Well yeah because those other teams would have a WR for him to throw to...

Also,

Let not act like we couldn't have easily made Hopkins contract work

I can reconcile it. We prioritized protecting Patrick Mahomes and now he is the least sacked QB in the NFL.

Evans over Diggs anyday.

Are you dense? That money was allocated and spent, it was going to OBJ or Taylor, it wasn't free money unless you just want a rookie at LT and Wylie at RT. My god you guys are just plain delusional.

spilt milk

Ifs and Buts were Candy and Nuts...

Mahomes has had a concussion, his knee turned sideways, a bad toe injury and an ankle sprain. Evidently folks suddenly forget about David Carr and Andrew Luck having their careers ruined by poor OL. Not to mention Tua having multiple concussions leading people to wonder if he should retire.

There's also been tons of QB injuries this year. Burrow, Lawrence, Jones, Rodgers, Cousins, Richardson, Watson.

The Chiefs tackles had the highest pressure rate given up last year. Mahomes was running for his life. It's like people conveniently forget that our OL got Mahomes hurt last year and our season was close to being done bc of them.

These people should watch the Super Bowl against TB again bc that's what bringing back Wylie would have done.

the revisionist history of some of our posters......

"We don't need him"

to

"Well it wouldn't have worked anyways"

I prefer Diggs over Evans but it ain’t much of a difference. Both are great players

the guys Chiefs can't afford

LMAO I know...

We can create all the money we want to sign whomever, just listen to them on here...:banghead:

Wylie is not better than Taylor. That's not necessarily the point.

The point is that Taylor was overpaid. Big time. He's being paid like a top-5 tackle. He's not that good though. He's also VERY un-clutch. Backbreaking penalties. On that 4th and 15, Kelce is open and he gives up pressure with Mahomes getting hit on the arm.

His contract makes it harder to accomplish other signings. If he was playing better it would be easier to justify it.

Imagine the Patriots overpaying for this dude during their dynasty.

It’s not some unattainable number. You just defer some money a few years out on other contracts. Mahomes literally has an option every year where we can do it. When it became too late to use mahomes money, we restructured thuney.

These are short term deals with no strings attached. They aren’t nearly the boogeymen some make it to be

Yeah with 4 void years. In reality, it was a 2-year deal for $26 Million.
We have to stop kicking the can down the road. That is the reason we were strapped now. Thuney has a HUGE number. Mahomes is now getting to where it is going to cost almost $ 70 million for just one year.

They used the cap that they had. A starting tackle to protect Mahomes is more important than a WR.

Yeah not like the franchises with huge QB cap sign talent for their QB's ever offseason or anything.

I don't think he went into it quite like that. I do think you're right in that he did choose to upgrade RT first. But I also feel that he thought the CJ thing was going to get resolved sooner, rather than later, so he could free up money to do other things. CJ's camp knew this and waited for the right time to gain leverage, and held the team hostage. Then we were screwed. I think had CJ not shown his ass, Veach would have been able to "upgrade" RT and sign Hopkins. Just my opinion.

Yep and Thuney number is huge because we used it to kick the can down the road. Folks think Thuney is actually making that next year.

It is not unattainable, but there is a price. There is going to come a time, I think we are already there, where restructuring these contracts hurts. Mahomes number is $57 million next year and going up for the next 3 years. Thuney is $27 million for the next 2 years. But yeah let's just defer some more money from others' contracts to where we have a year or two of nothing but rookies and the bottom of the league on the field.

Win the Lottery and have your family in life crippling debt in 7 years. Oohh shiny things!

Gee. Why would Veach want to make RT a priority?

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We are really getting to that level now. The Chiefs are amongst the first teams trying to navigate these waters for the first time with a QB taking this much of the cap. The Bills, Bengals, Ravens and Chargers are starting that process now.

And this year the WRs AND oline might get Mahomes hurt.

Mahomes contract is irrelevant. He'll keep restructuring and will sign a brand new contract by 2027. Why do people care about his cap numbers at the end of his career or after he retires?

And his cap hits are 4mil for this year and 16mil next year. I don't know why we're acting like that's a lot for what he can bring you.

Dude is on track for 1000+ yards with a broken Tannehill, Malik Willis, and Will Levis throwing to him. Meanwhile the guy who has a cap hit of $11mil still doesn't have 300 yards with the best QB to ever play the game.

You can create cap by turning base salary into bonus. Mahomes’ contract is designed specifically to give us flexibility to do this. We have barely even begun to tap into “credit card mode.” We don’t want to get drunk on doing this but this was plenty doable

This. I have been thinking about that lately. It seems the Chris Jones holdout really screwed up our chances at bringing in a vet WR. :shake:

Mahomes isn't going to keep restructuring. Go look at his cap hits moving forward over the next 2-3 years. Restructuring is going to pump those up over $60 million.

So? He's going to sign a brand new deal in the next 2 years anyway. Why do we care about his 2028 cap numbers on this current contract?

It's basically what they already did this off season except except we would reduce the cap hit for the current year which would allow us to sign players.

