You aren't close to creating a dynasty, pay attention.

You arent close to replicating the Cardinals success from 2004 to 2013.

Or SF or LA's.

You are damn near the Royals.

LA's success? Excuse me?

LMAO I guess that was a bad example.

And the Cardinals won 2 WS in that 10 year span. The Cubs have 1 in the 4 years since they've made the playoffs in 2015. So they still have 6 years to scrape out 1 more WS.

Start your own Cubs thread, FFS.

The Royals have 2 pennants.

There's an argument that the Royals have a MORE successful recent history than the Cubs.

That said, I think Chicago picks off another pennant over the next 3 years and if they get the WS out of that, the whole calculus of this era changes.

They won 95 games last season with Bryant hurt/mediocre all year, Rizzo mediocre most of the year, Contreras regressing and getting NOTHING from Darvish or Chatwood. It's damn impressive that they got to 95 with what they dealt with last year.

Then again, they're closing in on a $200 million payroll so anything less than that is a pretty poor ROI.

But they have 100 win ability and will for the next 2-3 seasons.

I'm not the one that brought up the conversation.

Where did I say they were trash? Again you claim they are cream of the NL, yet LA has taken the crown the past 2 years straight. That’s a fact. You didn’t even win the division this past year. How are you the cream again?

So its your opinion that the Cubs arent one of the best teams in the NL/yearly favorites?

That's some very strong denial if that's your stance.

Can you read? Yes I said they were in the discussion. I think their starting staff has the chance to be better, but could also see a regression depending on Darvish. If he doesn’t, they probably need to go shopping.

Position wise they have a lot to like. They can put together a good line up, but nothing like what it looked like they might be 3 years ago.

Until they prove it the Cards are still a step or two behind. I like our pitching depth and potential. They need to add a top end bat preferably left handed.

What is the announcement coming on the 19th?

The Royals had the most AL wins from 2013-2015

Dynasty.

Hisorically 96 more years would be more accurate.

Season tickets still available!

Cubs? Cardinals? Confused, this some twitter rumor or something?

Cardinals put on their Twitter huge announcement coming the 19th or some shit. I’m sure the huge announcement is something along the lines of beer prices staying the same for next year, however you will get 2 fewer ounces.

yeah no way is that baseball on the field related. Teams do that when they get new sponsors, going to add to the stadium. Probably getting a new resteraunt or something.

Be nice to Cubs knomo

It is the Cardinals. It popped up on my Facebook news feed that they had a "big announcement" coming up on 11.19.18

It seems that all of our young players that come up have issues with breaking balls that start out in the zone and end up in the dirt or way outside.
Isn't that standard for all players when they first come up because they seldomed faced MLB breaking balls in the minors?

This

<section id="module-position-RVM5Qs5i174" class="storytopbar-bucket story-headline-module story-story-headline-module">USA Today:
Why the Cardinals should sign free agent Bryce Harper

</section>Bryce Harper, a National League MVP at 23, is a free agent at 26, peddling his services in an industry that’s grown to nearly $11 billion in annual revenues. His combination of skills, age and marketing cachet make him an excellent fit for any major league baseball franchise.
Particularly the St. Louis Cardinals.

Harper, a career .279 hitter with 184 home runs, rejected a 10-year, $300 million contract in September from the Washington Nationals.
A look at why Harper -- the top free agent on the open market -- could and should sign with the Cardinals:
On the field

Wherever Harper lands, the big-picture implications will far outweigh a team’s 2019 alignment. As it turns out, Harper fits in St. Louis now and later.

His signing would displace the struggling Dexter Fowler in right field, though it won’t make the $50 million owed Fowler disappear. That’s OK – Fowler could assume a reserve role, reboot his career and take a crack at a starting job in 2020, when Marcell Ozuna likely departs in free agency.
In the meantime, a Harper-Harrison Bader-Ozuna outfield gives the Cardinals a nice balance of power and defense. Ozuna hit 37 homers for the 2017 Miami Marlins, but managed just 23 and a .758 OPS in 2018, due in large part to a right shoulder that required a “cleanup” surgery last month.
Assuming Ozuna is healthy, a Matt Carpenter-Ozuna-Harper pairing near the top of the lineup would be punishing. Harper’s presence and Carpenter’s versatility means the club could deploy young sluggers Jose Martinez and Tyler O’Neill in creative platoons – or deal one of them for depth elsewhere.

