Yeah i don't know if it will work since he actually doesn't own the business anymore.

It seems like just a bad luck **** up.

Yesterday and this morning I donated a bunch of face masks that I imported to local nursing homes, hospitals, EMS etc. This afternoon the PPP was approved. Karma??
My small town bank seems to have been WAY more on top of it than most banks. This forgiveable loan is going to really help us through what's ahead. This is a huge weight off my shoulders. My crew is going to be okay financially.

My bank won’t even start trying to process the applications until Monday afternoon at the earliest. Assholes

Congratulations!! That’s awesome what you did for the hospitals!!

That's fantastic news!

My day started with a consultant of mine trying to help a client go through Bank of America for their PPP, only to be told the following via email from BoA rep (names have been removed for confidentiality purposes):

"I hope this finds you well & staying healthy! As we approach the application process which is said to be going live tomorrow (Fri 4/3) at 8am EST, I learned today that BofA, based on the guidelines of the SBA & the Treasury Dept, has 4 criteria in order for BofA to grant application access…1) have existing credit/lending relationship at BofA / 2) have existing deposit acct at BofA / 3) have all KYC/due diligence documentation on file at BofA and 4) have digital online access established at BofA. That said, I confirmed that [Your Business] does not have a credit/lending relationship. Do you have credit/lending elsewhere with another financial institution?"

This is a bold faced lie, and we spent the remainder of the day blasting and battling BoA, who eventually came back in the afternoon and said that they would change the policy on Monday (to which my response was "why are you waiting until Monday....this is a first come / first serve and limited resource package....you are screwing thousands upon thousands of small businesses and their employees!)

But I digress: At least BoA was taking applications (last I heard 85,000 worth approx. $22B).....I don't believe PNC bank (my company's bank) took a single application.

My sense with the big banks is that they are going to get 80 - 85% of the applicants and perhaps even larger share of the actual value of the loans. The SBA is backing this, but not forever, so their hang-up is "what happens with the unforgiven loans once the SBA backs out on unforgiven portions?" Given that there is virtually no due diligence requirements, it's not like the banks can vet the applicants, so there is risk associated there for them, and they have to work those details out.

So, BoA's requirement of only taking applicants that are existing credit customers gives them opportunity to vet the applications and ultimately role unforgiven debt into existing lines of credit. My beef is that (a) they lied and said it was SBA and treasury guidelines and (b) the program is first come / first serve w/ any eligible applicant needing only to go to an SBA lender. Otherwise, it makes perfect sense that they are hedging their (unknown) risk.

So the smaller banks, who are very likely not only going to get significantly less PPP activity, but also smaller loan values, are willing to take that risk. Why? Well, a loan that is under $350K carries a 5% application fee the SBA is paying to them. the fee % decreases with higher loan values, but they stand to make a lot of profit on the processing of the loans, with little risk on the back end of unforgiven loans. For that reason, I think the small banks are just fine with taking the risk in exchange for processing the loans

Big bank?

Couldn’t he have taken out an Eidl then rolled it into the ppp and then hire more “new” help and raise his payroll and still have gotten his ppp forgiven for the full amount?

Mililo,
Do you think the big banks will not be interested if the loans are under 100k since they get 5%?
I run 3 golf courses in Southern California for 3 different cities. Two of my contracts are pass through expenses. The employees work for me however I get reimbursed by the city for the cost of their payroll. I only applied for the 3rd course which is a completely different contract that is based on revenue share and I pay everyone with no reimbursement.
Just curious if it’s better or worse to have a smaller amount requested?

Banks won't care....and there will be plenty of PPP loans under $100K. for instance, as of today, BoA has processed 145K loans $30B...an average of $209K per loan.....certainly plenty of loans under $100K in that lot I'd imagine.

Per the treasury fact sheet - https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil...Fact-Sheet.pdf - all business can apply at any SBA lender (assumes eligibility is met). What the big banks are doing is limiting the applications to existing customers (which I have a problem with to a degree, because that's not consistent with what has been outlined and the program is first come / first served, but I understand their perspective)

At any rate, regardless of your payroll amounts, you should apply through your bank, because loan size is irrelevant....