Wrong again, you definitely are not King of anything, It was for this year and then $22 next because of the void years. We should not do that to the cap unless you are proposing a year of where we have just have a team of scrubs and put Mahomes on the bench or IR for the year so he is not broken into pieces or some other radical and stupid idea.

God damn the denseness of some of you people. You still have to pay that money out at some point. Will you not be happy until his cap number is $100 million for one season? Let me guess then you will want to cut him because of how ridiculous that would be.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennesse...hopkins-12307/

I have no idea what you're talking about. His cap hits are literally 4 mil and 16mil. Even if he's cut at the end of this year, the Titans will carry a ~8mil dead cap hit next year.

That seems like a risk worth taking.

Mahomes if just over $57 million in 24, $60 million in 25, $63 million in 26.

Ok sparky... We have the least sacked QB in the league and Taylor is receiving little chip help. He's tied for 41st in sacks allowed, and the 1/2 of those penalties are BS and the refs will subside targeting him at some point. His signing has nothing to do with accomplishing other signings. We were going to pay OBJ or Taylor. Taylor is better than OBJ. Please explain who you would have signed or brought on as a RT/LT alternative?

Mahomes has never been a highly sacked quarterback. I don't know why people are bringing that up.

My bad you are right the remaining would be dead cap on the 3rd year where he is not playing. What a waste of cap space. Again we are already facing cap troubles, but sure let's create more for a player that is not even going to contribute and have to fill his spot on the roster.

$16MM cap his this season, the way the timing worked out thanks to CJ being a reerun I see no possible way this was going to work.

Hopkins didn't get released until almost June FFS and CJ was tying up a shit ton of cap $ on the tag. That didn't change.

I guess Veach should have known back in March that Hopkins was going to get released 2 months later.

Sure but what hamstrings you are these deals with huge dead weight attached to it. These weren’t it. It’s exactly why a guy like DHop or thielen made too much sense. It’s a small dent and I think most would be plenty fine with a tiny setback a few years from now if it meant maximizing our window while we still have kelce. We have plenty of money, it’s purely based on if we’re ok with some small setbacks a few years from now.

You still have to factor those 2028 cap numbers. They don't just disappear off the salary cap.

Yeah, it's a waste of cap space to sign a player who's actually worth the money he's playing for.


Actually outplaying the money he's playing for. Good thing we don't need a good WR and we don't have WRs losing games and playoff seedings for us.

And pssst, you don't have to structure the contract the same way the Titans did. You can do it in a way that works specifically for your team so you're not left with a dead cap if you decide to cut him.

Some would say we are already into those "small setbacks" that you are referring to.
So you would be fine with us having signed Hopkins knowing that $8 million in dead cap would have cost us, Nick Bolton? That is likely one of the possible scenarios for kicking that can down the road.

Not sure why you said RT. Every one of those vids is a failure by the LT, mostly OBJ. I suppose the 3rd one was a mistake by rookie Trey Smith, as well as OBJ.

It was widely reported that we had conversations with Hopkins and his agents. It is obvious he did not like our offer and went with the Titans.

Don't sign players that can help your team because even if they're currently playing well and would play even better on your team, there's also a chance they wouldn't have played well so it's better to just not sign them at all.

Because logic.

Uh........... no

It isn’t that cut and dry. The patriots remained a dynasty because they understood the cycle of rebuild and reload. Here’s a scenario. Let’s assume kelce has maybe 2 years left. Ok, so then defer mahomes’ bonus to that year so he takes a huge cap hit that year, and take a year to clean house and refresh your cap. It’s something veach is really really good at. It’s why we won last year in what should’ve been a rebuild year.

Or accept that in the future we will have a little extra credit card debt to pay off. We still can field a great team, it just becomes a tiny bit tougher.

If we don’t win a Super Bowl this year given how loaded we are I think we will regret that WAY more than a few years from now when we have to go through a season or 2 with rebuild pains

Uh yes, it was. Sorry if you missed that.

Yeah and Veach was also trying to go into the season with Toney as his #1 so who knows what kind of offer he made.


You think Hopkins would have turned down the chiefs offering a deal to match what the Titans offered (not the structure, just the numbers)?

Stop. Taylor isn't earning that contract. He's not one of the league's top tackles. You're not his agent. Mahomes doesn't get sacked a lot because he has great pocket awareness.

It doesn't have to be either Taylor or Wylie. Aren't there like 60 other tackles in the NFL?

I do not believe that the Chiefs were offering or going to offer what is a 2 year $26 million deal.

LMAO so we should have rolled with Wylie and a rookie...Please.

LMAO... So who would you have signed. The info is out there, so who?

He was running for his life last year. Penalties have been a problem but the pass pro from the tackles have been significantly better.

Orlando and Wylie are at the top of PFF yet again for pressures given up. Here's what Jawaan has done in pass pro:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jawaan Taylor has a pass block win rate of 92% per ESPN. That is the 11th best out of offensive tackles this season.</p>&mdash; Chiefs Hive (@chiefshive) <a href="https://twitter.com/chiefshive/status/1733248773747335253?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Can you imagine if we had rolled with a Rookie and Wylie? We would all be in the "our tackles suck" thread screaming about it...

Yeah, and that's the problem.