Above all, they’d be buying Harper’s lifetime .388 on-base percentage and .900 OPS, sticking it in the middle of the lineup for the next decade-plus and working out the details later.



<svg class="story-line-text-icon" id="Layer_3" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" x="0px" y="0px" viewBox="0 0 16 16" style="enable-background:new 0 0 16 16;" xml:space="preserve"></svg>Off the field
As much as The Cardinal Way and the mythology surrounding it evokes an image of the selfless, noble organization where the whole (milk?) is greater than the sum of its parts, let’s be honest: The Cardinals love their superstars. From Hornsby to Musial to Gibson to Brock, to Ozzie, Pujols and Yadi, a club has stamped its imprint on a vast region of the country thanks to a gaggle of generational talents.

And there’s about to be a significant void.
Yadier Molina, a shoo-in to don the red coat of Cardinal hall of famer and a decent bet for Cooperstown, turns 37 next July, and his contract expires after 2020. While Molina’s still performing at an All-Star level, it’s not realistic to expect such returns when he’s on the doorstep of 40.
Bader is a nice player, but with defense his primary calling card, not the sort around which to build a movement. Their top emerging players are all pitchers – Jack Flaherty, Dakota Hudson, Alex Reyes – with no slam-dunk positional superstars near the top of the minors.

Stepping into this void would also have some appeal for Harper.
It’s long been presumed he’d yearn for the bright lights of one of the coasts or a major market like Chicago. Heck, he idolizes old Yankees, hails from Las Vegas and has a dog named Wrigley.

Yet none of those places provide the clean landing he could stick in St. Louis.

Imagine signing with the Yankees, and possibly displacing Giancarlo Stanton, or trying to gamely share the spotlight with Aaron Judge.
Imagine signing with the Cubs, and possibly being perceived as the guy who forced franchise icon (and Vegas pal) Kris Bryant out of town when he’s eligible for free agency.

Imagine signing with the Dodgers and taking on all the expectations as the star for whom they broke the bank while they treat the rest of the roster like Tampa Bay West.

In St. Louis, he’d have no such concerns, and for a good while be hailed as The Superstar Who Chose Us. That would allay plenty of initial pressure players face when switching teams.
Why they could pull it off

With a franchise value estimated at $1.9 billion and annual revenues approaching $350 million, according to Forbes, the Cardinals certainly have the cash. They also have a decent bit of financial flexibility.
The contracts of Carpenter ($14.75 million), Molina ($20 million) and Fowler and Carlos Martinez ($16.5 million and $11.7 million, respectively) fall off the books each of the next three seasons, leaving only shortstop Paul DeJong’s team-friendly pact as a long-term commitment. If their young pitching continues panning out, that would buy further flexibility in the early years of the deal.

Worth noting: Had Albert Pujols accepted the Cardinals’ reported 10-year, $210 million offer (in 2011 dollars, no less), there’d still be three years remaining on that deal. In that light, Harper’s contract could be viewed as found money, and for a player six years Pujols’ junior at the time of signing.
Will it happen?

Possibly – although long-term perceptions would have to yield to new realities.
For the Cardinals, it’s the notion that it’s imprudent for them to tie up so much payroll - let’s say 12 years, $420 million – in one player. That they lack the financial muscle of the game’s big-market beasts. That they excel at finishing second but rarely winning the player – be it their own talents like Pujols or Jason Heyward or convincing a megawatt star like Stanton to come to town.

For Harper, there are far more unknowns. Despite his occasional dropping of context clues – look, it’s Harper, Bryant and their wives, out on the town! – Harper has truly played this process close to the vest. What we do know is that before he was old enough to drive, he’s been riding shotgun with super agent Scott Boras. Bet on Harper getting exactly what he wants – be it a record-setting contract, a consistent chance to win, a return to Washington, a destination close to home.

The Cardinals can certainly fulfill many of those desires.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...nt/1977355002/

I'm holding my breath in anticipation of a second place finish.

It would be unbelievable if my two teams would have the premier players in those leagues (Mahomes/Chiefs and Harper/Cardinals).

From the reports I've read Harper/Machado aren't in their plans.

Matheny question:

How much stock does this group place in the Matheny Bible study rumors. Can’t recall if I’ve seen it discussed in this thread.

Those are 'rumors'?

Mike Matheny had a bible study. Mike Matheny played favorites. Mike Matheny's bible study had his favorites in it.