Mililo, I talked to a buddy who's a banker about my issue with the other office. He is gonna talk to his SBA guy, he said he coudl go ahead and apply it and see what they say.

Counting on PPP loan to allow us to keep everyone paid and come out ok in about 6 weeks. Thankfully we were in pretty good shape when it started.

Edit: A complication is that we use Paychex for payroll services and a few months ago we switched to using Paychex HR services. Unfortunately that turned us into two different Paychex accounts and I'm still waiting on infor for the old one.

Overall, I'm still feeling confident.

It appears Bank of America reversed their policy and is allowing any business accounts to now apply after getting a lot of backlash yesterday. I'm going to start getting my application in now.

Had a quick question and was going to see if anyone was in similar situation or could link to any guidance. I'm an S-corp...I pay myself and employees a set salary and then I take a distribution at end of year with profit after expenses/overhead. Is K-1 money allowed to be used in your "monthly payroll x 2.5" calculation? I haven't seen anything specifically in my research...read a lot about salary, commisions, vacation/sick benefits, retirement contrib, etc. But I haven't seen anything specific about distributions. I know overall is capped at 100k, but I only pay myself a regularly small salary and take an amount equal to or larger as distribution every year.

I believe I've answered my own question in that any distribution is NOT able to be calculated. But if someone knows different, feel free to chime in.

They get 5%, but if they get the government money in 90 days, that's a 20% annualized return. They'll be all over that like stink on shit. I'm betting the layers are getting ALL the t's crossed and i's dotted to make sure asses are sufficiently covered.

No, K1 distributions are profits. Not payroll. This is the "paycheck protection program". Not "Profit Protection Program."

Here's one of many sources on this: https://youtu.be/Ge3alRZMClI?t=821

All of the SE taxes you've been saving over the years keeping your salary low and taking distributions should have helped you stuff cash reserves away to help prepare for things like this on your own.

I'm in the same boat. On one hand, it'd be nice if it was included. On the other, it makes perfect sense why it's not.

Has anyone who has applied for a PPP loan had it funded yet?

Approved but not funded. I'll update once it is.

that's great news....I think one lesson to take out of this is to keep being the aggressor....many people, including the bankers, don't seem to know, and I think the more you ask and press, the more likely you'll get things that you need....

From what I've heard, there are additional problems with feeding the apps from the banks to the SBA through whatever system they are using.

So, my question that I've been asking is "how do I know that it truly is first come / first serve" if none of the applications are going through? And just because you have the application in, doesn't mean it's been processed.

I'm not really sure there will be any way to stop these loan applications at $349B....not like this.

Comments are glorious...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What could the Paycheck Protection Program mean for your business? Our SBA expert Mark Baird walks you through it: <a href="https://t.co/e1NhN6jzQv">https://t.co/e1NhN6jzQv</a> <a href="https://t.co/5Tqn88Znw9">pic.twitter.com/5Tqn88Znw9</a></p>&mdash; Chase for Business (@ChaseforBiz) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChaseforBiz/status/1245848506490695683?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's their turn! BoA got blasted on Friday (rightfully so)....the other bigs are getting it this weekend....

Hey, anybody applying for the COVID-19 ECONOMIC INJURY DISASTER LOAN (EIDL) GRANT??

$10,000 each.

We are doing 5 applications. We outsource a great deal; so going for the fullEIDL made the most sense for four after if/when we receive any grants. One, with the most people, we are doing after the PPP $$ is received. We submitted two today. And the other two by Tuesday. One site stated they were funding in 3 days. Another stated 5 to 7 days.

I submitted mine this morning.

I submitted mine last Tuesday...

I would think you’d do it before the ppp and roll whatever more you get into the ppp and get it forgiven also possibly

And it’s “up to” 10 k. Whatever that means

That's an interesting question. I don't profess to know the answer BUT:

the loan forgiveness amount is simply the amount you paid in payroll, mortgage interest, utility payments, and rents. So, in theory, this makes sense, because the only real limiting factor is reduction in headcount, which your scenario raises headcount.

