Wow - impressive.

You should extend him...

Probably just platoon him with Almora in CF or eat half his contract and trade him for a lottery ticket to sign Harper.

But who will give his speeches?

I don't think anyone can replace Heyward's speech. It's going into the Cubs HoF.

Not that anyone cares.....but there isn't a Dodgers thread or anything (for obvious reasons)......but blow this shit up. Let Kershaw and Machado walk. **** this shit.

Dewitt needs to open up the wallet. 3 million thru the turnstiles. Baseball Village is making tons of money. Great cable TV deal. Money is up from MLB. Multiple Reputable outlets reported that we offered Stanton $310 million. That’s on top of trading young talent. There is no excuse. He needs to open up the wallet wide.

3 years of no playoffs. I bet their bottom line will finally suffer unless they do something big this off season. Mo needs to change his negotiating strategy. The fans are not going to tolerate we were close BS. We gain $20 million yearly additional cap room with the end of Waino’s contract. There is no reason whatsoever the Cardinals can’t raise the payroll another $20 million.

Harper has in the past made several positive comments about the Cardinals and their fans. We may be able to entice him to play here. Mo needs to publicly, via a leak to reputable journalist, offer this tomorrow. The fans will know your serious. Other teams too. Sure some team may try to run up the money to **** with the Cardinals but they did this to them self’s by trying to be incremental in the off seasons. It’s past time to go big.

10 years/$350 million guaranteed contract
5 year opt-out clause at age 31

We get his best prime years if he leaves, he gets family generational changing money.

If some other team offers him the same deal, you go to $400 million. They have put themselves in this position. They need to be bold and take the risk.

It won't happen, but I agree go big and give it a shot. It is the one upside bat that makes the most sense. I would be okay with an infield of Gyorko/DeJong/Wong/Carp with Ozuna/Bader/Harper and ONeill as the 4th outfielder. It doesn't make sense to keep Fowler if you actually somehow pull off this signing.

Lots of chatter about Harper's fit in St. Louis, so naturally someone will swoop in at the last second and offer just more than we did!

John Mozeliak has demonstrated an extraordinary aptitude for appearing to try to sign marquee players but knowing exactly how far he can go to come up short.

I LOVE Bryce Harper. He's one of my favorite players in baseball (odd defensive collapse this year notwithstanding). But there's not a chance in hell Mozeliak demonstrates the stones to actually close the deal there.

He'll come up short and then talk about how they need that dry powder to re-sign Ozuna. And how they fully expect Dex to come back healthy and provide the team with that lefthanded bat they were really missing in September...

Derrick Goold said on a podcast that he heard the Cardinals are at the top of his list. When asked where this information come from he said it wasn’t from the Cardinals or anyone associated with the Cardinals.

He said Harper just likes to go home after the game and be with his family and watch Netflix. He said that bottom line was that Harper saw the Cardinals and St. Louis as a good fit but doesn’t mean it’s just a matter of AAV and years on the contract. Boras expects there will be multiple team visits to set the market.

After the Astros won the WS last season, Dallas Kuechel said that they weren't the Cubs.

Cubs were eliminated by the Dodgers in the Championship Series 4-1 the following year after their WS.

And well, the Astros just got eliminated 4-1 in the Championship Series.

Good luck on your next team Kuechel.

So to you guys that follow baseball a LOT closer than I do, not that that takes much, give me a some players that you think we will pursue this offseason. In this scenario I am assuming that we won't get Harper or Machado. The $$$$$ these guys will draw seems like it is something outside of the purview of how the Cardinals normally get FA players.

I just feel like the Phillies make too much sense for Harper. The only way the Phillies wont be the top bidder is if someone goes to a price they simply don't want to match.

Their middle infield is a log jam of prospects and unless Machado wasnt serious about playing SS and just wanted to increase his value, then he's probably option B.

Kind of hope the Cubs make a play for Cesar Hernandez. He sounded like he was expecting a trade and the Phillies gave Kingery a 6 year deal who is playing SS but is really a 2B. With Russell likely done as a Cub, Hernandez would fill the void at 2B and leadoff.

and your probably right. Philly is the consensus favorite. But, as I said the Cardinals can easily afford to increase their payroll $20 million a year. The issue for us is the owners and FO reluctance to get out of their comfort zone. To take a leap of faith. They are very risk adverse.

Your other hope could be that the Phillies wait for hometown boy Mike Trout in FA and pass on spending big this year, because it was honestly blind luck that team won 80 games.

