, he just seems like the perfect fit.&quot; -- <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> president of baseball ops John Mozeliak</p>&mdash; Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LangoschMLB/status/1071081280945700864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
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He's a ****ing nut.

And look - guys can start pitching backwards or find a new off-speed pitch to get by as their velocity declines for awhile. They can even have a pretty significant stumble in there and for at least a year figure it out.

But Greinke's throwing 89-90 now. His rope is gone. His margin for error is effectively zero and pitching backwards only works for as long as its unexpected. Once hitters realize that he's using his offspeed to set up the 'heat', they're gonna knock his ass around.

He's been a pitching savant since he was 19 years old so I have no doubt that he'll pitch more effectively at 89 mph than most guys would at that speed, but it's not a tenable long-term plan and there are 3 years left on that deal. The odds of him being at 87 next year are better than the odds of him being at 91 and if that's what he's working with, he's a pinata waiting to happen.

And he's a ****ing nut.

{wank} :holdman:

Same shit we heard about Fowler. I'm completely disinterested in this 'Cardinal way' shit from this front office. It's a tagline to them and little else.

That's how they'll win back the 'fans' that are still upset about Mikey Dreamboats departure.

Maybe. But, way too much out there to be just PR BS put out by the Cardinals.


I've read accounts by others of his time in AZ, personal interactions with him over the years and they all say he works hard, keeps his head down and respectful to everyone. Not an asshole.I'm sure he's no choir boy but as far as professional athletes go, I'd rather root for that type than someone like Grienke or a conceited selfish player.

Gosh, a top-10 hitter and 5 win guy is a perfect fit? What a bold statement. I'd really give that quote a lot of credence. Gm stepped out on that limb

My point is that it doesn't matter. Yeah - he's probably a nice guy. Who gives a shit?

Albert is pretty much a churlish shithead and we loved him. Dexter Fowler is everyone's buddy and he's an EASY player to loathe. Kyle Lohse is mud to many and he was a great dude; Chris Carpenter is a standoffish prick and he's revered.

It doesn't matter. You'll root for him if he's good, you won't if he isn't. We can argue to the contrary all we want but it's just simple reality.

It's nice if our great players are also standup guys, but it's secondary. You'll forget about it the moment he strikes out on a slider in the dirt with the bases loaded and 1 out.

I'd root for satan himself if it got us a WS trophy.

Bernie Miklasz - Don’t Worry About the Future. Paul Goldschmidt Is a Cardinal For 2019. Be Happy.
https://www.101sports.com/2018/12/06...2019-be-happy/

When the Cardinals acquired Arizona first baseman Paul Goldschmidt, I couldn’t help but think of Albert Pujols. The Cards haven’t had a talent of Pujols’ caliber since he left as a free agent in the winter of 2011, weeks after the team had won its 11th World Series title.

Until Wednesday’s announcement — Goldy to St. Louis — the true-superstar void remained unfilled for seven seasons. I’m not saying that Goldschmidt, the hitter, reaches the standard of the peak-form version of Pujols.

Pujols won three league MVP awards, two World Series rings and three National League pennants during his 11 seasons in St. Louis. Even with his consistency of greatness, Goldschmidt can’t match the young Pujols.

Though, in some ways, the gap isn’t as wide as you’d assume. In his first seven seasons (2001-2007) as a Cardinal, Pujols averaged 42 homers, 128 RBIs and had a OPS+ of 167. In his first seven seasons as a D-back Goldschmidt averaged 32 homers, 107 RBIs, and had a 146 OPS+.

And let’s get this part out of the way. No, Goldschmidt isn’t the “face of the franchise.”

That’s premature and overly ambitious; Goldschmidt can become a free agent after the 2019 season. There’s no way to know if this relationship will last and endure. A one-season stay does not make Goldy — or any star — a “face of the franchise.” No player is a face of a franchise if he wears the uniform of the franchise for one seasonal cycle of baseball.