However, EIDL and PPP cannot be used for the same purpose, so I'd think you'd have to earmark EIDL funds for the expanded payroll, and PPP for current payroll....again, not sure how or if that would work.

I'll look into it and see if I can get a better answer for you....may take a day or two....

but doesn’t the ppp application worksheet have a spot to roll in eidl Loan money minus the 10k ?

The one my bank sent did.

Mine did too.

And it looks like adding capacity is a approved expense. He can’t add capacity if he didn’t add employees

Cool! No word of anything yet?

I called my Chase banker and Emailed her on Thursday to get going. My Chase banker Emailed me on Friday and said go to Chase online and get in the Que.
It wasnt an application, more of a put your hat in and we'll call you. It literally said not to call them or try to contact them.
This morning (Sunday) I received an Email letting me know they received it and will Email or call me with the next steps.

With time being crucial, I'm not very happy with Chase right now.

No word

SBA response on EIDL has generally come about 8-9 days after applying (generally)....I have not heard one instance of funding yet, even on the initial $10K grant.

Most of my clients are probably 1 - 2 weeks into the EIDL process, so hoping that we start hearing about fundings this week. It's the government, so I'm not going to hold my breath though....

I made my initial application last Saturday I think. They emailed me Monday night and said if I wanted the advance I needed to fill out another application and ask for it and give my banking info. It also said it wouldn’t show up the initial application process

Stay on top of your rep....the banks are hedging a little bit because there is some underlying uncertainly with the finer details. But you have to hold them accountable. They will get there so long as people keep voicing their concerns. The banks are putting their interest in front of the small business owner....understandable to a degree, but they need to step up!

Thanks for the information!

I have a request for everybody: I've tried my best to lay out what I know through this process as best I can and hopefully have put out some nuggets for people here....

My request is, as you all learn something on your end, please share with me (and the group here). I think there's been a lot of good stuff posted by everyone, and I take what I know to try to help other business owners with the same issues. The more I can arm myself with practice real world examples, the better I can be for everyone else. P.S. I always try to vet what I hear, so any bit of information is useful....

thank you all for your contributions here....it's greatly appreciated. You guys are doing great work and I appreciate it!

I couldnt agree more.

Chase helped me when other banks wouldnt and since then I have been extremely loyal. I have always felt like Chase was leading the business banking environment and would certainly be out front in an event like this.

I realize it just opened Friday and its still in the early stages but when I see how many loans have already been processed it causes me to get anxious about not receiving any help by being late to apply.

I will be in early tomorrow and plan to be all over my rep.

I also have a Personal Credit Union, think I may contact them if I dont get anywhere with Chase SOON.

I enjoy reading your input in this thread and appreciate all who have contributed.

Its funny when you tell someone you got a lot of this info from "Chiefs Planet". Love this place!

So true! But really, business is business, and (believe it or not), we have some really smart people here. If you can wade through the muck, there are definitely nuggets of gold in there somewhere.

And let's be honest: sometimes the muck is a little fun too....

I wonder how they come up with “ up to” 10k. How do they calculate how much you’d get? What about a loan amount? They never asked.

Cash flow per month? All they really asked was gross sales and cost of goods sold...

That's actually a question I've asked many times, and have not received an answer to. Unlike PPP, which has definition to the amount, EIDL is SBA discretion.

So here's what I think: years ago I was on the Mississippi Gulf Coast when the BP Oil Spill occurred. While the physical damage to the business was nothing, the economic impact was quite large.

The economic claims went through FEMA at the time, and it was a function of gross and net revenues before, during, and after the event. The business had to demonstrate the level of impact to FEMA to make the claim. So, I'm going to guess SBA EIDL will be similar. However, to date, there has been no guidance on this where even the FEMA claim under Deepwater Horizon had definition to the applicant.


EDIT: The EIDL is up to $2M, and the initial $10K is supposed to bridge that amount, and has effectively become a grant....I believe that it would be "up to" because the SBA determines that the economic impact is under $10K....should have read your post a little better....apologies.