They only have 2 quality starters, only 1 hitter that managed a .800 OPS with only 3 hitters in total grading out above average, with a fairly weak bullpen. They may opt to wait for guys like Sixto to be ready for the majors. But then again that would mean they pissed away $75M for Arrieta so I doubt that's their plan.

My thinking......

• Pay whatever it takes to land Harper
• Trade Carlos Martinez, Jose Matinez and Gyrko to Oakland for Chapman
• Or Trade Carlos Martinez and "others" in a package for one of ATL's two 3B.
• If the NL trade happens, trade Jose Martinez to the AL for some solid lefty middle relief help.
• Trade Fowler for whatever prospect or bullpen help you can get. Pay his salary as a performance sliding scale. May cost you the whole $50 million but you have to move on. O'neill is the 4th OF.

Carp
New 3B
Harper
Ozuna
DeJong
Molina
Wong
Bader
P

Munoz is your super utility player. Hicks is your closer

We have strong pitching in the playoffs in Flaherty and Mikolas. Maybe bring Reyes along slow so he can start late in the season and into the playoffs. Or if that doesn't work, we will need someone else to step up their pitching.

Chapman would be a nice addition, however I see no reason why Oakland would deal him. Carlos I think took a big hit in value by not returning as a starter. He will still generate interest, I'm just not sure it will be as much as it would have been had he returned to form as a starter this year.

The A's have K. Davis as their DH why would they want Jose?

If you are fortunate enough to add Harper, I wouldn't deplete strengths to fill perceived needs at 3B when we have two intriguing prospects to consider in 2-3 years.

I keep C. Martinez, especially if you are going after Harper. Unless you know he has blown out his arm completely, you can't get a starter of his quality for the 11 million per year we will be paying him for the next three years. Think about that, we paid more per year for Greg ****ing Holland!

Why would the A’s trade Matt Chapman when he has five years of control left and looks like a perennial Gold Glove winner, coming off a season where he was the best defender in baseball and also posted an .864 OPs? He was worth 8 rWAR this year. Especially considering Carlos Martinez is pricy (for the A’s) and inconsistent and the other pieces you’re offering there are just filler/roster garbage.

Makes no sense.

I don’t see Harper to St. Louis happening. Ultimately, Mozeliak will chicken out at the terms and length of the deal.

The Cardinals will add Josh Donaldson, I think, and otherwise sit basically right if he rebounds to form, that could even be the boost they needed to be a playoff team again.

Mozeliak missed badly on not paying a little more for Yelich vs Ozuna, though. Going to feel that one for a while. He could have been part of a really dynamic 1-2 punch.

Instead of back loading contracts (like Pujols) they should front load guys like Harper. Pay him 40 million up front for the first five years, give an opt out and a decreasing scale for another 5 years that gets him to 350+.

I just want to say **** the Red Sox.

I dont think $40M is a big enough "front load" to make a difference. He'll still be owed 150-200M after those 5 years and that's still too much money. There's likely no difference in his decision to opt out.

Maybe, honestly I'm okay going bigger than that on the front end. He is what 31 after a huge front loaded deal, barring a "Heyward" he's likely going to want another chance at a payday, or just trying to win, if it didn't work here.

Pay the man if he gives you a chance. We don't have anyone in the top 35 in salary. After Molina and Wainright (who drops off this year) we don't have anyone in the top 100.

Imos boy leading off for the Doyers :whackit: tonight

He just went deep ROFL

Freese with the Brewer-killing Cardinal mojo.....

Probably
I agree its a long shot. But, if you dont kick the tires, you wilil never know.
you forget about plan B? ATL has two quality 3B.

I dont think so. Mo has had enough of overpaying for 30+ aging and skill diminishing players.
By all accounts from EVERYONE was that Miami was unsure if they were going to trade Yelich. If they waited till Miami makes up their mind, they lose Ozuna. "A little more?" It would have took adding Flaherty to the package. Thats not "a little more" talent.

What was with Mo trashing Ozuna? Calling him out publicly? If he is not doing everything he can to get better, then why would any team want to give him a big contract next off season?


I certainty don't want a player that is not giving 100% when they are on the verge of getting generational changing money. What are they going to do when they get paid?


Hopefully O'neill will be ready to be an everyday player in 2020.

They could have gotten it done by adding Kelly or Bader and Weaver to Alcantara, IMO.

Re: don’t ask/don’t know on Chapman, if you do ask it needs to be a much stronger offer than offering them a less valuable, tremendously more expensive player with injury concerns and a couple of roster fillers.

ocity's boy might be on trade market as well - Paul Goldschmidt.

I would venture the Cardinals sign Donaldson though.