(When my beloved Orioles acquired Oakland A’s slugger Reggie Jackson before the 1976 season, Baltimore fans went nuts … including me … it was about the coolest thing, ever. The future Hall of Fame power hitter — charismatic, flamboyant, tempestuous, dramatic, self-absorbed — was an Oriole? Baltimore was his baseball home base? Wow. But never did I see Reggie as the “face of the franchise.” Because he was passing through on his way to free agency. And sure enough — it was only 100 percent predictable — Jackson signed with the NY Yankees after the season. But that was all right. It was a blast watching Reggie swing for the fences every damn time he stepped into the batter’s box at old Memorial Stadium.)

Even if Goldschmidt enjoys playing for the Cardinals in a very special baseball town, it will be difficult to seal the relationship through a long-term contract extension. After a 162-game sampling of STL baseball, will Goldschmidt stay here, or go shopping? I have no idea. And at this moment no one else knows, either.

But what is the point of worrying about this now?

For now, I believe we can agree on this much:

A) The Cardinals have a more talented team and are a stronger postseason contender after adding Goldschmidt.

B) In closing the deal with the Diamondbacks, the Cardinals did no long-term damage to their future by parting with catcher Carson Kelly, right-handed starting pitcher Luke Weaver, Class AA infield prospect Andy Young and a Round B compensation pick in the 2019 draft.

C) The Cardinals have added a substantial talent who warrants a place on any short-list discussion of the best players in baseball.

If you’re skeptical of that claim, I’m happy to help out. So read on …

1. Goldschmidt, who had his first full season with Arizona in 2012, is a six-time All-Star. He’s won three Gold Glove awards for defense. He’s earned four Silver Slugger awards for his offense. He’s received MVP votes in five seasons — twice coming in second.

2. Two MLB players have finished among the top three of their league MVP voting three times since 2013: Mike Trout, and Goldschmidt.

3. Since his second MLB season (2013), Goldschmidt ranks third among MLB players (minimum 3,000 plate appearances) with 32.9 Wins Above Replacement. The only stars with more WAR are Trout (54.0) and Josh Donaldson (35.6.)

4. Since 2013, among MLB hitters with a minimum 3,000 plate appearances, Goldschmidt ranks fourth at 49 percent above the league average offensively in park adjusted runs created. (He trails Trout, Joey Votto and Miguel Cabrera.)

5. Since 2013, among hitters with at least 3,000 PA, Goldy is fourth in slugging (.541) , third in onbase percentage (.406), second in OPS (.947), second in runs batted in (602), eighth in homers (181), sixth in doubles (215) and 23rd in stolen bases (102.)

6. According to ESPN Stats & Info, Goldschmidt has 201 home runs and 120 stolen bases since 2012. And Trout is the only other player to have that same exacta combination.

7. Goldschmidt is one of only three players to have posted at least 4.5 Wins Above Replacement in every season since 2013. The others are Trout (of course!) and starting pitcher Max Scherzer.

8. At the end of his age-27 season, Goldy linked with Hall of Famer Eddie Murray as the only two first basemen in major-league history with two Gold Gloves and a home run title.

9. Since the start of the 2013 season, the top two first basemen in the majors for Defensive Runs Saved are Anthony Rizzo (56), and Goldschmidt (52.)

10. Since 2012, Goldschmidt has been credited with +50 Defensive Runs Saved while playing first base. Since 2012, Cardinals’ first basemen were credited with a combined +4 Defensive Runs Saved.

11. Goldschmidt has been charged with 38 errors (total) over the last seven seasons. Cardinals’ first basemen were charged with 80 errors over the last seven seasons.

12. Goldschmidt leads all MLB first basemen with 13.4 Base Running Runs since 2013. His 120 stolen bases since 2012 lead all MLB first basemen over that time; no other 1st-B-man has more than 77 steals since 2012. Cardinals’ first basemen have combined for 26 steals since 2012.

13. In securing Goldschmidt, the Cardinals have upgraded a lineup that fired too many blanks from the No. 3 lineup spot last season. In the rankings of the 30 MLB teams for quality from the third lineup slot, St. Louis finished 26th in batting average (.243), 24th in onbase percentage (.317), 29th in slugging percentage (.399), 28th in OPS (.716) and 27th in park adjusted runs created (wRC+.) Not pretty.

