The guy seems like a meltdown waiting to happen. Im actually good with not going his way. He’s a match made in heaven for a guy like tomlin who will get some great talent from him while he can until he inevitably goes cuckoo.

Bucks have announced there’s no extension in their plans for evans, he’s on the last year of his deal. That trans floundering. Make the call.

Ftr I’m not panicking, just saying maybe see if he’s available. Last years version of toney and mike evans on the outside rapes.

Looks like you're the only one who cares - receipts boy.

There were several comments like this after my initial posts that echoed this sentiment.

To staylor26 and to everyone else who argued with me. Kiss my entire ass.

The issue isn’t not signing Hopkins, it’s that they thought we were good at WR in general. Otherwise they’d have made lower profile veteran signings. Just a big mistake.

Completely agreed. I don't understand how you go into a title defense with a WR room comprised solely of 3/4 guys.

MVS is so completely inept at his position that he literally said this:

https://i.imgur.com/AYeoqjn.png

Who the **** was he talking about?!?!!? Who the **** did he think were "DAWGS"?!?! What does he think a "DAWG" is?

They are playing like dogs... not DAWGS.

2 yr for 26 mil. Yeah...glad we paid Juwaan Taylor 80 million instead to be just as good if not worse so far than Andrew Wylie.

My mom is a Washington fan.

Wylie has been a turnstyle for Washington. He was not the answer.

PFF says Andrew Wylie has been better than Taylor and Smith. By alot.

Now I think PFF are sometimes buff****ing reeruns but hard to believe they are that off base.

I have a healthy degree of skepticism for that. Either he completely turned it around the last couple weeks or is getting regular chip help on that line.

Anywho. He was a disaster coming into November.

MVS has absolutely regressed, but unles you had a crystal ball shoved up your ass, it's really just luck that you get to say "I told you so" now.

Sorry that him stepping up big time in the AFCCG bought him some good will going into his second season with the Chiefs for many of us.

I will never understand how the front office and coaches could watch these wr's and think the team would be fine.

They HAD to see this coming. The wr's didn't just now start playing like crap.

:banghead:

When MVS came from Green Bay the book on him was that he had speed but hands were a negative, and that he ran a limited route tree. It’s easy to see that he is exactly what we signed.

I mean, they did all kind of step up in the playoffs and Super Bowl. I hope they weren't basing it all on that, but it kind of seems like they were.

I don’t remember where I read or heard this, maybe on a podcast, but someone said around camp that there were veteran guys interested but the Chiefs didn’t pursue any of them in free agency, being happy with their group going in. Just a big miscalculation

LMFAO

"Regressed"

That mother ****er is doing exactly what he did last season. Drop passes. I didn't need a crystal ball to know we would be getting more of the same this season. Especially as that was the knock on him coming here to begin with!

Dude had 1 good game last season. It was a big one, yes. But... still just 1. That one game had y'all ****ers talking about how he isn't overpaid for his production and that he is a key component of this offense.

/im happy to provide you with chocolate syrup or a cherry jam made from cherries on my farm to spread over my ass to make that kiss sweeter.

Why wouldn't they have felt like they could run it back with the group from last year - which Mahomes won MVP with - and they wouldn't be at worst a top 10-15 offense?

If you told me we were having these offensive problems last year, I would've 100% agreed with you. I thought we were going to be very average offensively last year, but we had the best offense in the league by almost every metric and really just swapped JuJu for Rice.

Is it really hard to see that Veach felt this was a reasonable plan?

Certainly it hasn't worked as intended, but I'm not sure why you're having difficulty seeing the logic of it.

the biggest problem with the plan was letting greg lewis leave

With a bigger/better investment at WR in the past two offseasons, we’d have to also be content with getting worse somewhere else.

Picks hit. Picks miss. Volume is the answer to addressing almost any issues.

Look at our investment at LB and how much better that group is from 3 years ago. Same with the secondary. Same with the DL. Same with the OL. It’s fair to argue diminishing returns on those other positions, but at least we’ve nailed most of those. It’s not a total waste.

Unfortunately, we have a finite amount of picks and cap space. WR (and to a lesser extent RB) have suffered. It worked like a charm last year.

If the WR room is similar next year, I’ll be very concerned. I think we’re due for a sizable investment there in the offseason.

We just have to hope we can patch things together for another Super Bowl run.

If we can’t, I guess we’ll just have to find a way to be happy with winning 2 of the last 5 Super Bowls.

The challenge is to stay one step ahead. Not just bring back the same players because it worked the season before. They improved the tackle positions (but overpaid Taylor). The other skilled positions stayed the same. I think Toney/Moore/MVS were enough of a red flag last season to expect similar struggles in 2023. The offense worked in 2022 because Kelce and Juju worked well together at reading defenses. Plus, McKinnon was a much larger threat in the passing game.

It appears to have been a big part..

That D Hopkins contract not looking too expensive in retrospect.

Even if I disagreed with the plan I got why we did it.

But some of us raised the WR1 flag long ago. This was exaggerated to mean "oh you want to pay Justin Jefferson money?" No. We're sitting in a thread discussing a man who was paid $13m with no long term contract attached. Not getting a bandaid even if it was thielen for a little cheaper is headscratching.