So use the transitive property to extrapolate from that what you will. Not sure what else to address as most of this isnt even arguable.

It's 100% true.

Prison Bitch accused me of unfairly attacking Matheny’s character for citing his favoritism towards his bible study group guys as a reason to not hire him.

Just checking.

It was reported by reputable organizations and reporters, Players talked about attending. There is no debate. It happened all the time in the locker room. Within Cardinals owned spaces. Can you imagine a business allowing that to happen? It did.


Then we saw players who attended these bible study classes get chance after chance to play over clearly more talented players. This went on for years. It was a huge problem.

Strauss first referenced it in his chat sessions and Goold after him. Bernie makes really vague references to it and the chess club now that he's not at the PD.

They don't write articles because those go national but in the chat sessions that pretty quickly vanish into the ether, the beat writers have absolutely referenced it.

This isn't rumor at all. This has been verified.

What's the big announcement today? And more importantly, how big of a letdown will it be?

It won't be even the slightest bit baseball related. The DeWitt family hasn't been in the business of baseball since 2011.

They're entertainers now. This will be some sort of Ballpark Village related horseshit; a capital improvement project or some idiotic slate of concerts or something. Maybe Ozzie's getting himself a weekly post-game show at a bar down there or something.

It won't have a single thing to do with the baseball team and I'd bet any amount of money on that.

This offseason is going to piss me off so badly.

Powder Blue jerseys coming back

Condo rentals still available! :rolleyes:

Sadly, you're 100% right.

To the ship!

I'm excited to see Donaldson play 70ish games for the Cards next year. He'll spend a lot on the DL of course but those few he's out there he'll play hard!

The Cardinals could've had Donaldson for free and didn't bite.

Honestly, I think Donaldson may even be shooting too high and I think he'd be a disastrous signing.

I'm thinking Mike Moustakas and Oliver Perez. They'll dabble in Andrew Miller and Adam Ottavino but in the end, they'll do nothing of substance. They'll make 'competitive' offers to Harper and Machado that have some sort of poison pill in them that makes them certain to be rejected and they'll tell the fans they tried.

Then they'll turn the focus to things that have nothing to do with the talent they've assembled...again.

True, sadly.

Sadly, I think Ottavino and or Miller would both be great signings. I wouldn't even be upset with Mouse if you could get someone other than Carpenter to play first but well, I'm not overly excited.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Asked about meeting a whopper, free-agent deal like Harper will command (greater than $300 million), Bill DeWitt III says, “We could do it, sure. It’s about (considering) putting all our eggs in one basket. We have the payroll room.” <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/cardinals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#cardinals</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLB?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLB</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1064572678479233024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


(loud fart noise)

What a joke.

They have sufficient payroll room to ensure that Bryce Harper ISN'T 'all their eggs'.

But now you've heard the sales pitch, fellas. When we don't sign Harper and instead sign Fowler, Cecil and Leake for the same amount, it'll be because we didn't want to 'put our eggs in one basket'.

I mean nevermind roster limitations or the depth of JAGs we already have on this roster. And to hell with the fact that the organizations that are actually winning things are adopting the stars/scrubs model and paying for greatness while letting guys like Marwin Gonzalez go (and trading for Aledmys Diaz to give you roughly the same production). Nah - we need to buck the trends being set by winning organizations.

Let's keep spending big money on mediocre players - it's working out really well.

believe it when we see it. Open the teams wallet. This is Missouri, Show-me. His franchise is worth almost $2 BILLION these days. Didn’t he make almost all the purchase price of the Cardinals immediately back when he sold the parking garages?

just for Saturday’s on the road.

Yeah, we needed weeks ahead press releases for that change. :rolleyes:

Yes he did. Something like $120 million of the original $150 million purchase price. He got the team for peanuts and for at least a 5 year stretch there he was setting MLB records for annual operating profits; swinging $70 million+ annual profits for years.

DeWitt is sitting on billions of dollars - literally billions - in franchise equity.

But our big announcements are to announce team fashion ideas. We trot Harrison Bader out there to model laundry because the ladies think he's just adorable; I guess somebody had to replace ol' Mikey Dreamboat, eh?

This team gives zero ****s about winning baseball past its impact on the bottom line. And they ONLY care about it to the extent of the bottom line. If winning a championship requires a financial outlay that yields a $50 million profit but playing .500 baseball can be done for $20 million less at a revenue hit of only $10 million, they'll take the .500 baseball and the $60 million in profit over the $50 million and a trophy.