Meanwhile the guy that we are paying $11mil this year can only catch footballs every other week and only 1 or 2 max.

A good majority of people on here who bitch just want something to bitch about. If we would have went full offense....Veach would be wasting Mahomes with the defense being shitty. If he spent money on WR and the defense...then Mahomes would be running for his life and it would be Veach's fault. You're already seeing what happens when he didn't stack the WR room.

He was apparently running for his life all the way to an MVP season. That's where the trade off was in the off season apparently. Do you pay less for a tackle as good or maybe slightly worse than Taylor, and make up for it by signing a reliable WR. Or sign Taylor and do nothing with the WRs and Mahomes has the worst season of his career and looks frustrated every time he steps on the field?

FYP... and **** the do nothing bullshit. We tried to trade up in the draft for Zay Flowers and Chris Jones agents threw a wrench into any FA signing.

Again, it shouldn't be very hard. Tell us what your moves would have been?

I would have restructured Mahomes as soon as DeAndre Hopkins was available to afford his 2 year 26mil contract. It's documented in this thread.

LMAO The irony of pointing towards Wylie and saying Mahomes made it work for an MVP season when it's literally the exact same WR room besides swapping JJSS for Rice, who is tracking to have a nearly identical season to 2022 JJSS.

I don't think it's ironic.

And while the numbers are the same, you do acknowledge there's a very distinct difference in usage in Rice and how Juju was used last year right? Aren't we all wanting them to use him like how Juju was used all over the field and not just on a bunch of screens?

I'm glad you're not GM... :rolleyes:

Why not? What's your problem with that plan?

Veach and Andy believed in Toney and Skyy and it might (will?) cost us this season. Think everybody can agree on this one.

Yeah saving money by using Wylie ain’t it. We have money to spend. We are just being cautious and I think we’re being too cautious.

What? You are truly clueless... Wylie was basically replaced by Donovan Smith. Taylor was replacing OBJ...

Jones, Sneed, Humphrey, Bolton, Gay, Smith for starters.

Hopkins would have really messed up Moore and Toneys development. Can you imagine how bad they’d feel watching a guy actually catch the ball?

If we're unable to sign those players because we gave a 1000+ yard receiver a 2 year 26mil deal then there's a bigger issue with our cap management.

I will admit I was against this. I was duped into believing the WR room would work. WE have pressed harder for Hopkins.

I don’t think adding a bandaid at wr prevented us from doing anything above. Not nearly as much as we’re being sold. It’s a short term deal at a fraction of the cost of a blue chip WR.

What is really the risk here? That a few years down the road we’ll have a year of cap pain? I think this is a deflection that we didn’t do this bexause of money, when let’s be real this move wasn’t made largely because of miscalculated overconfidence in the wr room we already had

I think this is a money thing with Clark. According to this article Mahomes has made $273 million in guaranteed money since he signed in 2020.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/18/f...eal/index.html

Clark isn't the Walton's. He's not super wealthy. And to be fair that's a shit load of gauranteed money. $68.25 million a season avg. Pretty sure that's coming out of Clark's wallet.

They can't not ever pay Mahomes the meat of his contract. That's not how it works

When it comes to the 40mil over 4 years that Mahomes restructured for at the end of the off season, I understand Clark not wanting to front that much. That's a lot.

But it wouldn't have taken a lot of money fronted to afford Hopkins depending on how big we wanted to make his year 1 cap number be.

How in the world could it be hard to follow? Mahomes made this same WR room that everyone is now throwing an absolute fit about, barring a switch from JJSS to Rice, work en route to an MVP and Super Bowl championship last year. Same thing with Wylie at RT. That's why I was mocking the justification of just keeping Wylie at RT when it worked last year.

Yes, and at the time the right decision. If we could have signed and restructured Jones to the number he and his agents were originally talking, we would probably have Hopkins here. It then comes down to deciding if we could win with the group we had with no cap room and not kicking the can down the road and they said yes. Obviously, this hasn't panned out as planned. That being said, these should have, would have, could have posts aren't being written after a playoff loss, but while we still have a puncher's chance in the playoffs.

Jawaan absolutely does need to clean up the penalties but he also got absolutely ****ed by the league wanting to make an example out of him. He had FIVE accepted penalties against him after the Jaguars game (No other week he's had more than 2) and the illegal formation penalties completely stopped after the Bears game.

and a rookie at LT? We signed Taylor to be the main guy at RT or LT? At that point we could have resigned Wylie for RT and played Taylor at LT, but Wylie was more expensive than signing Donovan Smith.

The analogy you're trying to portray would actually be Wayna Morris replacing OBJ, and resigning Wylie at RT?

I know this is big time wishful thinking. But I also kind of think at some point mahomes will take a mahomes discount. I think he was kind of bullied into taking a substantial pay raise to begin with. I hold absolutely positively nothing against him if he doesn’t, because nobody ever really does. But how can he go through a year like this and not wonder what kind of weapons we could give him if we had just a little more space.

There's so much stupid shit being posted it makes my head hurt worse than the covid I have does.

I agree. I was surprised he got the bump this year and do think the National media pressured that decision.