14. From 2013 through 2018, Goldschmidt had 3,215 plate appearances from his post as the No. 3 hitter and batted .299 with a .408 OBP and .530 slugging pct. That’s a .938 OPS. And in park adjusted runs created, he was 47 percentage above the league average offensively when batting third. This isn’t just an incremental upgrade. This is a HUGE upgrade.

15. Arizona’s home ballpark is a haven for hitters. But don’t worry about Goldschmidt padding his stats by being a force at home and a flop on the road. During his career with the D-backs Goldschmidt had a .962 OPS at home and a .933 OPS on the road. He slugged .545 at home; .537 on the road. He was 48 percent above league average offensively at home in park adjusted runs created — and a little better on the road at 49 percent above the league average in park adjusted runs created. He homered every 18.3 at-bats at home and banged a homer ever 18.1 at-bats on the road.

16. The right-handed hitting Goldschmidt does substantial harm to lefty pitchers but is formidable against RH pitching as well. During his big-league career Goldschmidt has a 1.036 OPS vs. lefties, and a .901 OPS vs. RH. His slugging percentage is .600 vs. lefties; .516 against RH. He’s performed 71 percent above league average vs. left-handers, but has been superb (38 percent above average) vs. RHP.

17. Goldschmidt appears to enjoy swinging the bat in games against NL Central pitching. Here are his combined stats against the Cards’ division competitors — Cubs, Brewers, Pirates, and Reds: .287 batting average, .412 OBP, .563 slug, .975 OPS and a home run every 12 at-bats.

18. To reaffirm the obvious: this is an upgrade at first base. From 2013 through 2018, Arizona led the majors with 32.1 WAR at first base. The Cardinals were No. 8 at first base with 21.8 WAR over that time. Arizona’s .907 OPS at first base since 2012 is the best in the majors at the position; the Cardinals ranked eighth with an .802 OPS — a 105-point difference. Based on park adjusted runs created Arizona was 22 percent better offensively at first base than the Cardinals over the past seven seasons.

19. I’ll spare you the stats, but the Cardinals’ hitters were pretty awful (as a group) when facing relievers last season, ranking poorly in multiple performance categories. Last season 30 of Goldy’s 59 hits vs. relievers went for extra bases (just under 51%.) That extra-base percentage vs. relievers ranked 11th best in the majors.

20. Is Goldschmidt clutch? Yeah, you could say that. In two-out high-leverage situations with runners in scoring position during his career, Goldy has an .866 OPS and is 18 percent above the league average in those situations. Last season, with two out and runners and scoring position, Goldschmidt slugged .702 with a 1.140 OPS. In “Late and Close” situations he slugged .537 and had a .965 OPS. When the game was tied, he slugged .623 with a 1.040 OPS.

This is one of the best players in baseball.

And Cardinals fans will love this guy.

This is a good thing — if only for a season.

There’s the other part of this new, promising relationship. The Cardinals have brought in a player who, by all accounts, seems to be a wonderful person who matches our town’s old-school baseball values.

Until Goldschmidt came along, Tony La Russa never compared another player to Albert Pujols. It was sacrilege. But as the chief operating baseball officer for the Diamondbacks, La Russa saw it with his own eyes … a presence on the baseball field that could measure up to TLR’s high standards — and approach the Hall of Fame manager’s unconditional respect for Pujols.

Here are some testimonials gathered from interviews in recent years:

TLR on Goldschmidt: “For a while now, professional players have been distracted by fame and fortune Which means that once you get some fame and you get some fortune—yeah, that’s pretty good. You start sitting on the couch. When you see a guy that has just exemplary drive, if that’s the word you want to use, it stands out. Goldy, he can’t be better than he is.”

TLR on Goldy II: “The highest compliment I can give him is that he’s so much like Albert Pujols that it’s a credit to both of them.”

And here’s what Don Tony means: La Russa calls Pujols ‘Albert P. Pujols, with the ‘P’ standing for “perfect.” He calls Goldschmidt ‘Paul G. Goldschmidt; the ‘G’ standing for “greatest.”