Because if you look at the thread announcing toney as WR1, the concern was there from the beginning. Our best option at WR1 was toney, a guy who can't stay on the field and even still a huge bet in unseen upside. The next best option was a rookie who most people predicted would barely see the field under Andy Reid because all the other guys play off a WR1 but none popped as anyone who could truly take the mantle (except Justyn Ross as an extreme long shot). We could've band aided a WR1 the same way we plugged Donovan smith in. We just chose not to and I still don't get it.

Sure, but the challenge is to stay ahead with 53 guys, offense, defense, and special teams.

And when you have a mostly young position group, it's reasonable to expect them to improve, not regress. Roster management depends on that.

Clearly, it hasn't happened, but acting like it's unreasonable to expect a step forward from young guys in year two isn't fair play.

And the complete dumpster fire that MVS has become wasn't apparent either, he's gotten way worse at everything, and Watson is a WR4 or 5 type but has also largely gotten worse. These guys aren't old enough to be regressing. So it's weird, alright.

I thought we'd be fine if one of the three swings Veach took at WR worked out; unfortunately, it looks like the rookie is the one so it's not quite fine as he's learning.

But I tell you, I'd have Rice, Toney, and Hardman on the field every damned down. Simplify whatever you have to to do it, but those are the three guys that can actually make a play.

It's all a little puzzling.

They thought Toney was WR1 material when he's never demonstrated the ability to stay healthy. He was drafted in the 1st round based on one collegiate season, and the team that drafted him gave up on him in less than 2 years, but we felt he was instant WR1...?

They signed MVS and expected him to do things other than what he can do. He didn't take a step this year, he is who we thought he was.

They thought Moore was WR2 material, when he seems not to be NFL material.

They let Hardman go, who was better than Moore, and then gave up a pick to get him back as a band-aid for a half a season. He has yet to band-aid anything.

They signed James, who seemingly projected to the Hardman role, but he's just another undersized WR /special teamer.

All those moves seem very far-fetched, in hindsight. This is how you end up with Justin Watson as your #1...

But it doesn't change that the chiefs either believed they could function without a WR1 or more likely scenario they banked big time on toney or rookie rice to run away with it. And both scenarios were HUGE gambles. Because nobody projected skyy as WR1. At best people thought he could be a slot option.

And mvs and Watson have just regressed to the mean. They are who they always were. Mvs is making the same damn mistakes with the same lengthy disappearing acts as last year, he just doesn't have Kelce and juju eating up 20 targets a game to hide it. Watson is the same guy as he was last year and who couldn't even make Brady's roster for the price of a ham sandwich. He is just forced into more opportunities which gives way more opportunity to show his weaknesses.

Obviously it was a risk. Obviously it's not worked out as hoped. You have to take those risks, like the '22 secondary. And now look at that group!

I'm not going to rehash and second guess now. All that matters is what happens moving forward.

If you want to take a win on the 'should've signed a WR1' go for it.

I wasn't opposed to signing a Thielen type, just on paying top dollar for an over 30, often injured OBJ/Hopkins type.

7 catches, 124 yards, 1 TD, 17.7 Yards per Catch tonight vs Miami.

Definitely “washed”.

DeAndre makes Skyy looks like he's running in mud.

The people that said that had no idea what they were talking about. Dude was producing with Colt MCCoy at QB.

Deandre Hopkins has already eclipsed his numbers from last season, 717yds/774yds, 3 Tds/5TDs, etc. and so on. On pace for 1,100 yds, 7 TDs. Playing for TEN, as their only weapon. Getting double and triple-teamed on every snap., or drawing DB1. With three of the worst QBs in the league.

Dude is still sick.

Hopkins signed with the Titans on July 24th. Veach was trying to get a deal done with Chris Jones at that point. We know that Veach spoke to OBJ and Hopkins this off-season about a contract.

If Chris Jones agreed to the extension Veach offered his cap hit this year would have definitely been lower freeing money...that we could have used on Hopkins

LMAO

Just a reminder there were actually dumbshits who preferred Skyy Less over signing DHop.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26xBS...9SxO/giphy.gif

Shhhh! that doesn't matter to them... We have a blank check...

Yea, because that was the decision...

Yet Veach found salary cap room to make Taylor the second highest paid RT in the NFL.

Or we could have signed cheap tackles (Wylie) and/or drafted one (Morris) and used the money on Hopkins either way. Someone suggested that in the offseason. A butt****ing moron he is.

Then he should have traded CJ95 before the draft while he could. Letting that situation drag on for so long was a massive **** up (among many) from this offseason.

I just keep picturing Dhop in red running around Arrowhead like that. Jones really selfishly screwed us

LMAO... Found? That money was going to OBJ or Taylor? Are you saying we should have rolled with Wylie and Donovan Smith? And no, Wylie isn't nearly as good as Taylor, no matter what you want PFF to say.

This, if you want to blame anyone it's Jones.

Wylie at RT + DHop and the Chiefs are 10-3… at least.

Wylie for $12 million less than Taylor and without Taylor’s 17 penalties as well.