We are going to have to give up some serious talent to land Goldy for a one year rental? Then he's going to want to be paid at age 32 till at least age 37. No thanks.


Same issue with Donaldson. Older player wanting to be paid top $ in their late 30's.

Rosenthal says it would have taken Flaherty to make the deal. Also read some other national writer say the same thing, think it was Law? AND Rosenthal says Yelich wasn't available at the time and the Miami FO was set on keeping him at the time.

You probably forgot more about baseball this week than I know total. But, You cant just say throw in Bader and the deal is done when these national writers with good track records on the information that they post say Yelchich wasn't available and when he was that it would have taken Flaherty.

They weren't, Hou had a killer rotation this year. Cubs rotation was garbage.

Chapman is probably top-5 most valuable commodity in all of MLB, so obv that trade has less than 0% chance of happening. That said, the Cards really have no excuse not to spend some big coin this offseason. If they don't get a premium player their management is full of shit

So killer their result ended in the exact same way as the Cubs last season.

Sadly he may be a bit too old at this point for a long term we

I’d rather just throw everything at Harper and hope it turns out

BRC, here’s the deal with trading Flaherty or any pitcher. Who cares? This organization. Can draft and develop pitchers. We’ve seen that.

They can’t do it with bats.

No WS for you, Braun. Eat shit and die.

Looks like you are going to have to wait just a little bit longer to get your wish.

While i agree, **** boston and the doyers. Not watching a game of this bullshit.

There is a huge talent gap between Flaherty and the rest of the up and coming pitchers. You can win 85 games with average pitchers if you have a respectable offense. But, when you get to the playoffs and expect to win a series, you cant do that with #3/#4 pitchers.

Sure but there will always be another flaherty or whoever. They’ve shown they can consistently develop pitching.

I'll root for the Dodgers over Ryan Braun every time.

The Dodgers are just laundry and a little historical animus. Ryan Braun intentionally sought to ruin another man's life knowing he was full of shit the whole time.

I agree with you on Braun. He can get ****ed and i hope he never wins a WS and gets the Pete Rose treatment after he retires. I just don't care to watch payroll #1 do battle with payroll #3 for the championship.

Plus the one thing i hate more than Ryan Braun (or anything in sports) is the god damn Boston Red Sox.

Puig is an asshat, but at this point it's kind of like rooting for the Mujahedeen to kill the Soviets.

Not a very intriguing WS matchup. Sucks actually


But there will never be a worse one than 2000 "subway series". Didn't watch 5 seconds of that hot garbage and thankfully it ended wuickly

They’ll blow it. They always do.

Not sure if you can say they will blow it. The Red Sox are just a better team. If anyone is gonna blow it, its them.

I didn't give any NL team much of a chance after the first couple months of the season.

THIS! That was such a low life scumbag move that he should get ostracized by everyone.

And why didn’t he do this last year?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">St Louis Cardinals OF Marcell Ozuna is having a shoulder clean up procedure today in Los Angeles with Dr. Neal ElAttrache. Will be full go for Spring Training in February.</p>&mdash; Craig Mish (@CraigMish) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/1057377750791667712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 30, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Seeing tons of this type of comments on the internet and on podcasts.



The Cardinals have interest in multiple Boras clients, and they were described Wednesday by someone familiar with those talks as “a factor” in the courtship of the young slugger, in this Harper’s bazaar. The 26-year-old outfielder is intrigued by overtures from the Cardinals, multiple sources confirmed, and another source referred to the Cardinals as “in a better position than maybe they realize.”


Is this a Boras thing? or just another Cardinals PR "at least we tried" thing? Or could it be real?

Meh, we'll come in 3rd in the Harper signing and be excited about it.

Same as it has been

Rosenthal is saying today on The Athletic that Harper isn't currently in the Cards plans. :shrug:

Yeah, he says they're more interested in Goldschmidt

So am I.

one year rental of an aging 1st baseman? That we are going to have to give up prospects to get? Making our defense worse with moving Carp to 3rd?

Just sign Donaldson without giving up prospects if your going the overpay for an aging player route.

yeah, it would be a team changing move so of course it’s not going to happen. They need to offer $25-$50 million more than any other team. Make him say it’s you not the money.

Are you still holding the opinion that this front office is good? If so, stop.

Lame

This may be a critical offseason for the Cards. No playoffs the last few years and the fanbase is getting restless and craves a superstar. The team has the money and the need. If Mo does his usual airball instead of a slam dunk, it may start getting interesting in the next year or two.

I didn’t say they were good. I and BD were saying that they had this off season before we jump on the fire Mo bandwagon.