“You want them to have their own distinct thing,” La Russa told USA Today.

TLR, comparing Goldy to Pujols. Is it legit? “I think so, in a lot of ways,” La Russa said. “The example that he sets for his teammates, the completeness of his game — I mean, he’s a franchise player. And I know the things that you don’t know unless you’re around and I wasn’t here until now, but I know the desire to learn, improve. That’s classic Albert.”

More TLR on Goldschmidt and why the Pujols comparisons resonate: “I’m being honest. Perfect. He (Goldy) works at every part of his game – defense, base running, hitting. He works to get better. He’s a plus, plus player and a great teammate and he’s dying to win.”

Arizona manager Torey Lovullo on Goldschmidt: “His statistics and everything are phenomenal. But he’s the leader of the team in every way.”

Mark Grace on Goldy, with the comments made during Gracie’s time in Arizona as the team’s assistant hitting coach: “He’s Jesus Christ in a baseball uniform. He’s everything you want in a baseball player. We know what a special, not only player, but a human being this guy is.”

Enjoy Goldschmidt, Cardinals fans. Whether it’s for one year, five seasons, eight seasons.

Just enjoy.

Maybe this Pujols stuff isn’t so farfetched. Maybe there’s a connection, if you believe in that kind of thing.

Two quick things:

* Goldschmidt, a high school teenager in Houston, was seated in the upper deck with his father and became an eyewitness to one of the great moments in Cardinals’ postseason history: Pujols’ annihilation of a hanging slider thrown by Astros closer Brad Lidge to win Game 5 of the 2005 NLCS and stave off elimination. The Cardinals, on the brink of defeat, were seemingly done … until The Great Pujols reprised his role as The Great Pujols.

“I was upset,” Goldschmidt told the New York Times, in recalling that homer.

* Goldschmidt made his MLB debut on Aug. 1 of 2011 … two-plus months before the Cardinals would win the 2011 World Series in Pujols’ final act here.

We’ll have a lot to talk about in the coming days … weeks … months. But looking ahead to the 2019 campaign, the Cardinals can’t be finished with their home improvements. There’s a lot more work to do. There are roster holes to address — especially in the bullpen. And the incessant Bryce Harper speculation and stress can be reopened soon. But for now, just appreciate this beautiful fact: Paul Goldschmidt is a Cardinal.

Thanks for reading …

–Bernie

Trigging DJ


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Paul Goldschmidt, on coming to the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a>: &quot;I don’t know a player in baseball that doesn’t want to play here. There are organizations known for greatness, and this is one of them.&quot;</p>&mdash; Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) <a href="https://twitter.com/LangoschMLB/status/1071082162257096710?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Except Giancarlo Stanton.

Fire that piece of shit mo for even thinking about using the "good guy" angle

DJ and I are all in on scorched earth it seems

According to Moe it is "highly probable" the starting 8 are already on the roster.

You still laughing, BRC?

All you had to do was pay attention...

I'm warming to the line up if Fowler or O'Neill can be an average RF. Goldy is a lineup game changer.


Bullpen needs to be fixed.

Of course you are.

"I'll be mad if this is all they're gonna do..."

"This is all we're gonna do..."

"Okay."

Moe and Dollar Bill love you, man. You are just right in their wheelhouse.

ROFL They haven't got a dime from me in 8.5 years.

Why not? You seem pleased as punch with the direction of the franchise. Mr. "we want to win 90 games" has probably done just enough to get there and you no longer see a need to further upgrade the roster.

So what are you waiting for?

I don't live in the area. Got plenty of Cardinals gear. I'm not their target audience. You have to live in the area and go to games.


Of course we still need to upgrade the roster.

Fowler needs to be released. Period

Mo said they still plan to meet with Harper next week. Not getting my hopes up but we shall see. Also looks like a potential extension for Goldy will be 5/150.

Hey - he admits they're still looking for a left-handed bat off the bench.

I mean obviously they won't put Harper on the bench, but if they can get him to accept that $4-5 million/season for 2 seasons that they've allocated to the reserve role, they can put Fowler on the bench and they're golden.