And when FA was happening DeAndre Hopkins was held hostage by his old team that wanted a "2nd and more" while every GM in the league laughed at them.

CJ's "Night at the Roxbury" agent duo screwed that up. If reports are true, they went from a reasonable expectation before the draft to $31 million per after in a slimy move to get more leverage. Veach didn't fall for it, and he shouldn't have fallen for it.

Yes. Morris, Wylie, Smith instead of OBJ/Taylor is barely a drop off and saves an astronomical amt of money.

OBJ and Taylor get paid alot of money to barely suck less than 3 to 5M a year options.

We aren't 10-3 with Blaine Gabbert starting...

Accurate

Yeah because it’s not like Wylie is serviceable enough to win a Super Bowl and help lead the NFL in total offense.

Having no WRs able to get separation is probably worse than having a pedestrian oline. We've seen Patrick hold onto the ball longer than ever before this year. But keep clinging to this narrative.

You guys are ****ing reeruned if you truly think Wylie and Taylor are equivalent.

Wylie is 2nd in most sacks allowed, Taylor is 41st. You take away half of his penalties that are bullshit and his overall ranking would be way better as well. You guys are clueless. If we had Morris and Wylie starting at the beginning of the year we would probably be 5-8 with Blaine Gabbert starting...

Taylor just needs a year to learn Andy Reid's offense and he'll be awesome next year

Always love armchair QB's that live in hindsight.

This board was all over Wylie's ass all year long last year saying he's sucked. This place would have been livid if we gave him money after Mahomes got hurt in the playoffs LMAO

LMAO... He was fine as a 2nd tackle, with OBJ on the other side. This board would have been freaking the **** out if we went into the season with a rookie and Wylie as our bookend tackles. You guys are the best "we should have did this" after the fact hindsight mother ****ers in the world. Mahomes would be beat the **** up and we would be having a conversation everyday in the "Our tackles suck" thread...

No, he needs the officials to quit singling him out or call everyone consistently. He is way better than Wylie or OBJ already, not even close.

Yeah the problem was last year both tackles needed chip help vs. teams with two good pass rushers. The idea this year was to at least shore up one side so we could focus help on the other. I think for the most part Taylor has lived up to not needing much help. The penalties obviously suck.

Hall of Classics IMO

Thanks Burt…

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Deandre Hopkins in Week 14:<br><br>7 rec<br>124 yards<br>1 TD<br><br>MVS since Week 8:<br><br>9 rec<br>95 yards<br>0 TDs <a href="https://t.co/7uz9NSpTCM">pic.twitter.com/7uz9NSpTCM</a></p>&mdash; 🗣🎙‼️ (@LanceTHESPOKEN) <a href="https://twitter.com/LanceTHESPOKEN/status/1734435536348049791?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 12, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Those MVS stats feel high tbh

Wylie was terrible last year. He's terrible this year.

He's the MVS of tackles. A few good playoff games surrounded by shit in every other game magnifies how bad he is this year.

Imagine having Smith and Wylie this year. 2nd worst in pressures/sacks and 4th worst. Offense would still be broken even witho Hopkins. Mahomes would be on his back and probably hurt again.

He is the best WR of his generation with the best hands. He was there begging to play with Mahomes. With him, we would have surely been the Superbowl favorites, if not top 2 (with San Fran)

Hopkins looked damn good last night.

I was wrong, we should have tried harder to get him.

MVS stands for Most Valuable Shitstain

That was my argument for wanting him.

He sure didnt help matters much. Im over CJ. Hope we can trade him and use the picks to help get Mahomes the weapons that he deserves.

A Chief WR could have run the wrong route. Got their feet tangled up in Hopkins' and sent him to season ending IR. Hindsight needs an attempt at being balanced

Get Mike Evans,
Add another FA receiver
Draft another WR

Look at who has a HOFer throwing to him. That makes it way worse.

Wish CJ would get traded to the Panthers

Anyone claiming that realistically couldn't have watched him play last year. His numbers in the games he played were elite, as I pointed out over-and-over. And more than half his games were with McCoy and that 3rd string guy. We should've signed him. Our season would be completely different if we had.

Yeah because we had $13 million APY to give him. :shake:

Me too, but I'd bet on the Texans.

:shake:ROFL :clap:

We did. We can always move money around to afford a player. And his cap hit is only $4mil this year and we could have made it whatever we wanted to to afford him anyways for this year.

Evans would be nice but who’d I’d go after is Diggs. He wants out and he was basically auditioning to become a chief last game with helping all chiefs players up after the play. Talked to KT for 15 mins before the game.

But they found a way to give Taylor $20 million/year.

The “Chiefs had no salary cap room to sign Hopkins” crowd can’t reconcile that inconvenient reality.

We could’ve signed Nuke if CJ wasn’t holding the chiefs hostage

But they found a way to make Taylor the second highest paid RT in the NFL… long before CJ’s contract got resolved.

Veach prioritized supposedly “upgrading” the RT position… which didn’t happen… and terribly neglected the WR position in the process.

The pining that takes place around here is incredible, while the rest of the league would give their first born for Mahomes.