DeWitt got his ballpark, then he got ballpark village. Once the cable deal got signed, he proceeded to give zero ****s about winning. He has his shrine and his license to print money, now he just wants to make sure he keeps enough 'fan favorites' around to keep the merch flying and enough nostaliga cases to take the rank and file fans minds off the fact that this team is getting lapped by the smartest organizations in baseball. Shit, it's falling behind the average ones.

But hey - BLUE UNIS!!!!!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Astros?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Astros</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> are the two teams that have had the most meaningful discussions with the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DBacks?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DBacks</a> about a trade for Paul Goldschmidt, sources tell The Athletic. No deal is close; talks not yet advanced.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1064704496868253696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sounds like the DBacks are trying to package Greinke with him.

isnt Goldy going to be 32 when he becomes a free agent? The decline already started? Bat speed, velocity off the bat etc? What’s the point of a one year rental? If it’s not, why sign a declining and aging hitter for multiple years? AND make your defense worse by playing Carp at 3B.

That would be dumb

Cardinals are probably interested because it keeps money in the pockets of the owners.

Another reason would be that hes a premier player that could sell people on making one last run before there are serious questions when it comes to tearing it all down.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> maintaining interest in free agent Michael Brantley, source confirms, even as they’re open to a more expensive outfielder (read: Bryce Harper), per comments by Bill DeWitt III to <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dgoold</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLB</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLBNetwork</a></p>&mdash; Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) <a href="https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1065268058024013824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What do you guys think of the 40 man roster and rule 5 draft players we protected? Miss anyone?

I'm assuming that means it's not BOTH, but rather either/or. I am actually a big fan of Brantley. If/when we don't get Harper, they will then play the "don't put all of our eggs in one basket" approach.

I could then see them doing the Greinke/Goldy trade and signing someone like Brantley. I would prefer Harper and I'm not sold on Goldy long term, especially after the Fowler experience, but I would like the temporary upgrade.

Brantley is about 15% better than Dexter Fowler, but the two have remarkably similar skill sets aside from BA and walk rate (which ends up as a wash in OBP). Power, speed, defense, health--all similar.

Still pisses me the **** off, though, that they're willing to sign a FA Brantley but jettisoned a younger, better Tommy Pham. Mozeliak is a gat damn idiot.

He was good last year, but we still lack a power bat with him on the team.

Fowler 2.0.

Par for the course and I'm only disappointed that I didn't predict it in the first place.

This organization is ****ing reeruned.

Donaldson to ATL 1/23 mil

That's more than I thought he'd get on a prove it deal, and with their talent and the deterioration of Washington, I can't blame him.

1 year deal? :eek: I thought he’d get a multi-year deal.

Whatever they do...So glad that turd flash in the Pham is gone

Like his .275 avg with 21 HR, 63 RBIs and 102 R would not have helped us this year.
Why the hate for this guy?

wellll it looks like MLB wasn't feeling Donaldson so I cant blame the Cardinals for passing on him. Moose would be an okay upgrade at 3B if that's not the only upgrade.

Maybe an upgrade if you don't think Gyorko can stay healthy (which has merit). It seems more like a poor fielding Tino Martinez type move. If you want to give him a one year deal sure, but anything mulit-year and I could see that fat tub with the range of Bob Horner regressing after he cashes in.

Please say no to Moose.

My feelings on Gyrko are well known. He's a not an everyday starter. Just a bat off the bench.

But, if this rumor is true, then they are not going to trade for Goldy. Which I think would have been a really stupid move anyway. A good side benefit.

My feelings are Harper or bust. Otherwise I don't see any compelling targets that are upgrades for this offense/defense. I would rather go into the season with Fowler as a starter than Moose. If he is healthy and reverts to the OBP averages he had before getting hurt he would be more valuable to the line up than Moose.

Goldy would help this offense for sure. I'm guessing it would cost us quite a bit in prospects for just a one year deal. Now if they get him to sign something reasonable with the trade as an extension that would change things, but why would he? Most likely we would again be paying for a declining player at the highest level (see Fowler).

If you want to do something big, throw everything at Harper AND trade for Goldy. I could live with watching Carp underhand it across the diamond for a that line up.