US BANK:

Hi,

Thank you for your interest in the Paycheck Protection Program through U.S. Bank. According to your inquiry form, you are not currently a U.S. Bank customer.

At this time, we have emailed the application information to current U.S. Bank customers, beginning with single-owner businesses. That includes sole proprietorships, S-Corps, LLCs, and non-profits, but excludes independent contractors with only 1099 income at the moment. We expect to expand to all types of eligible businesses, independent contractors, multi-owner businesses and multi-owner non-profits in the coming days.

What does this mean for you?
We are building the process to accept applications from non-U.S. Bank customers who have businesses in states where we have branches. Non-customers will require additional, manual verification steps that will add time to the process. We expect to have more information about that process and requirements early next week.

Is there anything you can do now?
We have everything we need from you at this time. If you would like to learn more about U.S. Bank, please visit usbank.com. Please note that opening an account with us will not affect the PPP process.

We will update you again on Tuesday, if not before. For the most up-to-date information, please refer to usbank.com/ppp.

Question: Are you walking in off the street, or are you a US Bank customer?

The local branch manager has been bugging me to move business to her; so I applied.

The other two banks that I'm waiting on I already bank there.

EIDL grant states "Up to $10,000".

Anybody know the criteria for obtaining the full amount?

Thanks

I’m in the exact position you are as well. My bank is Wells Fargo and I’m still waiting to get an email with further instructions. I understand your frustration, it makes me nervous hearing about so many loan requests being excepted and still nothing from Wells Fargo!

I’d call her, but the reality, whether right or wrong, is that the big banks are only helping their own. That’s not the guidance they were given, it it’s what they are doing...

I heard rumor that WF was not going to take apps, it then I thought they had. I have no real evidence either way. At any rate, contact your relationship manager if you have one....

There is a letter up on the website that states they are now only going to issue up to 10B to businesses of 50 or less and non profits. They claim they have the capacity to loan 385B but they are under an asset cap which stems from the past leadership and there actions. They are going to donate all the proceeds from the loans they do fund to charity. You can find the letter on the WF website under small business.
I still qualify but I have a feeling they will go with mostly non profits!
Doesn’t sound good but I will keep my fingers crossed. I will continue to work the bank that I have my personal accounts with and see what happens there. As of Friday they still were not taking apps yet.

Sorry for slow response....been wrapped up this morning:

I guess it would depend on how much you want to push them, or if you'd rather go find another approved lender. If you want to push, use the below docs I've posted before:

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/fi...%20FINAL_0.pdf
https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil...Fact-Sheet.pdf


I'm re-attaching the SBA Final Rule and Treasury Fact Sheets:
1. any eligible participant (I'm assuming you are eligible) can go to any lender. You are eligible and you want to apply....WF is an eligible lender, they need to allow you to apply
2. First come / first serve program....make notes and records of who you talked to, the time that you talked. Ask if they are recording this call and to note the time stamp. Ask for a call transcript, because later on, if you didn't get your app in, you probably want documentation that you attempted to apply
3. It's a limited resource, so you would like to proceed immediately as to not miss out.
4. It's SBA backed and the diligence requirements / certifications are set. No guidances makes any record of having these additional requirements. Again, you are eligible and want to apply.

Cannot promise this gets you anything more than a "I'm sorry"....which then would lead down another path, but it may be worth trying. but you have to talk with somebody.....

It sucks for sure.....but WF (and the other bigs) are trying to protect their own butts on this...

Well shit. Apparently there are gross revenue limits based on the type of business. Farmers is 750K and that knocked me out. Never mind that my margins are ass but whatever. Better check with your bankers. It’s based off the industry code on your tax return.

that sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

Even for the EIDL?

I was in contact with a representative for a different reason and he played the "there's help coming" card, which lead me to believe there is something ag specific in the works.

I haven't received a response to my paragraphs of "**** your handout, we need change" response, so maybe he'll double down and let out some more details.

Ag is exempted from EIDL.

They threw some funding at CCC but I have no idea what that will look like.

Yeah. They threw some funding at CCC. The CLA blog I follow said it would be like MFP. But not like MFP. LOL.