They're still in it, guys!

The only thing that would change it, FYI, is DeWitt.

Remember - Boras doesn't even meet with GM's or even club presidents on his top-end guys. He schedules meetings with owners.

Mozeliak will be in that room doing everything he can to talk DeWitt out of signing Harper but if DeWitt finally decides he's had enough of this chickenshit 'algorithm' crap, he can still get it done.

So?


He threw 207ip last year with 3.5 fWAR. Obv your thesis isn't showing up yet. And what SP isn't occasionally knocked around? Even Kershaw and Bumgarner and

To that point I pulled up gis dasgboard to see what his slider is doing. That and his FB are now avg, but his changeup ia now one of the best in MLB. He's got such good command he can just shift into a superior pitch (Kershaw and Bumgarner can't). He's also extremely durable.


That's my point.

They all are.

So?

He hasn't fallen off - yet. That's what I'm saying; it's not a viable long-term plan. It can work for awhile but ultimately you become a RH junk-tosser and those guys aren't long for this earth.

And again - that's operating under an assumption that he doesn't continue to lose velocity, an assumption that I'm not sure is wise to make. You say his fastball is average and even that is a heck of a stretch; it got hit HARD last season. I'm hard pressed to find a single positive trait for it - the velocity is well below average and the movement may actually be worse. At best, he knows how to use it to effect outside of the zone to get guys to chase - which again is just another profile of a junk tosser. When the best thing I can say about the guys fastball is that it works okay when he doesn't throw a strike with it, that leaves his paths to success as being limited at best.

His slider started to get hit as well (and that's not surprising; he lost the depth he had on it a few years ago and he knew it when he stopped using it nearly as often as a putaway pitch). He does have two good pitches in his change and his curve but again - when you're trying to use them to set up an 89 mph fastball, that's only going to work to a point and that period of time is limited at best.

He's become a slow, slower, slowest kind of pitcher and there's a clear floor there. Moreover, that approach also makes him a 5, maybe 6 inning pitcher. If you let that guy face the order a 3rd time, you're just asking for abuse. He doesn't have the stuff or the myriad of available ways to get guys out to face an order a 3rd time through.

I think he's a fine guy to take a flyer on at 2 years, $32 million. But at 3 years and north of $90 million? Oh hell no - that's lunacy. There are way too many flags and no upside in it. He's a righthanded pitcher with an aging lefthanders arsenal. That arsenal as a righty puts him so close to the borderline against RH hitters that even a small amount of decreased effectiveness (likely given his age) will make him borderline unpitchable. He'll still be able to work around some of the worse RH matchups and attack lefties with his change to keep rallies from snowballing (while leaning on his curve against weaker righties) but literally EVERYTHING in his profile says 3rd starter at best with 4th being likely and swingman being a distinct possibility.

There isn't a good reason to take Greinke even if the D-Backs ate half his contract.

Nationals owner Mark Lerner said in an interview on 106.7 FM The Fan on Friday of Bryce Harper that "I really don't expect him to come back at this point."

Lerner said that when the team made Harper the reported 10-year, $300 million offer on the last day of the regular season, "we told them, 'This is the best we can do.'" He added that that offer "very well may be" off the table at this point after the additions they've made since then and ones they still plan to make. General manager Mike Rizzo indicated earlier Friday that the Patrick Corbin signing didn't necessarily rule the club out for re-signing Harper, but the writing is on the wall at this point.

I think the Corbin deal pretty well confirmed that.

He's bluffing w/r/t the offer being off the table - if Boras showed up tomorrow willing to sign that deal, they'd take it and find a way to make it work - but they aren't upping it and I'd be surprised if that got it done.

And frankly, just more pissed off. If he goes for $30 million with no opt outs and we didn't beat it...ugh.

Agreed. It also came out today that Harper isn't "enamored" with the city of Philadelphia. I doubt he'd want to go to the White Sox since they were a 60 win team. This is turning into a perfect scenario for Mo to mess up on.

I'm kinda hoping that the Cubs do something like trade Schwarber for Archie Bradley or Blake Treinen and then go sign Harper.