Yep. Its really our only chance to take a huge leap forward.
Exactly. We are not in a next year or else the window closes. Why trade prospects for one year? He's going to want to get paid one last time after next year. Surely Mo has learned his lesson about giving aging players big money, guaranteed money with no trade clauses.
Make our defense worse. Put Fowler back in RF. Empty out the farm system for a 1 year run?:shake:

Gorman hand/eye coordination. He posted two different ones.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nothing to see here 🏆 <a href="https://t.co/l68pcQhKU0">pic.twitter.com/l68pcQhKU0</a></p>&mdash; Nolan Gorman (@NolanGorman) <a href="https://twitter.com/NolanGorman/status/1067626986607063040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's being reported that we offered a one year deal to Donaldson (terms undisclosed) but he chose Atlanta for multiple reasons, including his relationship with the GM, the trainers (both worked with him in Toronto), and that Atlanta is closer to home.

Came in second. Cool.

Mozeliak leaked shit to his pliant press stooges again and they lapped it up.

He's a pro at throwing a dart and then drawing the bullseye around it. NOBODY could ever come in second this routinely. Nobody could possibly be so good at getting within 95% of closing a deal without occasionally getting the job done in a manner that doesn't require going a year too long and 25% too high.

Think about how badly he's missed on the deals he's actually gotten done and try to convince yourself that he's actually that precise to just keep getting edged out on the ones he hasn't.

Mozeliak is undeniably full of shit. He waits until the guy has signed then has some ****ing hack like Nightengale float rumors that he was interested to appease the bubbas in this fanbase. The lying shitstain is going to actually try to convince us that when Donaldson was available FOR FREE to help in a playoff push we weren't interested in even putting in a waiver claim. But when he was available for $20+ million we suddenly got interested? My ass. How stupid do you think we are?

I'm past giving a **** about this dipshit anymore. I feel terrible for Shildt because Mozeliak's going to do what he always does - give him just enough rope to hang himself. His only hope is that Flores is a goddamn wizard and some of these potentially premium sticks in the low minors continue to develop as they are.

Mozeliak can lick my taint. Preferably after I've run a mile or played 18 holes. What a ****ing **** this guy is.

Really good article by Bernie- definitely recommend subscribing to the Athletic.

As much as St. Louis fans wanted it, Josh Donaldson to the Cards was unlikely

By Bernie Miklasz Nov 27, 2018

For​ the longest​ time,​ matchmakers​ tried​ to​ connect​ Josh Donaldson​ to​ the Cardinals. And​ as I​ tracked​ the daily​ rumors​ served​​ warm and plentiful from the Hot Stove, it seemed that three out of every four baseball pundits were all but getting Donaldson prepared to wear the “birds on the bat” uniform.

And it was a logical forecast. The Cardinals need some wallop, and would upgrade their lineup and infield by moving Matt Carpenter to first base and installing Donaldson at third.

It was fun and harmless speculation. And this is an entertaining time of the year on the baseball calendar. It’s why we heat up that relentless — if unreliable — stove. But at no point did the Cardinals convey absolutely-gotta-have-him interest in Donaldson. At no point did Donaldson make eyes at St. Louis and express a direct desire to be a Cardinal.

A percentage of Cardinals fans seemed shocked and appalled when Donaldson signed a one-year deal with the Atlanta Braves for a 2019 salary of $23 million. The protests didn’t come from all fans, of course, but at least in my email inbox, the criticism was sharp.

And the emotions boiled over a bit more after USA Today baseball columnist Bob Nightengale reported that the Cardinals had made a “competitive” one-year offer for Donaldson.

The #stlcards also made competitive one-year bid for Josh Donaldson before he signed one year, $23 million contract with the Atlanta #Braves
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) November 27, 2018

OK, but one-year offers aren’t necessarily equal.

I’m not sure why Donaldson’s free-agent move to the Braves became a flash point that turned into immediate condemnation of Cardinals ownership/management.

For critics of the Bill DeWitt Jr. administration, it was time to play the greatest hits.
To those good folks, president of baseball ops John Mozeliak, GM Michael Girsch and chairman DeWitt were:
A) Asleep
B) Cheap
C) Unmotivated to do what it takes to win
Or …
D) All of the above

My response: Sorry, but I disagree.

I may even go with a bah, humbug here.