I guess there is still LDP and all my shit is in PLC but I don’t remember what the limits are and the 2020 plc money will come in oct 2011.

Oh well.

My stuff isn’t urgent. Outside of this noise I wouldn’t get any revenue until July anyway but my margins were total ass before the end of the world, so things aren’t great. Especially with our weather pattern right now.

Supposedly there is a workaround in some language. No idea if it will fly but it’s out there.

If anyone else hits the gross revenue exemption here is the article.

https://blogs.claconnect.com/agribus...iness-concern/

Here is the actual paragraph in CARES act referred by the article...trying to decipher:

“(D) INCREASED ELIGIBILITY FOR CERTAIN SMALL BUSINESSES AND ORGANIZATIONS.—

“(i) IN GENERAL.—During the covered period, in addition to small business concerns, any business concern, nonprofit organization, veterans organization, or Tribal business concern described in section 31(b)(2)(C) shall be eligible to receive a covered loan if the business concern, nonprofit organization, veterans organization, or Tribal business concern employs not more than the greater of—

“(I) 500 employees; or

“(II) if applicable, the size standard in number of employees established by the Administration for the industry in which the business concern, nonprofit organization, veterans organization, or Tribal business concern operates.

Submitted the PPP today with the credit union we primarily do business with. No confirmation of receipt.

Submitted two EIDL grants over the weekend. Receipt with submittal. No response yet. Not expecting. Don't know if they will responded within 3 days; or that they will fund within 3 days after a phone call interview.

We read somewhere that the SBA is giving $1,000 per team member claimed up to 10. Have not been able to confirm that.

That 1k doesn’t make any sense...

Bank said the gross revenue limit has been removed.

The CEO at the coop said theirs was limited out too. Their payroll number matters far more than mine does.

YAY!!! Good luck!

Chase finally opened up today for submitting applications.

Just got done with mine. Sure hope it comes through quick. My business is down over 60% the last two weeks with no sign of improving anytime soon.

Yeah we’re at least there.

Doesnt help to be essential if no one is bringing there vehicles in. I was Thankful at first and we were actually doing OK but once the stay at home order started, whoa, it turned off quick.

You landlords that filed the EIDL, what did you put in the "cost of goods sold" line?

The property value??

None; I struggled with that. COGS for real estate leasing???? I put zero.

it will ask you what industry...I put real estate; then leasing...if I remember correctly.

Nah. Rental isn’t going to have COGS unless you inventory something.

I shut it down yesterday and furloughed everyone including myself. I couldn’t expect ownership to keep funding payroll with no work being done and no revenue being generated. I’ve applied for both EIDL and PPP so we will see what happens. Sucks. First time I’ve been unemployed in 32 years and unemployment is a major league hot mess in FL. Website looks like something from circa 1998 geocities.

It would not let me submit the form with entering a figure.

****. I didn't think about entering "0" . I'm a GD dumbass.

So, I applied for the EIDL today and there wasnt anywhere to ask for an amount?

There was a box to check if you are interested in the quick 10K but thats it.

Does anyone know if they use a formula to determine how much you qualify for or maybe they ask you later how much you want?

They do have formula they use once they receive the next round of data they will request. The 10K is seperate from those calculation.

No one has stated what "up to 10K" means. Some talk on the street is that you get $1K for every employee stated in your initial app. Hope that is wrong.

Had a client today that state he received confirmation from SBA on loan approval, and the bank has final signature documents. I personally have not seen this, nor has my field guy, so I'm skeptical that this is the final step to funding (we're trying to get a copy of this doc to see what it says), but if this is true, this is VERY impressive work by the SBA. Again, skeptical that this isn't simply more underwriting documentation from his bank, but again, would be very impressed if what he says is true....

Wow, that would be impressive. Was that for the PPP or the EIDL?

PPP

Dad and my buddy at the coop said theirs were both approved today. I worked all night so kind of slept all day so I didn’t call my bank.

My bank told me that they anticipate being able to fund my loan tomorrow or Friday.

Ours told us this morning that they think they'll have us funded by mid-week next week. 'round $800K.

From application to funding would be about 10 days if that comes to fruition.