My God - could a more thorough de-pantsing of Mozeliak possibly exist?

That wouldn't happen simply because Schwarber doesn't move enough money.

The 3rd tier tax penalty that affects draft position is $246M. From that last I read the Cubs are projected to be around $220 as it stands now. Schwarber only clears roughly $3M, less than Treinen will get and maybe just a little bit more than Bradley will get. Adding Harper into that payroll wouldn't be in the cards.

They have a ton of money coming off the books next year so they could get creative with the first year and make it work but from all indications they dont seem too interested in making it work.

He’s gonna end up in New York right?


If the cards aren’t interested which I’m guessing they aren’t, I wish they’d check in with puig

If anyone is going to the Yankees it's going to be Machado. If its Machado, Harper probably ends up in Philly. Other than Philly the only other player I see for Harper are the Dodgers with the Nationals, Cubs, and Cardinals seemingly taking themselves out.

Theres been rumblings of the White Sox being really interested but I cant imagine he would want to play there unless their offer was off the charts.

I’d guess it’s the Phillies but that’s kinda weird. I mean, I get they’re gonna pay the most but who knows

Why is it weird?

They now have a very good 1/2 hitter in Segura to pair with Hernandez, if they choose not to trade him. They moved Hoskins to first by dumping Santana in the deal which opens up a spot in the OF. Even with Harper they are probably still a player for someone like Pollock or Brantley. And if they don't sign a pitcher they have been linked to talks with the Giants for Bumgarner.

They already won 80 games with a pretty bad team overall so they could very quickly become legit.

Luxury tax calculations are based on AAV. So they can't really 'get creative' unless it's a flat-out 1 year, low AAV deal with a handshake agreement to blow it up the following season. Good luck getting Boras to agree to that.

I guess I just don't understand why they were so eager to pick up Hamels' option here when there are some 'bad contract' pitchers they might have been able to make a move on. Why not send out Heyward for Greinke? There has to be a path towards getting that done, right? Not a simple 1-1 but surely something.

Eh, whatev. He's going to Philly. We'll !@#$ this up when all other appearances suggest we should absolutely be in the running on this thing.

Chance mo is just slow playi........****

It would make sense to use all this powder they’ve kept dry but I’d imagine they kept it dry so the Dewitt’s could deposit it

I have no clue why they picked up Hamels' $20M. I figure they would have re-signed him had they declined and they already offset the extra salary by trading Smyly's $7M to the Rangers so I have to imagine Hamels option came up in those discussions. Pay $6M and get nothing or pay $7M and get something in return and there's still a PTBNL going in each direction that hasn't been settled yet.

Yep, they are eating Fowler’s money no matter what. If you have a shot at Harper you take it. It then REALLY makes the Goldy trade a steal because now you can negotiate an extension from a place of strength not desperation. It also undoubtedly makes you more attractive for him to stay.

As long as we are dreaming...

Carp
Harper
Goldy
Ozuna
Molina
DeJong
Bader
Wong

Bench Bats

Fowler
ONeill
Gyorko
Back up catcher

Theoretically I’d put Ozuna in the 2 hole, Harper in the 3 and goldy at 4

Mo is a sack of donkeycrap. Stop dreaming...

You would have lots of options for that first four for sure. I would definitely start with Harper at 2 or 3.

If Ozuna is healthy and bounces back at least offensively that would be a line up that could really do some damage.

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2018/12...ouis-cardinals

Nice article laying out all the reasons to go all in with Harper too.

Food for thought, we pay Goldy roughly the same for one year as we paid Greg Xxxing Holland!

In today’s dollars we paid McGwire 37m

We have plenty of flexibility to sign Harper. They are going to spend more money, the question is how wisely. Relief pitchers rarely pan out for big dollars, you are almost always paying for past history where often they were worked to death. You can dumpster dive for guys like Norris to fill in set up roles.

Too risky

your out the $50 million no matter what. See if you can get a AA prospect for him if you pay the $50 million for his salary. They got a one time payment of $50 million from MLB last season for the sale of software. Use it to remove this problem.