The silver-medal narrative is convenient. And granted, the Cardinals have finished second in bidding on multiple occasions. I don’t think it applies in this case. Not in a linear way. And at this point finishing second means more negative publicity for the Cardinals. Fans are increasingly frustrated with these silver-medal finishes. So if the Cardinals were trying to score positive PR points by putting it out there — “Hey, we really tried but finished second!” — well, it makes no sense. They’d be fools to pull that stunt because it only means more blowback from a skeptical public.

I was surprised by the news of Donaldson signing. But not because the power hitter struck a deal with Atlanta, and not because he didn’t prefer the Cards’ one-year pitch. I just didn’t expect to see Donaldson sign so soon. Or that he obviously had enthusiasm for accepting a one-year deal.

Like many others, I figured Donaldson would be able to fetch a two- or three-year deal on the open market despite his age (33) and recent injury concerns. And I thought the Cardinals could be in play for Donaldson if their other plans fell through.

Members of the organization privately advised me to cool down on the Donaldson-Cardinals connection, but I thought they were bluffing. Evidently not. Even though the Cardinals put a one-year deal on the table, it wasn’t substantial enough to sway Donaldson. But please understand this: Donaldson probably had little reason to want to be swayed. He did, however, have many good reasons to be revved up about becoming a Brave. More on that in a bit.

Upon further review, Donaldson’s decision makes a lot of sense. But the curiosity remains: Why didn’t the Cardinals make more of an all-out run at Donaldson? Why not top the Braves’ outlay of $23 million?

I’ll answer the question with two questions:
* First, do we know if the Cardinals pitched more than $23 million? Or that they came in lower than $23 million? As of now, no. We don’t know. Not yet.
* Why do we assume that Donaldson wanted to be a Cardinal?

About the contract: The Braves could have Donaldson in house for two seasons and $43 million — simply by making a qualifying offer for 2020, and provided that Donaldson accepts. And he just might do that, given his fondness for the Braves.
(I wanted to pause here to sincerely apologize for putting out some incorrect information in an early version of this column. I’d misinterpreted what an agent told me, and assumed that the Braves assured Donaldson that they’d automatically make that QO at the end of the season. That’s not the case, and I didn’t vet the info properly. Bad form on my part.)

Having said that, I don’t think it matters.

Bottom line: If Donaldson has a profound 2019 comeback season that drives up his value, he can opt for free agency and cash in with another team. And even if there’s no guarantee of a qualifying offer, Donaldson is willing to bet on himself on a one-year showcase. And he obviously believed Atlanta was the prime launching pad for maximizing his post-2019 contract drive. I’ll explain why later.

Now: About St. Louis as a coveted destination spot. It’s a sweet, sentimental thought that harkens back to the good old days. But in free agency, players get to choose their destination. Based on offers sent their way, they get to select their next employer. They don’t have to play where we want them to play … or expect them to play … or hope they will play.

Hate to break it to you, but St. Louis is no longer viewed as the perfect “Baseball Heaven” — Mark McGwire’s term — that will beckon every player to crawl to the Gateway Arch to play for the Cardinals.

It’s changed. McGwire — home-run hulk and first baseman — was traded from Oakland to St. Louis in the summer of 1997, immediately fell in love with his new home and happily signed away his imminent free-agent windfall by quickly agreeing to a contract with the Cardinals.

Center fielder Jim Edmonds followed suit, agreeing to a long-term deal after being traded from Anaheim to St. Louis in the spring of 2000.

Third baseman Scott Rolen basically forced a trade from Philadelphia to St. Louis to fulfill his wish to play for the Cardinals. After the trade went through during the 2002 season, Rolen quickly signed a multiyear contract to stay in St. Louis.

Left fielder Matt Holliday was approaching his first crack at free agency when the Cardinals acquired him from Oakland in July 2009. After the season, Holliday signed a seven-year, $120 million contract to remain with the Cardinals.

That unique period has passed. The Jason Heyward episode should have alerted those who want to believe it’s still 1997 or 2000, when just about everybody wanted to be a Cardinal. (Or so it seemed.)

Sure, there are prominent players who would enjoy the opportunity to sign on with a franchise that has won 11 World Series championships and is supported with 3 million-plus passionate fans annually at Busch Stadium. But other players have their own reasons for choosing a market. It could be geography, lifestyle, entertainment, convenient travel (like non-stop flights), family comfort or just diving head-first into the biggest pile of money.

When the Cardinals cut a deal with Atlanta for Heyward after the 2014 season, giving up young starting pitcher Shelby Miller in the transaction, management was aware of the inherent risk. Heyward could become a free agent after the 2015 season, but the Cards’ front office was confident it could make a positive recruiting pitch to impress Heyward and entice him to stay.