If it's taken up until this offseason for you to get on that bandwagon I guess, ride it out.

Any prediction on the used to be good two years ago reliever that STL will sign to a bad contract to carry on the tradition?

Greg Holland is available.

Buster Olney reports that the Cardinals are making a strong push to finish second in the Harper sweepstakes.

"Look Scott - you tell me how much I'll have to offer to almost sign this guy and I'll bail you out the next time you need a paycheck for one of those clients you oversell every year. We did you a favor with Holland - how 'bout you go ahead and tell me how much I'll have to bid to barely miss out?

I wonder if players were working out in the off season like this even 15 years ago?


<twitter-widget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-0" style="position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;" data-tweet-id="1061007816566206464"></twitter-widget><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Grooovin <a href="https://t.co/QeFNSqrwkh">pic.twitter.com/QeFNSqrwkh</a></p>&mdash; Harrison Bader (@aybaybader) <a href="https://twitter.com/aybaybader/status/1061007816566206464?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Maybe spend more time watching breaking balls in the dirt from righties.

Strength isn't his issue and it reminds me of what grichuk used to do and/or that year Winning was going to be a HR hitter. Work smarter, not harder. I just don't see how that kind of exercise can benefit him.

Besides, isn't that just a reality inefficient hang clean?

It's a winnable division if you do it right, and the Cubs just announced today they're putting Kris Bryant on the market.

doesnt he have 3 years left before FA? Why trade him now? I know it was a down year for him but if his shoulder is permantly damaged, what can you get for him? Seems like a case of the player being more valuable to you than other teams.

Buster Olney takes a general statement from Theo saying that they will listen to all trade offers and turns it into the Cubs are shopping Bryant and idiots take it to the bank.

maybe it was GM speak but he did reject long term contract offers, got the hitting coach fired and reportly clashed on how to rehab the shoulder.

Bottom line...... your “dynasty” ain’t happening.

Literally the only thing you just said that has any truth behind it is that it was GM speak.

The last statement is on track right now.

How so?

Theres one dynasty in baseball right now and that's Boston.

It took them 3 years to win their 2nd WS, 6 more years for their 3rd, 4 more years for their 4th.

In year 3 the Red Sox didn't even make the playoffs.

The Cubs are still the cream of the crop in the NL. They just need to stop ****ing around with the leadoff hitter. It's pretty clear what they've been missing since 2016 and that is the production that Fowler provided in the #1 spot. The only way they've been able to keep getting production from that spot is by dicking around with putting guys like Bryant and Rizzo there which completely ****s up the middle of the lineup where you would want those guys to be hitting.

I can't believe they weren't in on Mallex Smith. They have ties with Tampa and he just went for a package they could have easily afforded.

I realize to a Cub fan that one World Series win feels like a dynasty, but the rest of us have a considerably higher standard.

You keep stating they are the cream of the crop of the NL, yet the Dodgers have won the NLCS back to back.

They were loaded with expectations for their prospects, but that luster has dimmed considerably. They could still win it all, certainly in the discussion as baseball is a funny game, but they have have a lot of things go right to start talking dynasty.

Their "prospects" are still producing.

Bryant was hurt. Baez is going to be 2nd in MVP voting. Schwarber was close to his rookie numbers. Contreras is one of the best offensive catchers in the game. Rizzo wasnt in the prospect group but hes still a near lock for 30/100.

Russell and CF are really the only positions to have regressed.

Like I said, the lack of a true table setter since Fowler has hurt more than anything. The team continues to deny it's an issue by claiming they have one of the most productive batting lines from #1, which they do, but they ignore who they are using to get those numbers.

Well shoot if all that is holding you back from a dynasty is the absence of Fowler I am going to go out on a limb and say you can probably get him back for a case of sunflower seeds.

I still don’t hear any evidence other than armchair homerism about batting order that supports your assertion they are the cream of the NL.

Lester is no longer a #1, who know if Darvish will ever man up again. Hendicks Jeff Suppan act is starting to fade. Quintana? Meh okay. Young arms on the horizon? Not a whole lot to hang your hopes on there either.

Lol.

Homerism.

You're right. The Cubs are trash. They dont have the most wins in the NL since 2015.

Tell me about those higher Cardinals expectations of simply making the playoffs. Maybe they can sign a 2nd tier FA like Donaldson. Fingers crossed!

1 WS = Dynasty!!!!!!!!!!

The cards are averaging a WS appearance every 3.5 years since 2004.

Eat a bag of dicks.

Never said 1 WS was a dynasty.

Pay attention.