Instead, he bolted to the arch-rival Cubs on an eight-year deal for $184 million.
Last winter, the Cardinals couldn’t convince Miami’s big-bad-bat Giancarlo Stanton to waive his no-trade clause and agree to a deal that would make him a Cardinal. Stanton angled for a trade to the Yankees instead.

The Cardinals have had quite a few swings and misses on this front. Perhaps they’ll connect if they can make a trade for Arizona first baseman Paul Goldschmidt, who can become a free agent after the 2019 season. Maybe the Cardinals could reverse the trend by acquiring Goldschmidt and posting a contract offer he can’t refuse. Or maybe Goldschmidt would take the Heyward cutaway path and depart the Cardinals to collect his riches elsewhere.

My point is, we’ve seen more than enough to know that it’s silly to automatically believe that Josh Donaldson — or any significant talent — holds some lifelong dream to play baseball in St. Louis.

This was Donaldson’s call.

And he had a lot of reasons for making this move.

1. Donaldson was, and is, a Braves fan. He spent his formative years in Pensacola, Fla., and Alabama. He played collegiate baseball at Auburn. He lives in the region. The south is his home. And the Braves are special to him.

“I was a huge Braves fan coming up,” Donaldson said at his introductory news conference in Atlanta on Tuesday. “More so, I was a big players’ fan. My very first favorite player was Ron Gant. It definitely feels like I’ve come full circle, from being a little kid who grew up being a huge fan of the game, to now being able to put on this (Braves) jersey and hopefully get us back to a World Series.”

2. The Braves won 90 games and the NL East title last season. Unlike the Cardinals — who haven’t reached a postseason since 2015 — the Braves already are a playoff-caliber team. And the Braves are loaded with dynamic young position-player talent, led by 2018 National League Rookie of the Year Award winner Ronald Acuna Jr. The Braves’ payroll also is in fantastic shape; even after signing Donaldson ($23 million) and catcher Brian McCann ($2 million), they have a bunch of money to spend on free-agent pitching.

3. Donaldson has a good relationship with Braves general manager Alex Anthopoulos. As Toronto’s GM, Anthopoulos acquired Donaldson in a trade with Oakland before the 2015 season. And in some ways, that deal was a career-changer for Donaldson, who thrived in his new setting. Donaldson won the ’15 American League MVP award after blasting 41 homers, 41 doubles, driving in 123 runs and slugging .568, with 8.7 wins above replacement.

4. If you’re a right-handed batter like Donaldson, then Atlanta’s SunTrust Park is a more favorable park for hitters than Busch Stadium in St. Louis. In the two years of games since SunTrust opened at the start of the 2017 season, righty batters have a .406 slugging percentage, .728 OPS and .150 ISO there. During the past two seasons at Busch, righties have a .371 slugging, .670 OPS and .130 ISO. Big difference. If Donaldson wants to re-establish his value after two injury-plagued seasons, it’s a smart strategy to take half of his at-bats at a home yard that will buff up his power stats, not depress them.

5. Donald’s appreciation of the Braves’ training staff was a strong consideration. When coming to Atlanta, Anthopoulos recruited members of the Toronto training staff to join him with the Braves. That meant a lot to Donaldson. “They know how to keep me on the field,” Donaldson said during Tuesday’s news conference.

6. If there’s a spot where Donaldson wants to live, and play, and stay — Atlanta fits. He’s already expressed the desire to end his career as a Brave. “I’m not somebody who wants to bounce around,” Donaldson said. “I would hope that this could be the last place that I play. That being said, that’s not what I focus on. I’ve never really focused on free agency and any stuff like that. I’ve focused on going out there and helping my team win ballgames and helping my team become better.”

Of course, with the Braves anticipating the arrival of heralded third-base prospect Austin Riley in late 2019, or 2020, a long-term deal for Donaldson isn’t realistic. But things can change.

Honestly: Given all of the personal, sentimental, and baseball-related reasons that pulled Donaldson to Atlanta, why would anyone believe that the Cardinals had an edge over the Braves in the competition for J.D.?

If Donaldson wanted to be in Atlanta, it doesn’t mean the Cardinals screwed up.
It means that Donaldson wanted to be in Atlanta, playing in a home yard that’s a two-hour drive from where he played college baseball.

Now let’s get back to the Cardinals.

Mozeliak has said that he’d like to add a left-handed bat — though certainly would make an exception and bring in a right-handed hitter if it’s a coveted weapon (Goldschmidt?).

And if the Cardinals really coveted Donaldson and wanted to get a jump in recruiting him, they could have acquired him from Toronto for a cheap price in August. But the Cardinals didn’t do that. In fact, the Cardinals could have secured Donaldson another way, by putting in a waiver claim, but passed. Cleveland circled back and landed Donaldson in a trade for a relatively minor return. We can debate the merit of the Cards’ decision to bypass Donaldson.

I’m in the camp that believes they should have gone for it. With the team in a race for an NL wild card spot, why not take a flyer on Donaldson? True, he hadn’t played since late May because of a strained calf muscle, but healed in time to contribute to the Indians. Small sample alert: In 60 September plate appearances for the Indians, Donaldson batted .280 with a .400 OBP and .520 slugging percentage.

By declining to put in a waiver claim for Donaldson, the Cardinals indirectly sent a message. They weren’t going to bother with the ritual of getting Donaldson in St. Louis for a month as a way to sell him on the idea of signing with them at season’s end. And if the Cardinals stayed out of a low-cost Donaldson game in August, then why would they leap into a higher-cost Donaldson bidding in late November?

I’ve heard from quite a few of you that offer this counterpoint: If the Braves offered $23 million, the Cardinals should have thrown $25 million, maybe $27 million, at Donaldson. Fine. But again, there were other reasons that went into his decision that had absolutely nothing to do with money. In a one-year pillow deal, Donaldson clearly deemed it best to be a Brave, best to link to his childhood and near his SEC roots, best to be reunited with his former GM and the Toronto trainers, best to take his offense to a hitter-friendly environment.

Perhaps the Cardinals had — and still have — bigger plans in mind.

One would assume so.

One would hope so.

If not, then the DeWitt-Mozeliak critics will be proven right.

Let's take all that at face value.

Donaldson wants to be a Brave and the Braves want him there until Riley is ready.

The Braves have a REALLY nice fit for the Cardinals in Johan Camargo; nice young 3b who profiles as a long-term plus defender. He has good strike zone and contact skills and 20+ HR power. More critically, he's a switch hitter with no discernible platoon splits.

A good organization sees Donaldson to the Braves not as a miss, but as a MAJOR opportunity. Get the Braves on the horn and see what it would take to get Camargo out of there. See if Tyler O'Neill gets it done. Hell, the Braves badly need a long-term catcher and everyone wants arms - how about Kelly and Hudson?

There's a fantastic fit available to the Cards at 3b who is cost controlled. If Mozeliak had any stones at all, he'd be working that deal right now; he'd get it done, move Gyorko to backfill the arm lost in the trade and get Harper signed w/ the excess cash he frees up by getting a cost-controlled option at 3b.

The problem is that this organization is just flush out of ideas.

The Athletics coverage of the Cardinals is worth $2.00 a month by itself.

You wouldn't have Fowler in RF if you were able to get Harper. It would mean Carp at 3B (which would suck), but you would be average to above at most of your other positions. It would also mean you would probably need to find a home for Gyorko and J. Martinez. We are stuck with Fowler at least as a bench bat.

I'm so damn annoyed by them that I haven't read that tab in months.

The Athletic has pretty much become the Seth and Nate show for me at this point. It's not their fault; the coverage is still really good. But the Blues can bite me, the Lakers writers are pretty repetitive and Mizzou's stuff is still getting going.

I said the Braves 3B was a good trade in the off season at the end of the season. We could get him for expendable parts. His upside is very high compared to Kelly/Hudson’s ceilings.

Bernie has become a bitter old man since leaving the Dispatch.

Or he doesn't have to be as politically correct and tow the company line like he used to.

beat writers are a dying breed for a reason. They rarely criticize anything or anyone except in a general way. They are aware of troubles in the locker room or between players/managers but don’t say shit. I don’t want housewives of the locker room gossip or this player doesn’t like this players music or trivial shit.

But, they should have reported that Fowler and Matheny hadn’t spoken in months. That Matheny doesn’t respond to concerns from most players. Players has quit talking to him except for an occasional text. They only say that shit after he’s Gone.

You misspelled 'reporter'.

Dude was a paid shill prior to leaving the PD. At least he finally provides meaningful information again.